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  #181  
Old 02-21-2019, 01:56 AM
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HomerMcvie HomerMcvie is offline
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
In 1997 he wasn’t married with children yet.
Well, when I said 1997, I meant from the reunion, ALL the way up until they fired him.

Them holding hands, pretending to still be in love. It was completely insulting to Kristen, and just disgusting for everyone else, from a PR point of view. Except, of course, for idiots that lap it up.
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  #182  
Old 02-21-2019, 02:18 AM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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I don’t think it was insulting to Kristen or that holding hands is that big a deal. I don’t think the suggestion of ongoing passion was that obvious, except for those looking for it. I think you were a closet shipper, David. Thst’s why every glance had such an impact on you.

I think some of Lindsey’s song lyrics, like Castaway Dreams, could have bothered me, if I were in Kristen’s place, though.

But stage wise, I think the most mushy they got was at the end of Sara. They played things up to spark audience reaction and Lindsey conceded it when he said Mick and Stevie had a plan to push their mics closer together.

Yet, going back to Disney’s Going Home, they were holding hands at the Clinton event and that is before I think anyone thought to stage it. It just happened. Christine and John held hands as well.
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  #183  
Old 02-21-2019, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Oh, I know exactly when she was pregnant and when he was born and Stella was born during the SYW tour.

I believe it was Ken who said that the first pregnancy was a surprise and Lindsey was not ready to become a father at that time and it was not until the baby was born that he fell deeply in love with it.
I'm still not exactly sure what happened during that time. Weren't Stevie and Lindsey kind of rekindling things? Or was that all purely for show?

Or, as it felt to me, maybe there was actual emotional connections being re-established between them... and that maybe they both wanted to possibly get involved again, but then realized they couldn't? Or wouldn't allow it? I don't know what i'm trying to say
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  #184  
Old 02-21-2019, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
I don’t think it was insulting to Kristen or that holding hands is that big a deal. I don’t think the suggestion of ongoing passion was that obvious, except for those looking for it. I think you were a closet shipper, David. Thst’s why every glance had such an impact on you.

But stage wise, I think the most mushy they got was at the end of Sara. They played things up to spark audience reaction and Lindsey conceded it when he said Mick and Stevie had a plan to push their mics closer together.

Yet, going back to Disney’s Going Home, they were holding hands at the Clinton event and that is before I think anyone thought to stage it. It just happened. Christine and John held hands as well.
Closet shipper? LOL. Now that's a first! Actually, I think when The Dance came around, was when my dislike for her began. Then, by SYW(I've never been a fan of it), I'd lost pretty much all respect for her. Monotonic singing, and lame assed songs. Even Lindsey couldn't save most of them.

It's a shame that they had to resort to theatrics, to sell their wares.

Christine and John are adults. There's a difference.
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  #185  
Old 02-21-2019, 02:31 AM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Originally Posted by mylittledemon View Post
I'm still not exactly sure what happened during that time. Weren't Stevie and Lindsey kind of rekindling things? Or was that all purely for show?

Or, as it felt to me, maybe there was actual emotional connections being re-established between them... and that maybe they both wanted to possibly get involved again, but then realized they couldn't? Or wouldn't allow it? I don't know what i'm trying to say
What they were doing that caught people’s attention wasn’t even on stage, IMO. It was in the interviews and that behavior they had in 1997 was different than what they displayed during subsequent tours.
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  #186  
Old 02-21-2019, 02:45 AM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
Closet shipper? LOL. Now that's a first! Actually, I think when The Dance came around, was when my dislike for her began. Then, by SYW(I've never been a fan of it), I'd lost pretty much all respect for her. Monotonic singing, and lame assed songs. Even Lindsey couldn't save most of them.

It's a shame that they had to resort to theatrics, to sell their wares.

Christine and John are adults. There's a difference.
I liked much of SYW and I loved Her Thrown Down and EFO, but the back-to-back tyranny of the dreadful Running Through the Garden and Silver Girl was a lot to overcome.

If Stevie did visit Lindsey during his recovery, I’d be very interested in her description of their time together. I trust she would not give him an iPod with downloads of her songs, as she does the soldiers. I remember when she discussed visiting Robin in the hospital in those final days, she made that all about herself, too. Although in that case, I think Robin could appreciate a little levity and lightness at that time as Stevie observed that her temperature was actually higher than Robin’s. I think if Macsters had gone to Lindsey soon after his surgery that they could have brought some happiness to him. Indon’t Mean declarations of love, just a spot of humor can be very healing.
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  #187  
Old 02-21-2019, 10:19 AM
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If Stevie did visit Lindsey during his recovery, I’d be very interested in her description of their time together. I trust she would not give him an iPod with downloads of her songs, as she does the soldiers.
Why not? The first three songs could be Twisted, Soldier's Angel & Without You.
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  #188  
Old 02-21-2019, 10:50 AM
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What they were doing that caught people’s attention wasn’t even on stage, IMO. It was in the interviews and that behavior they had in 1997 was different than what they displayed during subsequent tours.
Ugh, the intense scorn being heaped upon "shippers" (I've always despised that term) makes me loath to even post, but this. The conclusions being drawn from their behavior during The Dance were hardly being crafted from thin air. There were videos such as Landover, and other off-stage behaviors... not to mention their own words.

I am trying to convince no one, nor do I have any desire to enter into a debate. I know I am inviting ridicule from certain quarters. However, I felt the need to reinforce michele's perspective of what it was like back then.

Few would characterize me as a person lacking in discernment, yet I found sufficient basis for the belief that it was more than just a show.

It's hard to talk about it now. Indeed, I have no wish to do so. But the recent trend of ugliness directed at "shippers" has forced me to speak up.

It makes me want to change my avatar back to a Stevie/Lindsey moment just as a "thank you."
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Last edited by sodascouts; 02-21-2019 at 11:16 AM..
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  #189  
Old 02-21-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
I don’t think it was insulting to Kristen or that holding hands is that big a deal. I don’t think the suggestion of ongoing passion was that obvious, except for those looking for it. I think you were a closet shipper, David. Thst’s why every glance had such an impact on you.

I think some of Lindsey’s song lyrics, like Castaway Dreams, could have bothered me, if I were in Kristen’s place, though.

But stage wise, I think the most mushy they got was at the end of Sara. They played things up to spark audience reaction and Lindsey conceded it when he said Mick and Stevie had a plan to push their mics closer together.

Yet, going back to Disney’s Going Home, they were holding hands at the Clinton event and that is before I think anyone thought to stage it. It just happened. Christine and John held hands as well.
70% of Lindsey's songs are directed at Stevie. Not many are directed at Kristen. I'm not surprised she's not very fond of Lindsey's solo setlist.


Quote:
Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
What they were doing that caught people’s attention wasn’t even on stage, IMO. It was in the interviews and that behavior they had in 1997 was different than what they displayed during subsequent tours.
Exactly. And it was the same in during SYW. Stories from fans that witnessed their behavior when lights were out. And pics.


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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
I liked much of SYW and I loved Her Thrown Down and EFO, but the back-to-back tyranny of the dreadful Running Through the Garden and Silver Girl was a lot to overcome.

If Stevie did visit Lindsey during his recovery, I’d be very interested in her description of their time together. I trust she would not give him an iPod with downloads of her songs, as she does the soldiers. I remember when she discussed visiting Robin in the hospital in those final days, she made that all about herself, too. Although in that case, I think Robin could appreciate a little levity and lightness at that time as Stevie observed that her temperature was actually higher than Robin’s. I think if Macsters had gone to Lindsey soon after his surgery that they could have brought some happiness to him. Indon’t Mean declarations of love, just a spot of humor can be very healing.
I doubt she even called him....

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Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
Ugh, the intense scorn being heaped upon "shippers" (I've always despised that term) makes me loath to even post, but this. The conclusions being drawn from their behavior during The Dance were hardly being crafted from thin air. There were videos such as Landover, and other off-stage behaviors... not to mention their own words.

I am trying to convince no one, nor do I have any desire to enter into a debate. I know I am inviting ridicule from certain quarters. However, I felt the need to reinforce michele's perspective of what it was like back then.

Few would characterize me as a person lacking in discernment, yet I found sufficient basis for the belief that it was more than just a show.

It's hard to talk about it now. Indeed, I have no wish to do so. But the recent trend of ugliness directed at "shippers" has forced me to speak up.

It makes me want to change my avatar back to a Stevie/Lindsey moment just as a "thank you."
Count me among the fans that also believe it was not a show during The Dance. And not because of what happened at Landover, because that could have been staged, but you could see it in interviews, pics, behind the scenes. There was a look of adoration in Lindsey's eyes every time he looked at Stevie. And I don't think it was fake.

And that's why like you said, it's very hard to talk about it now, and to see how damaged their relationship is.

And it's not very hard, at least for me, to be mad at her.
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  #190  
Old 02-21-2019, 12:28 PM
luminol luminol is offline
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Originally Posted by mylittledemon View Post
I'm still not exactly sure what happened during that time. Weren't Stevie and Lindsey kind of rekindling things? Or was that all purely for show?

Or, as it felt to me, maybe there was actual emotional connections being re-established between them... and that maybe they both wanted to possibly get involved again, but then realized they couldn't? Or wouldn't allow it? I don't know what i'm trying to say
I understand what you're saying/feeling. When you're around an ex after an extended time apart there can be sparks and chemistry regardless, especially when you have such a (public!) history and everyone knows your dirty laundry. Even (especially?) if you're in other relationships, the sparks and flirtations are likely (even just innocent ones)... it almost emboldens you because you feel protected and safe in limited flirtations (I'm sure it was tough for Kristen but she also understands the history). Plus they knew the fans would go nuts. Solid mix of organic and staged chemistry.
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  #191  
Old 02-21-2019, 01:01 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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I doubt she even called him....


Yes, I’m sure no one called, no one emailed or texted and certainly no one visited. But while I think about Lindsey I also have to step back and wonder what John’s experience was. For me, they continued to look so upbeat after his cancer was announced that it made me feel they knew that it was not life-threatening. I made my prognosis about his condition from their behavior. But now that I know more about them, maybe they just didn’t care one way or another, if John lived or died and that’s why they remained so happy.
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  #192  
Old 02-21-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post

I am trying to convince no one, nor do I have any desire to enter into a debate. I know I am inviting ridicule from certain quarters. However, I felt the need to reinforce michele's perspective of what it was like back then.
I am an X-Files fan. I don’t hate the term shipper. There’s nothing shameful about it. I still embrace it and 1997 was magical.
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  #193  
Old 02-21-2019, 02:01 PM
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Yes, I’m sure no one called, no one emailed or texted and certainly no one visited. But while I think about Lindsey I also have to step back and wonder what John’s experience was. For me, they continued to look so upbeat after his cancer was announced that it made me feel they knew that it was not life-threatening. I made my prognosis about his condition from their behavior. But now that I know more about them, maybe they just didn’t care one way or another, if John lived or died and that’s why they remained so happy.
Well, in their eyes, almost everyone is replaceable
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  #194  
Old 02-21-2019, 04:09 PM
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What they were doing that caught people’s attention wasn’t even on stage, IMO. It was in the interviews and that behavior they had in 1997 was different than what they displayed during subsequent tours.
My mind always goes to this one when people talk about Stevie & Lindsey in 1997. I'm not going to claim to know what was in their minds and hearts at this point, but what they're saying about one another and their body language is certainly warmer than perhaps at any other point in the band's history? I agree that the stage stuff is easily manufactured, but this seemed genuine if only because weren't able to "fake it" this good before or since.

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  #195  
Old 02-21-2019, 04:19 PM
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Stevie and Karen thought everything Lindsey did was abusive. “Lindsey has requested that we turn the music down ...” They thought that was abusive.
Exactly lol. I don't doubt he was violent and verbally abusive in the past (granted she probably was as well), but I genuinely think it got to the point where it created such a sensitivity chip that any little thing he did was magnified. Like the stupid 'Bob Dylan' thing.
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