Dennis and Chris

[mezzoforte]

Originally Posted by ButterCookie

I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, I think it was pretty normal to be even just a little homophobic in the 60s/70s right? Maybe not but it's nice to convince yourself.

I'm sure Lisa and I discussed the point she made about girls lining up for her because they fancied her and I'm sure the word "lezzie" was used. To be honest, if it were the other way round and she were gay and there were men lining up who wanted a bit she'd probably just as disagreeable on the matter. Lord knows I would and am. I hope that she said it because she wouldn't know how to react. It could also be possible she made the "dykey" comment because she didn't want it to affect her career, couldn't it? Maybe she thought that if her fans thought she was a lesbian that they wouldn't want anything to do with her, again, given the time period in which she said it.

If you ever find yourself wondering just how different the climate was in the 70s, consider the Halloween John went as a nazi, Christine in blackface as Aunt Jemima
Shocking (as is homophobia), but since I wasn't around at the time and don't really have the context I try to convince myself that I can ignore it and that Chris has always been just as socially liberal as I want her to be.

[CreepingDeath]

Originally Posted by mezzoforte

If you ever find yourself wondering just how different the climate was in the 70s, consider the Halloween John went as a nazi, Christine in blackface as Aunt Jemima
Shocking, as is homophobia, but since I wasn't around at the time and don't really have the context, I try to convince myself that I can ignore it, and that Chris has always been just as socially liberal as I want her to be.

And in the midst of it all, Lindsey as a most unfitting priest.

[kick.inside]

Originally Posted by mezzoforte

If you ever find yourself wondering just how different the climate was in the 70s, consider the Halloween John went as a nazi, Christine in blackface as Aunt Jemima
Shocking (as is homophobia), but since I wasn't around at the time and don't really have the context I try to convince myself that I can ignore it and that Chris has always been just as socially liberal as I want her to be.

Those Halloween pictures are just awful.
Chris has always seemed very liberal to me, actually. I don't know how liberal she actually is, but she seems like it.
On the other hand, there are some things she seems very shy about. For example, she was embarrassed to use the word "dildo" in an interview around the time of ITM. Maybe that's just English propriety, though.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by kick.inside

Those Halloween pictures are just awful.
Chris has always seemed very liberal to me, actually. I don't know how liberal she actually is, but she seems like it.
On the other hand, there are some things she seems very shy about. For example, she was embarrassed to use the word "dildo" in an interview around the time of ITM. Maybe that's just English propriety, though.

Which interview was that? dildo?

[kick.inside]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Which interview was that? dildo?

Eek, took me awhile to find it because I couldn't remember which interview it was from.

"Jeremy Spencer was vulgar and rude but funny. Used to come onstage and do things with a...well, you know," she wrinkles her nose leaving me to supply the missing word ‘dildo’.

Here's the whole thing -
http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.ph..._v2&id=926&c=2

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by kick.inside

Eek, took me awhile to find it because I couldn't remember which interview it was from.


Here's the whole thing -
http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.ph..._v2&id=926&c=2

oh yeah!!!! lol awesome11

[Fannymac]

I remember being at a Beach Boys concert....Dennis was drunk out of his mind, and at one point start to verbally bash Stevie and "praise" Christine.....he basically tried to drag her up on stage, but she refused. Even with her sitting down in her seat, you could FEEL her embarassment!
There was NO WAY the relationship would EVER last!

[jbrownsjr]

are you sure that wasn't homer/ lol

[jellyman10]

It is a constant source of cognitive dissonance to me that, as much as love and admire Fleetwood Mac, the women have chosen to liaise themselves with some absolutely massive bawbags. I swear, Dennis Wilson makes Joe Walsh look like a rank amateur, in the matter of disrespecting, abusing and generally demeaning someone who is in every way his superior. All I can say is that Chris and Stevie's panties must've been running the show for many years, until they wore out and they had to deploy the flimsier tissue of their brains. I cringe for them. Dreadful, dreadful men, and they chose them. I am speechless - but most of the time I just pretend it didn't happen and that they're actually the strong, independent artists that I want them to be.

Loz

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by jellyman10

It is a constant source of cognitive dissonance to me that, as much as love and admire Fleetwood Mac, the women have chosen to liaise themselves with some absolutely massive bawbags. I swear, Dennis Wilson makes Joe Walsh look like a rank amateur, in the matter of disrespecting, abusing and generally demeaning someone who is in every way his superior. All I can say is that Chris and Stevie's panties must've been running the show for many years, until they wore out and they had to deploy the flimsier tissue of their brains. I cringe for them. Dreadful, dreadful men, and they chose them. I am speechless - but most of the time I just pretend it didn't happen and that they're actually the strong, independent artists that I want them to be.

Loz

Agree... but you can be strong, independent as an artist and still suck and picking men... (i'm looking in the mirror) lol

[mezzoforte]

Originally Posted by jellyman10

It is a constant source of cognitive dissonance to me that, as much as love and admire Fleetwood Mac, the women have chosen to liaise themselves with some absolutely massive bawbags. I swear, Dennis Wilson makes Joe Walsh look like a rank amateur, in the matter of disrespecting, abusing and generally demeaning someone who is in every way his superior. All I can say is that Chris and Stevie's panties must've been running the show for many years, until they wore out and they had to deploy the flimsier tissue of their brains. I cringe for them. Dreadful, dreadful men, and they chose them. I am speechless - but most of the time I just pretend it didn't happen and that they're actually the strong, independent artists that I want them to be.

Loz

Hmm, this seems kind of disrespectful of Stevie and Christine. Chris planned to marry Dennis, and Stevie's spoken very convincingly about how she and Joe "just got each other." Who are we, not having met any of the people involved, to presume that these significant relationships were in fact nothing more than panties aflame?

Of course, there's no denying that Dennis had many flaws--his use of Chris's funds is absolutely maddening, and apparently he was something of a homophobe. But I don't doubt that he also had extraordinary qualities. I have to think CAH captured Dennis pretty well--as magnetic and charming as he was irresponsible. Storms may have had many flaws, but I really appreciated her memories of Dennis because I could really see why Chris fell in love with him, and why it could never have worked.

A few crazy, roller coaster years don't make Chris less of an independent woman or artist. I actually admire that she, nearing 40 and following a divorce, was open to this wild relationship.

[nicepace]

I disagree with the implication that Chris indulged in serial bad relationships. Both her marriages were good for a time, and neither of the men she married was a scoundrel. I'm no expert on her personal life, since I mainly pay attention to the music, but it seems to me that she had some good luck, some bad, in relationships, and much of that may have been due to the unstable lifestyle of being in a wildly successful rock band.

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by mezzoforte

Hmm, this seems kind of disrespectful of Stevie and Christine. Chris planned to marry Dennis, and Stevie's spoken very convincingly about how she and Joe "just got each other." Who are we, not having met any of the people involved, to presume that these significant relationships were in fact nothing more than panties aflame?

You're right. I am exactly talking about the aspect of these two women that I find it impossible to respect, ergo it is disrespectful. Sorry, but there you go. I have read remarks on this board that make what I said look like a mash note, but by all means pick on this.

As for who I am to presume anything? I'm no one, of course. All I can say in explanation is that when I was an undergraduate studying English Lit, it was a source of amazement to me that people could spend an entire career studying the characters in, say, the novels of Thomas Hardy. Decades. Decades of full-time, prestigious work spent probing into the motives and psychology of people that Hardy had made up!

I don't apologise, therefore, for being interested in CM and SN as women, as artists, as women-artists, as icons, and as people. I do apologise for the fact that I could have phrased my speculation more politely.

I'll shut up now.

Loz

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by nicepace

It seems to me that she had some good luck, some bad, in relationships, and much of that may have been due to the unstable lifestyle of being in a wildly successful rock band.

I'm sure you're right. There are quite a lot of women in rock who 'end up' single, though, so it must in some ways go with the territory. I guess the legit interesting question I'm trying to probe is why that should be the case? Genuinely sorry if you find that irrelevant/annoying/distasteful. I'm just thinking.

Loz

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by kick.inside

Eek, took me awhile to find it because I couldn't remember which interview it was from.

Here's the whole thing -
http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.ph..._v2&id=926&c=2

That's one of my fav interviews of a Mac member. It's just so honest, straightforward, and revealing. I have to admit that it's a bit tough to navigate all the British slang & colloquialisms, though. Makes me wonder if Brits have a hard time reading some American interviews of Mac members?