Poor Sales??

[pattyfan]

Hi y'all. Kevin here. I'm pretty new to the boards. First, I have to say that it's really fun to find people into FM. I usually have to talk my friends' ears off while they just pretend to be listening!

A few thoughts on the whole new tour thing...

First, they're charging too much. I don't know whether it's them or whether it's the promoters or the venues, but even if the economy weren't so rocky, it would still be too much. There are ways for bands to tour for less (i.e. fewer non-Mac people on stage), and there are bands (much less famous, of course) who have had much more integrity when it comes to ticket prices. As an example, the Indigo Girls used to play the Greek Theater in Berkeley all the time. The Greek raised its prices and wanted to charge more than what the IGs thought was right, so they decided to stop playing there. That was it. Now they play at other venues. Perhaps the whole Fleetwood Mac machine is too big for the band to control, which would be really sad, but I'm guessing that if they really wanted to, they could have an effect on ticket prices.

I sympathize with kennation that this thread has become kind of negative, but, at least in my case, it comes down to just being frustrated. He's absolutely right; I don't have to buy a ticket at all. The problem for me is that, even with the frustration of high prices and the probable predictability of the set list, I of course still want to go. I can't let a Mac concert go by. So I get frustrated with them and with myself for not having stronger convictions (at least when it comes to F Mac!).

Finally, I was thinking about this whole setlist thing, and I came up with a theory, which you are all free to shoot down. The one thing F Mac has never done since it became a super group (at least not consistently) is play short shows. They always go for a little under 2 1/2 hours. Stevie and Lindsey said they're going to play all their hits. Usually, when they tour behind a new CD, they only play maybe 5 or 6 song from the new CD, plus possibly a rare old song or two. That's basically what they did with the SYW tour and the Dance tour. Other than that, they play their hits or well known songs. All of them. So if they're saying that for this tour they're just going to play "hits", that should mean that they'll have to play 5 or 6 song that we don't usually hear. I mean, what hits can they play that they don't normally play (if they don't play any of Christine's songs, which I'm assuming they won't)? The only "hit" that they don't normally play is Seven Wonders, right? So maybe they will trot out a handful of old/rare/new songs. I know that a handful isn't a ton, but it's better than nothing. And maybe Lindsey and Stevie aren't saying that they're doing that because they want to talk up the hits aspect since they think (and they're probably right, unfortunately) that that's what the majority of the ticket buyers (as opposed to the people on this board) really want to hear.

Just a theory.

Kevin

(P.S. Could you friggin' believe it if they trotted out a live version of Watchdevil?)

[michelej1]

Hi Kevin,

Well, once we knew that Irving Azoff and LiveNation were involved, costly tickets were a given. When FM signed with them, they signed away any control over ticket prices -- not that they ever expressed any interest in having control.

Yes, you're right that just due to concert length (and they wouldn't dare shorten the show to under 2 hours, if they want to keep audiences happy) we should get some songs that haven't been around.

Just based on what Stevie said about Christine's songs, I'm thinking they will add at least one more of hers to the set. I could easily see that being You Make Loving Fun, just because it's from Rumours and Lindsey really likes playing it. I don't know who would sing it!

Michele

[Tango]

Originally Posted by pattyfan

Hi y'all. Kevin here. I'm pretty new to the boards. First, I have to say that it's really fun to find people into FM. I usually have to talk my friends' ears off while they just pretend to be listening!

A few thoughts on the whole new tour thing...

First, they're charging too much. I don't know whether it's them or whether it's the promoters or the venues, but even if the economy weren't so rocky, it would still be too much. There are ways for bands to tour for less (i.e. fewer non-Mac people on stage), and there are bands (much less famous, of course) who have had much more integrity when it comes to ticket prices. As an example, the Indigo Girls used to play the Greek Theater in Berkeley all the time. The Greek raised its prices and wanted to charge more than what the IGs thought was right, so they decided to stop playing there. That was it. Now they play at other venues. Perhaps the whole Fleetwood Mac machine is too big for the band to control, which would be really sad, but I'm guessing that if they really wanted to, they could have an effect on ticket prices.

I sympathize with kennation that this thread has become kind of negative, but, at least in my case, it comes down to just being frustrated. He's absolutely right; I don't have to buy a ticket at all. The problem for me is that, even with the frustration of high prices and the probable predictability of the set list, I of course still want to go. I can't let a Mac concert go by. So I get frustrated with them and with myself for not having stronger convictions (at least when it comes to F Mac!).

Finally, I was thinking about this whole setlist thing, and I came up with a theory, which you are all free to shoot down. The one thing F Mac has never done since it became a super group (at least not consistently) is play short shows. They always go for a little under 2 1/2 hours. Stevie and Lindsey said they're going to play all their hits. Usually, when they tour behind a new CD, they only play maybe 5 or 6 song from the new CD, plus possibly a rare old song or two. That's basically what they did with the SYW tour and the Dance tour. Other than that, they play their hits or well known songs. All of them. So if they're saying that for this tour they're just going to play "hits", that should mean that they'll have to play 5 or 6 song that we don't usually hear. I mean, what hits can they play that they don't normally play (if they don't play any of Christine's songs, which I'm assuming they won't)? The only "hit" that they don't normally play is Seven Wonders, right? So maybe they will trot out a handful of old/rare/new songs. I know that a handful isn't a ton, but it's better than nothing. And maybe Lindsey and Stevie aren't saying that they're doing that because they want to talk up the hits aspect since they think (and they're probably right, unfortunately) that that's what the majority of the ticket buyers (as opposed to the people on this board) really want to hear.

Just a theory.

Kevin

(P.S. Could you friggin' believe it if they trotted out a live version of Watchdevil?)

I don't think it's a mere theory. If the first 20 rows are eaten up by ILOVEALL ACCESS.COM, if the economy is a disaster, if the holidays are coming, if the snow might arrive, if you are paying a morgage, if you are paying your kid's tuition or if you "believe in the five," there's just something not quite right about paying for a tour that doesn't include something new. What's startling is that this website usually represents the most die-hard of the fans, the ones that go to repeat shows. (This is the website that the "official" website formerly ripped off for it's information.) The thousands of people that used to frequent this site, including it's former owners just aren't into it anymore, for all sorts of reasons. I think the one day of promo interviews helped, as there seemed to be a spike of interest on this website, but they need to work a bit more, and stir some excitement. Perhaps, Stevie & Lindsey, since they are the ones actually singing the songs, need to somehow let people know what is being unleashed, to stir up some interest.

Personally, I don't want to buy a ticket until after the first show happens, because I just don't trust this band to not try to do The Dance (without even having Christine) all over again. I have the casette, the CDs (with the singles), have the video, have the DVD AND have the t-shirt from The Dance already. Sure, it's work for them, but they definitely are not the hardest working band in history. Many have worked much harder for much less. Including people from this website.

kennation is paying top dollar for two seats. So are a few others. Then this band will come back in a few more months, MAYBE with new material, and charge you all again. For maybe even MORE money. Maybe Mick will up his fee to $400.00 for a meet and greet. Eh. Sit tight. Let's see what they are really offering for your hard earned dollars. It's your money until it's theirs.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Well, once we knew that Irving Azoff and LiveNation were involved, costly tickets were a given. When FM signed with them, they signed away any control over ticket prices -- not that they ever expressed any interest in having control.

When Fleetwood Mac signed with their booking agent/representatives for this tour, they (in concert with their own representatives) determined the ticket prices for the tour when they negotiated the fee that they would require for their time/performances. They are directly related. If Fleetwood Mac wanted to lower their ticket prices, they could/would- but they won't, because it would lower their fee.

[BombaySapphire3]

I have seen Fleetwood Mac on every tour since my first show in December of 1979 save for the "Time " shows (I couldn't feature sitting through Pat Benatar and Reo Speedwagon to see a backup singer warble her way through Nicks's and Mcvie's hits) waiting for ChiliD to chime in .But this time I am seriously thinking of boycotting the tour .I can afford it but the prospect of seeing a Christineless Buckingham Nicks putting on a show of the '"hits" sans the woman responsible for over 50% of said hits just seems a bit absurd.

[MacMan]

Originally Posted by pattyfan

Finally, I was thinking about this whole setlist thing, and I came up with a theory, which you are all free to shoot down. The one thing F Mac has never done since it became a super group (at least not consistently) is play short shows. They always go for a little under 2 1/2 hours. Stevie and Lindsey said they're going to play all their hits. Usually, when they tour behind a new CD, they only play maybe 5 or 6 song from the new CD, plus possibly a rare old song or two. That's basically what they did with the SYW tour and the Dance tour. Other than that, they play their hits or well known songs. All of them. So if they're saying that for this tour they're just going to play "hits", that should mean that they'll have to play 5 or 6 song that we don't usually hear.

Maybe they'll rip a page from Stevie's Hits Tour and actually talk about the songs prior to singing them.... stretching the show out - playing less tunes, but being present on stage for just as long as if they didn't speak between...

[kennation]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Eh, I'll agree that the weather thing is a little silly.


I got to see five Robert Pollard/Boston Spaceships shows for a total of $75 on tickets. I think there's a lot more value in paying $15 for a ticket and actually being entertained by a dynamic, original performer singing songs for the first time compared to being frustrated by a band that has a lot of potential to make good music but is weighed down by stagnation. And, honestly, I can't imagine paying that much and have to listen to Lindsey give some canned speech about how they're all healing.


Stay home? I think not! I have OTHER rock options.


Lucky you. I'm lucky enough to know indie rockers. You can go drinking with indie rockers.

See, everyone has their options! You can go pay the money to see them or you can put your money somewhere else, great point, Steve.

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by pattyfan

Hi y'all. Kevin here. I'm pretty new to the boards. First, I have to say that it's really fun to find people into FM. I usually have to talk my friends' ears off while they just pretend to be listening!

I TOTALLY KNOW THE FEELING!!!!!!!!!

As for the tour, I have absolutely ZERO complaints (we dodged that Sheryl Crowe bullet so IT'S ALL GOOD).

[kennation]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I'm just curious, but how many times have you seen Fleetwood Mac in concert?

I have seen FM 2 times. I have driven pretty far to see them, since they never come to my area. I have seen Stevie Nicks 4 times. Once on each of her tours and some other random events, i.e. Motor City Casino... Again, that was 6 hours away from my home. So, I go through some great lengths, and money, to see this band.

[David]

Aside from the things they do every time (THE CHAIN, GYOW), it's hard to figure out what they might do next year because that "hits" word is misleading: what might have been a hit -- on paper -- a long time ago is by now completely forgotten. Examples: LOVE IN STORE, THINK ABOUT ME, FAMILY MAN, AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW, SKIES THE LIMIT, SAVE ME.

They're less inclined to play this stuff than to play the non-hits that they always play: NEVER GOING BACK AGAIN, I'M SO AFRAID, WORLD TURNING, LANDSLIDE, BLUE LETTER, SECOND HAND NEWS, RED ROVER (not to be confused with the Howard Hawks film RED RIVER), etc.

I think their repeated mention of "hits" is misleading many of us. I think what they're really going to do is play most of their concert staples.

[The Catdancer]

Maybe if they'll get rid of the back up band (except for a keyboard player) the ticket prices will go down. The back up band is huge and they don't need them imo.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MacMan

Maybe they'll rip a page from Stevie's Hits Tour and actually talk about the songs prior to singing them.... stretching the show out - playing less tunes, but being present on stage for just as long as if they didn't speak between...

That's pretty funny and if they really talked to each other, it wouldn't be half bad. I mean Lindsey's rote speeches about it being a long, strange trip "and here we are" didn't do anything for me after the 5th time, but when they went off script, I was pretty interested. Even the simple things . . . I remember they were in Anaheim and Lindsey said that they felt like it was their home and Stevie said, "It is our home." Just the "are you crazy" familiarity in her voice when she addressed him tickled me.

I don't know if I want 40 minutes of that, but I wouldn't sneeze at 20.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

Aside from the things they do every time (THE CHAIN, GYOW), it's hard to figure out what they might do next year because that "hits" word is misleading: what might have been a hit -- on paper -- a long time ago is by now completely forgotten. Examples: LOVE IN STORE, THINK ABOUT ME, FAMILY MAN, AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW, SKIES THE LIMIT, SAVE ME.

They're less inclined to play this stuff than to play the non-hits that they always play: NEVER GOING BACK AGAIN, I'M SO AFRAID, WORLD TURNING, LANDSLIDE, BLUE LETTER, SECOND HAND NEWS, RED ROVER (not to be confused with the Howard Hawks film RED RIVER), etc.

I remember Lindsey said he was surprised that Clinton knew the words to ISA because it had never been released as a single. It showed me that Lindsey knows many casual fans don't know that song, yet he is going to play it until he loses his arms.

Michele

[skcin]

Originally Posted by Tango

What's startling is that this website usually represents the most die-hard of the fans, the ones that go to repeat shows. (This is the website that the "official" website formerly ripped off for it's information.) The thousands of people that used to frequent this site, including it's former owners just aren't into it anymore, for all sorts of reasons. I think the one day of promo interviews helped, as there seemed to be a spike of interest on this website, but they need to work a bit more, and stir some excitement. Perhaps, Stevie & Lindsey, since they are the ones actually singing the songs, need to somehow let people know what is being unleashed, to stir up some interest.

Personally, I don't want to buy a ticket until after the first show happens, because I just don't trust this band to not try to do The Dance (without even having Christine) all over again. I have the casette, the CDs (with the singles), have the video, have the DVD AND have the t-shirt from The Dance already. Sure, it's work for them, but they definitely are not the hardest working band in history. Many have worked much harder for much less. Including people from this website.

kennation is paying top dollar for two seats. So are a few others. Then this band will come back in a few more months, MAYBE with new material, and charge you all again. For maybe even MORE money. Maybe Mick will up his fee to $400.00 for a meet and greet. Eh. Sit tight. Let's see what they are really offering for your hard earned dollars. It's your money until it's theirs.

Exactly. And they really seem to be rushing this tour & half-assing everything about it, IMO.

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

I can afford it but the prospect of seeing a Christineless Buckingham Nicks putting on a show of the '"hits" sans the woman responsible for over 50% of said hits just seems a bit absurd.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by MacMan

Maybe they'll rip a page from Stevie's Hits Tour and actually talk about the songs prior to singing them.... stretching the show out - playing less tunes, but being present on stage for just as long as if they didn't speak between...

I'd be fine with that if we actually got new & interesting stories. Most everyone already knows that Rhiannon was written before she read the books, that Landslide was written in Aspen, that LB wrote GYOW in anger at Stevie, that Sara's partially about Mick, blah blah blah.

Although now that I think about it, the band (Stevie especially) changes their stories so frequently that maybe we WILL get new info.

[skcin]

Originally Posted by David

Aside from the things they do every time (THE CHAIN, GYOW), it's hard to figure out what they might do next year because that "hits" word is misleading: what might have been a hit -- on paper -- a long time ago is by now completely forgotten. Examples: LOVE IN STORE, THINK ABOUT ME, FAMILY MAN, AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW, SKIES THE LIMIT, SAVE ME.

They're less inclined to play this stuff than to play the non-hits that they always play: NEVER GOING BACK AGAIN, I'M SO AFRAID, WORLD TURNING, LANDSLIDE, BLUE LETTER, SECOND HAND NEWS, RED ROVER (not to be confused with the Howard Hawks film RED RIVER), etc.

I think their repeated mention of "hits" is misleading many of us. I think what they're really going to do is play most of their concert staples.

I know. I've been thinking about it & trying to figure out:

a) what they will probably play
b) what I think they might play
c) what I think they should play but doubt they ever would

What "hits" will be unleashed that we didn't hear either in '97 or '03/'04?