"Peacekeeper" vs "Thrown Down": Which is the hit?!

[golddustwoman77]

Originally posted by estranged4life
neither...I think the record label should release a single that has both Lindsey & Stevie singing (i.e.-"Thrown Down") but with a more upbeat rocking sound (i.e.-"Go You Own Way"), Just my opinion...Brian J.

That was my thoughts exactly! I think that the single will be better received if it is a single that shows off Lindsey and Stevie's harmony, not a slow song, but an upbeat, rockin' song that will get people's attention with awesome vocals/harmony and kick- @ss guitar, bass, and drums! That would totally rock.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
"Peacekeeper" does have a fantastic chorus, but I me, it has the same feel as "Little Lies" almost... and it seems to stick with you long after you've heard it.

I don't know about that, Johnny. Of course, you and I could argue about this without ever giving an inch because we're both biased. What we need is an unbiased panel to solve these conflicts!

In general, when I think of all the Fleetwood Mac songs that have gotten some airplay, I would say Stevie's songs have the weakest choruses. Of course a handful of them have great choruses, including Stand Back, Rhiannon and Dreams. Take Sara, what exactly is the chorus in that song? Yet it doesn't matter with Sara because the song as a whole is beautiful. Or even Gypsy, quite possibly my favorite Stevie tune with Fleetwood Mac. Yes there is a chorus there, but what words really stand out? I'd say, "She was just a wish" and "To the gypsy that remainsm," but they are not a standout chorus in the traditional sense. Those Stevie songs are more about the overall vibe, not the chorus.

Strong choruses in my opinion include:

Go Your Own Way
Don't Stop
Tusk (not really a chorus, more of a refrain)
Little Lies
Everywhere
I Wish You Were Here
Big Love
Peacekeeper
Seven Wonders (as much as I hate to admit it, that less-than-great song has a pretty nifty chorus that sticks with you... or to you, as it were.)

Originally posted by CarneVaca
...they are not a standout chorus in the traditional sense. Those Stevie songs are more about the overall vibe, not the chorus.

true...there are a lot of songs that don't really have any pronounced choruses...some of them are either instrumental or a series of chord changes (little if any vocals)or just nothing at all:

Sisters of the Moon
Straight Back
Honey Hi
Fireflies
The Farmer's Daughter
Never Make Me Cry
That's Enough For Me

I can't think of any others offhand...some are not really choruses but may have a la la la thing going on or a note that's held...or they're just plain and simple vague cause they seem to run right into the verses such as:

Brown Eyes (sha la la sha la la etc...)

Second Hand News (bam bam bam bam etc... although one could argue that "when times go bad, times go rough, won't you lay me down in the tall grass and let me do my stuff" is the chorus but it also kind of blends into the verses)

Gypsy (no real "chorus" although one could argue that "and you see your gypsy...you see your gypsy" is kind of a chorus but, again, it kind of just blends in with the other verses)

The Ledge

any others???

i finally downloaded "Peacekeeper" last night. I really like it. I think it's a strong song musically. Lyrically, when i read it, i wasn't blown away at all but i don't expect that from Lindsey. I've never regarded him as a great writer which is ok cause it's not why he's here. He's a great guitarist and arranger and my first guitar teacher...i love his finger picking style and always have. you don't hear a lot of that in rock and roll.

Anyway. i like the song. I really can't get into these deep discussions about whether it's going to be the first single or what is cause i need to hear the entire album in completion. However, I personally think that "Peacekeeper" has given "Thrown Down" a sort of boost. I know we aren't 100% sure what songs are even going to be on the album but after i played "Peacekeeper" i played "Thrown Down" and i liked the combination of the two.
That's why it's easier to like a song when you've heard the entire album. All the songs influence one another.

[blinker12]

I think it's true that a lot of Stevie's songs don't really have recognizable choruses... but that makes it even cooler, IMO, that she's had hits with them. She breaks the mold a bit.

Choruses are common in contemporary pop songs, but they're not necessary for a song to work well.

A lot of Dylan's songs, for example, don't have choruses _ especially the early stuff ("Boots of Spanish Leather," "Positively 4th Street"). Yet the songs are still brilliant and catchy.

Also, the classic songwriters of the early part of the century (Gershwin, Porter, Ellington) didn't write "choruses" in the sense that we think of them today. There was repetition in the music and lyrics, but it was more subtle than what you'll hear in a pop chorus.

I'm not saying Stevie's in the same league as Gershwin (or even Dylan) _ she doesn't have enough musical knowledge. But I think it's cool that she doesn't "write to formula."

Just some observations.

[Sorcerer386]

With the point of choruses in Gypsy and Sara, there really aren't choruses too much lyrically, but musically there are, especially in Sara. If you put aside the lyrics to Sara, you really see that's it's not too much of a complicated song. Sara actually starts out with the musical chorus, as "Wait a minute baby, stay with me a while, said you'd give me light, but you never told me about the fire" is the same as "Said Sara, you're the poet in my heart, never change, never stop" and then there's added "but now it's gone..." But you can sing "Wait a minute baby..." right along when Stevie is singing "Said Sara," you just kind of have to find how it fits. And then, the chorus returns with "...in the sea of love, where everyone would just love to drown." It's subtle, but it's there.

I also think the guitar hook in Thrown Down is catchier...but don't confuse that with "better."

As far as assuming FM will redo Lindsey's songs, I don't think they'll "redo" very many of his songs at all. They may add or change a few things here and there, but Lindsey is pretty much his own producer, as we know. I just think Peacekeeper has more energy than Lindsey is giving us, A LOT more. And if Stevie and Lindsey are wailing at each other in this song, that'd make it all the better...it's definitely that kind of song, almost like The Chain or Go Your Own Way. Lindsey's singing is lazy on the version we have (he sounds a little flat to me), and for these reasons I'm HOPING they do more with it, but not assuming it.

[Johnny Stew]

Dangit! I'm starting to think I don't make myself clear enough when I write! *lol*

I wasn't meaning to imply that a song HAD to have a chorus, or that if it didn't have one, it's no good.

I'm just thinking in terms of what tends to stand out to people, and in terms of which songs Fleetwood Mac has had the biggest hits with. And with a few exceptions, FM's biggest hits have always had strong, catchy choruses.
Something you're gonna turn up as you're driving in your car, and will be singing to yourself hours later.

"Peacekeeper" definitely has a terrific chorus, and I love it... it just seems to me that the chorus to "Thrown Down" is the one that becomes a bit more ingrained in your subconscious.

I'm also going by what I *assume* people are going to want to hear on the radio from Fleetwood Mac, after all these years of them being away... and I'm thinking they'll want something that is instantly recognizable as Fleetwood Mac, and again, I think "Thrown Down" fits that niche a little better than "Peacekeeper."

But that... as always... is just my very humble opinion.

As for any biases... quite frankly, I'd be so happy to hear a new Fleetwood Mac song playing on the radio right now, I wouldn't care if *John* was singing the lead.



Johnny Stew