The Infamous Bob Dylan Comment

[Fleetwood Jack]

So I had a question for all of my ledgies peeps.

What's the big deal about Lindsey Buckingham's comment on her first person to third person lyrics? I thought he put it nice enough.

I'm curious what you guys think of the "Well, you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan" comment. I thought it was kind of rude since he seemed nice enough, but I'm ready and willing to hear what al you have to say!

[HomerMcvie]

She's a *****, and she can't stand him(Lindsey).

[SisterNightroad]

I think that it happened more than 14 years ago and probably they don't care or even remember it anymore.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Fleetwood Jack

So I had a question for all of my ledgies peeps.

What's the big deal about Lindsey Buckingham's comment on her first person to third person lyrics? I thought he put it nice enough.

I'm curious what you guys think of the "Well, you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan" comment. I thought it was kind of rude since he seemed nice enough, but I'm ready and willing to hear what al you have to say!

I know right? It was reasonable and polite question. The response was a complete ego trip ladden slam that she keeps repeating as the worst thing ever for more than a decade now, as one of the prime examples why he's so "horrible" to work with. Pretty mind boggling for unbiased observer, unless of course your world view is filtered through chiffon.

[CarnivalBegin]

Originally Posted by SisterNightroad

I think that it happened more than 14 years ago and probably they don't care or even remember it anymore.

I think you're wrong. She dedicated a whole section to that comment in her self-glorifying movie (which I love by the way 'cause, she deserves a lot of the glory) "In Your Dreams". I think she thinks of that comeback she had for him every time their eyes meet. She is a holder of grudges that claims she would never hold a grudge.

Anyways - what I think of the comment? He was right to point it out - but ultimately she WAS/IS right. Poetry is whatever you want it to be that expresses what you're trying to say. "And now you're going home" is more poignant and more beautiful-sounding than "And now he's going home".

The fact that she compares herself to Bob Dylan though is a little laughable. Don't get me wrong - I adore and worship the woman, I truly do. I also love Bob Dylan and own nearly each and every one of his albums (I'm missing a couple from the 80s, so sue me!) but Dylan has CONTINUED to release new and relevant and ever-evolving albums at a rate of more-or-less one every two years since 1962. Stevie has been anything but prolific in terms of actually released/published music AND - again, keep in mind I really do ADORE this woman - but she does still write with just about the point of view and wisdom of a teenager or young adult. It speaks to me cause I, myself, still love and think like a teenager in my love affairs but, come on - Bob Dylan is way more profound and has constantly looked in different directions and reinvented himself so many times. Do you really think Dylan would ever tour the same 15-or-so songs for over 20 years? No way in hell. Set list changes every night and he loves to confound people. Stevie is all about bankability.

So in the end - I adore that scene in Destiny Rules and I ultimately think SHE IS RIGHT but ... c'mon, even though you speak to me more than Dylan does most of the time ... you're still no Bob Dylan. N'either is Lindsey ... only difference? Lindsey knows damn' well he's no Dylan. Nobody's Dylan. Only Dylan is Dylan.

My two cents, for what it's worth.

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by CarnivalBegin

I think you're wrong. She dedicated a whole section to that comment in her self-glorifying movie (which I love by the way 'cause, she deserves a lot of the glory) "In Your Dreams".

Really, I didn't know, I still haven't managed to watch In Your Dreams yet.
Obviously she likes to remark about things that happened a lot of time ago, like my mother ironically likes to say "women can hold grudges for ever", but I really think neither of them cares so much about these things as much as we like to think anymore.
I picture them like my old late grandparents who argued all the time about little things they did or said ages before but then promptly forgot what they were arguing about when lunch/dinner/snack was ready.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Fleetwood Jack

So I had a question for all of my ledgies peeps.

What's the big deal about Lindsey Buckingham's comment on her first person to third person lyrics? I thought he put it nice enough.

I'm curious what you guys think of the "Well, you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan" comment. I thought it was kind of rude since he seemed nice enough, but I'm ready and willing to hear what al you have to say!

As the producer, it's his job to edit and run things by the writer that he might see as a problem. His take was perfectly within the scope of his dutiesl and as a writer himself, he couldn't not bring it up. Changing tenses is up to the writer. But, I think what he was trying to say was," because this song is so literal and not as abstract as a Bob Dylan, you might want to re-think this." (paraphrasing)

He might have just said, "hey you changed tenses are you cool with that?" and it would have been over. But, his approach was maybe a bit too condescending to her ears.

She's not like other people, she do what she want to....

[Neal]

Taken on its own, the "Destiny Rules" incident makes Stevie looks like an overreacting bitch. However... this was probably the 689th time Lindsey has tried to correct her grammar over the past 40+ years. Her annoyance was justified.

The difference was it was caught on film this time. And yes, she's held a grudge and regurgitated the story time and time again.

[TrueFaith77]

Forgive my attempts to conjugate, but it basically seems to switch between:

1) Third Person Past
2) Third-Person Perfect (or Present) (or Future??)
3) Second-Person Present where "You" is EITHER
....a) Lindsey OR
....b) Stevie

So it's a total of four different tenses in one song. ... and yes it's beautiful

THIRD-PERSON PAST
HE fell for her again, SHE watched it happen
Every day, day by day
But more important, night by night
SHE watched it all come into play
HE held her hands, SHE listened to what HE had to say

THIRD-PERSON PERFECT(?)
Thrown down, like a barricade
Maybe now HE could prove to her
That HE could be good for HER
And they should be together

SECOND-PERSON PRESENT - LINDSEY
YOU (Lindsey)'ve shaken your faith in ME, no
YOU (Lindsey)'ve shaken my faith in everything else
A decision no one makes, and now YOU (Lindsey)'RE going home
Faith is a hard thing to hold on to
Something inside YOU says I don't have to
YOU (Lindsey)'re not like other people, YOU (Lindsey) do what YOU (Lindsey) want to
YOU (Lindsey)'re not like other people, YOU (Lindsey) do what YOU (Lindsey) want to

THIRD-PERSON PERFECT(?)
Thrown down, like a barricade
Maybe now HE could prove to HER
That HE could be good for HER
And they should be together

SECOND-PERSON PRESENT - STEVIE
YOU (Stevie) say YOU (Stevie)'re sorry
Now YOU (Stevie) should walk away
But it's so overwhelming,
YOU (Stevie) have nothing left to say
YOU (Stevie) can sit outside his door and wait
Well, YOU (Stevie) can dedicate your pain to him

THIRD-PERSON PERFECT(?)
Oh, thrown down, like a barricade
Maybe now HE could prove to HER
That HER could be good for HER
And they should be together
About just how much HER never really told HER
Thrown down,
About how difficult it had been to be without HER
Thrown down

[bwboy]

Truefaith, I love what you did, putting their names in the song. But I took one verse differently than you:

You (Lindsey) say you're (Lindsey) sorry
Now you (Lindsey) should walk away...
You (Lindsey) have nothing left to say

The rest I agree with you, though. Funny how the song can read differently to everyone!

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by bwboy

Truefaith, I love what you did, putting their names in the song. But I took one verse differently than you:

You (Lindsey) say you're (Lindsey) sorry
Now you (Lindsey) should walk away...
You (Lindsey) have nothing left to say

The rest I agree with you, though. Funny how the song can read differently to everyone!

Yeah, I realized I always thought that was Lindsey too, but maybe I am assuming some consistency there where there isn't any haha.

So you (and I before this exercise) heard it this way (which is even more bonkers):


SECOND-PERSON PRESENT - STEVIE
YOU (Lindsey) say YOU (Lindsey)'re sorry
Now YOU (Lindsey) should walk away
But it's so overwhelming,
YOU (Lindsey) have nothing left to say
YOU (Stevie) can sit outside his door and wait
Well, YOU (Stevie) can dedicate your pain to him

[elle]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

Yeah, I realized I always thought that was Lindsey too, but maybe I've assuming some consistency there.

So you (and I before this exercise) heard it this way (which is even more bonkers):


SECOND-PERSON PRESENT - STEVIE
YOU (Lindsey) say YOU (Lindsey)'re sorry
Now YOU (Lindsey) should walk away
But it's so overwhelming,
YOU (Lindsey) have nothing left to say
YOU (Stevie) can sit outside his door and wait
Well, YOU (Stevie) can dedicate your pain to him

haha i have yet alternate version for you guys - this is how i always though of it:

YOU (Lindsey) say YOU (Lindsey)'re sorry
Now YOU (Stevie) should walk away
But it's so overwhelming,
YOU (Stevie) have nothing left to say
YOU (Stevie) can sit outside his door and wait
Well, YOU (Stevie) can dedicate your pain to him


he apologized, and now, after getting the apology she needed, she feels she should walk away. but it's all too overwhelming. she has nothing left to say - or do.

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by elle

haha i have yet alternate version for you guys - this is how i always though of it:

YOU (Lindsey) say YOU (Lindsey)'re sorry
Now YOU (Stevie) should walk away
But it's so overwhelming,
YOU (Stevie) have nothing left to say
YOU (Stevie) can sit outside his door and wait
Well, YOU (Stevie) can dedicate your pain to him


he apologized, and now, after getting the apology she needed, she feels she should walk away. but it's all too overwhelming. she has nothing left to say - or do.

Oh. I think YOU are right.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by elle

haha i have yet alternate version for you guys - this is how i always though of it:

YOU (Lindsey) say YOU (Lindsey)'re sorry
Now YOU (Stevie) should walk away
But it's so overwhelming,
YOU (Stevie) have nothing left to say
YOU (Stevie) can sit outside his door and wait
Well, YOU (Stevie) can dedicate your pain to him


he apologized, and now, after getting the apology she needed, she feels she should walk away. but it's all too overwhelming. she has nothing left to say - or do.

Yes!!! I like this

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by elle

he apologized, and now, after getting the apology she needed, she feels she should walk away. but it's all too overwhelming. she has nothing left to say - or do.

It's all too overwhelming she's getting her person/tense all f'dup!