a difficult bugger?

[jbrownsjr]

Stevie and Lindsey's chemistry musically and romantically has drifted just about completely apart..

Whereas, Christine and Lindsey seemed to have grown even with dormant years and a sea between them. And I dare say they care about the band's creativity more than the other members.
I love that Lindsey has a solo album coming out as well. He's not hanging his hat on either of his careers. Admirable.

[JohnL]

Originally Posted by elle

^idk. your posts come across as angry and reading into lot of stuff that's not really there. and disrespectful to people and discussions here.

As I said, look in the mirror. Disrespect is this board's first name...not middle but first.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

They seemed to have moved past that by the time she got involved with SYW. She and Lindsey seemed to be in a better place.


Fleetwood Mac is a band,

Stevie has always had a hard time with this notion. Whereas Christine and Lindsey are more of a collaborative effort for the sake of the band. The band is where the magic happens, in my opinion.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by JohnL

As I said, look in the mirror. Disrespect is this board's first name...not middle but first.

Yet you act like you're so unhappy here.

According to your definition, you fit in perfectly.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Stevie has always had a hard time with this notion. Whereas Christine and Lindsey are more of a collaborative effort for the sake of the band. The band is where the magic happens, in my opinion.

I agree completely. Projects where all their individual solo crap Is just thrown in, is when you end up with SYW, or BTM. Collaboration is how they finesse the FM sound.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I agree completely. Projects where all their individual solo crap Is just thrown in, is when you end up with SYW, or BTM. Collaboration is how they finesse the FM sound.

Don't get me wrong. I love the three singers' solo work, too. And they even get magic there, too. It's just that when it comes time for the band, LB and CM know how to meld.

Seven Wonders came out amazing because of the background singing and guitar, keys, drums and bass. That synth is a really cool sounds. But really, that was sort of mailed in. SYW was a decent album, but it lacked that magic.

example: Illume.. great song.. Christine on it would make it a dream..

In my opinion, adding Christine to Crystal was the best thing that ever happened to that song. The keyboard solo at the end of the song rides off into the sea.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

They seemed to have moved past that by the time she got involved with SYW. She and Lindsey seemed to be in a better place.


The flip side of that coin is that TITN and especially SYW began life as Lindsey solo projects, so why should he have to change his vision and interrupt the continuity of a project he (and the others) had been working on for five or six years before she got involved?

And, what about Mick and John? Should they have to be beholden to Stevie’s demos? They’re artists, too, and it’s their band. John is as passionate/territorial about his bass lines as Stevie is about her songs. John gets especially offended with writers coming in with completed demos, and will demand they come back with the bass taken out of the mix. Fleetwood Mac is a band, and everyone has his/her input on the songs. What might be completely reasonable and necessary for her solo career won’t necessarily fly with Fleetwood Mac.

I suspect that’s why Lindsey wanted to start what he’d hoped would be the next album from scratch with Stevie.

He shouldn't have to, and if he didn't want to, he wouldn't. After all, he did leave the band at one point. He's been very open in interviews about needing to step away from FM in order to appreciate being in a band, and working more collaboratively and less dictatorially. He could easily hold onto his stuff for solo work if he wanted. I'm sure he realizes that his work gets more attention and reaches a wider audience when he's with FM. I have never heard anyone say the band gave him ultimatums about giving up his solo work.

Yes John and Mick might have ideas, and those ideas are consulted when they contribute their parts. They are free to offer ideas about the full song, e.g. when Mick suggested a brass band on Tusk. John created the bass line to the Chain etc. But always the writer of a song has more of a say, in pretty much any band. And you're assuming Mick and John want that sort of active arranging role, which they have never indicated they do. As John says, "I can't see into the writer's head" sometimes when working on songs so the studio can be tedious for him. No one (anymore) tells mick or john "just play this and shut up" (Lindsey tried this in this past). I'm sure any of the writers ever in FM had more of a say of what they wanted a song to be, while being open to suggestions from others.

So yes, Mick and John to some extent ARE beholden to the vision of Stevie or Lindsey or Chris. Just not slavishly. Your Stevie hatred is showing.

ETA: Lindsey clearly did NOT change his vision for his songs on SYW and that contributed in part to the sense of disjointedness many find on that album. He then tried to impose that vision onto Stevie's songs and the result was not good. That is also part of the reason she's not keen on working on a band album with him at the helm again. It's so funny because if someone said Lindsey should let Stevie have full control over how Lindsey's songs should sound, people would freak out.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by elle

agree, they both developed in different directions.



i enjoyed reading this and i think it explains many things, as both soda and iamwilliame said. while Stevie's early days song ideas were heavily dependent on Lindsey fleshing them out, with her growth as an artist she now has ideas for a complete song sound which are very different than what he might do.

this all means that what many fans want from the Mac - collaborating and building songs together from rudimentary song ideas - while seem to be working better than ever with songs that originate from either Lindsey or Christine, ending in numerous co-writes on BuckVie, does not seem like something Stevie is interesed in doing with the Mac anymore. and it doesn't sound like she's interested in adding to other members' songs either - remember back in 2012 Lindsey brought to the Mac bunch of his own rudimentary song ideas so they can build them all together. several years later Chris took several of those and made them into songs like Too Far Gone and Red Sun.

songwriting demos is much the same meaning as "roughs" which Lindsey uses to refer to the recordings Chris sent him from England of the early basic versions of her songs when she first was reaching out and first rejoined the band. I just watched the 'making of' video of the BuckVie album the other day for the first time in a long time.....so cool.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I agree completely. Projects where all their individual solo crap Is just thrown in, is when you end up with SYW, or BTM. Collaboration is how they finesse the FM sound.

^ This.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

songwriting demos is much the same meaning as "roughs" which Lindsey uses to refer to the recordings Chris sent him from England of the early basic versions of her songs when she first was reaching out and first rejoined the band. I just watched the 'making of' video of the BuckVie album the other day for the first time in a long time.....so cool.

Every time I watch that video I get tears. Like seeing an old friend after so many years. Now, I gotta go watch it.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Every time I watch that video I get tears. Like seeing an old friend after so many years. Now, I gotta go watch it.

I cried several times watching my BuckVie shows. The band of my life is winding down, and that makes me terribly sad...

And I'm getting older, too...

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

He shouldn't have to, and if he didn't want to, he wouldn't. After all, he did leave the band at one point.

If given the choice, Lindsey probably would have preferred releasing his SYW songs as a part of a solo album, but the decision on how to proceed was much more complicated than that.

The new leadership at WB following the December, 1992 death of WB head Steve Ross (not the guitarist) brought in changes that didn’t necessarily benefit the band. Ross had had a hands off approach to Warner Music, but the new head was described as a bean counter. By August, 1994, Mo Ostin and Lenny Waronker, both champions of Fleetwood Mac, were out at the label. Given the poor performances of OOTC, Street Angel, and Time (and the lack of promotion for the latter two albums), I think Lindsey was being very cautious about how to proceed. He could have released a solo album a few years earlier, but he was encouraged to wait and see what was going on at the label and was entertaining offers from other labels. I suspect what was going to be GoS was recorded with the durability of becoming a Fleetwood Mac album, if needed.

I have never heard anyone say the band gave him ultimatums about giving up his solo work.

No, they just stuck a producer they knew he’d hate working with to force his hand (which Mick bragged about in 1987).

And you're assuming Mick and John want that sort of active arranging role, which they have never indicated they do.

John has said in numerous interviews that he makes songwriters take the bass out of their demos and that Lindsey was especially bad about telling him what to play. It’s not an assumption, it’s what he’s said over the years.

ETA: Lindsey clearly did NOT change his vision for his songs on SYW and that contributed in part to the sense of disjointedness many find on that album. He then tried to impose that vision onto Stevie's songs and the result was not good.

But that’s the whole point of what I’m saying. The fact is Lindsey, as well as Mick, John, and even Christine, began working on the project in late 1995/early 1996. They weren’t going to change the vision for the album at that point. (“What you don’t realize, Stevie, is that we’ve just spent the last six months trying not to be ourselves.”)

That’s also why Lindsey wanted to do something from scratch with Stevie so that she would have equal input on the direction of the album.

That is also part of the reason she's not keen on working on a band album with him at the helm again.

Which he said he’d be willing to give up, and why he brought Mitchell Froom on board for EP.

But, Stevie can’t just send over demos, be completely removed from the creative process, and be upset when it goes in a direction she doesn’t like.

It's so funny because if someone said Lindsey should let Stevie have full control over how Lindsey's songs should sound, people would freak out.

Not necessarily. I see people on here who are critical of his production techniques. I think many, myself included, think Lindsey could get back to doing more basic, fundamental songs and production. And, I think he’s open to it in the context of a Fleetwood Mac album.

[jbrownsjr]

God, I missed you. ^^^

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Stevie and Lindsey's chemistry musically and romantically has drifted just about completely apart..

Whereas, Christine and Lindsey seemed to have grown even with dormant years and a sea between them. And I dare say they care about the band's creativity more than the other members.
I love that Lindsey has a solo album coming out as well. He's not hanging his hat on either of his careers. Admirable.

I swear I believe the man will work until he can no longer stand up in front of the mic and hold his guitar I think he still has so much to offer and he enjoys it very, very much.

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Stevie has always had a hard time with this notion. Whereas Christine and Lindsey are more of a collaborative effort for the sake of the band. The band is where the magic happens, in my opinion.

Well, clearly many of us agree on this. I like Stevie's solo career, and I love Lindsey's and Christine's solo work, but only FM songs can make me jump up and down on the stage, sing in the middle of the street and forget about anything bad going on in my life. They're definitely magical together. And I can't wait to see them again.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

It's so funny because if someone said Lindsey should let Stevie have full control over how Lindsey's songs should sound, people would freak out.

For that to happen you need some musical skills Stevie doesn't possess. She could never have control over a guitar player's songs if she doesn't know how to play the guitar. Same with Christine's songs.

That's probably why nobody ever suggested it.