Stevie Nicks Says Issues With Lindsey Buckingham Threaten Her Involvement With FM

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

That's the key point. SHE doesn't want to be in a FM with more space for LB. She wants to be the main focus, and at this point it is simple: lindsey has more to offer to the band: better songs, more energy and more maturity.

Leave girl, leave.

If it really were a matter of her having problems with not being the main focus, wouldn't that have been more of an issue for her when she was one-third of the frontline, as opposed to one-half of it? Plus, she happily shares a stage with Tom Petty, Chris Isaak, Don Henley and Vanessa Carlton. So ego wouldn't seem to be the root of it.

It's not a sin to want someone to treat you with respect -- not just begrudging respect, but genuine respect -- and to want them to take your opinions and feelings seriously. It's also not a sin to voice that desire.

I agree with you though -- she should leave. As much as I've always loved Fleetwood Mac, I'd much rather have a new solo album from Stevie.

[The Catdancer]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Ofcourse it wouldn't fill any arena. No question. But it would be a show ten times more intense and better. And I don't care if I'm watching a great show with 500 people. It's always better than watching a lackluster one with 10.000 others. She doesn't WANT FM anymore.

I agree with you again. I don't think she wants to be in FM anymore which is her right. But if she doesn't she should just pack up and leave instead of bashing Lindsey over the head with palm tree tops.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

If it really were a matter of her having problems with not being the main focus, wouldn't that have been more of an issue for her when she was one-third of the frontline, as opposed to one-half of it? Plus, she happily shares a stage with Tom Petty, Chris Isaak, Don Henley and Vanessa Carlton. So ego wouldn't seem to be the root of it.

It's not a sin to want someone to treat you with respect -- not just begrudging respect, but genuine respect -- and to want them to take your opinions and feelings seriously. It's also not a sin to voice that desire.

I agree with you though -- she should leave. As much as I've always loved Fleetwood Mac, I'd much rather have a new solo album from Stevie.

Waste of breathe (beautiful though it is) -- no one here will admit that LB might have been a pri*k to her - his history of being polite to women is so clean. And, even if she is/was a total c*nt beloved to the unwashed masses, to everyone in the history of art (defined only by LB and devil may care about CM (the more talented of the three)) -- it does not matter because La Nicks, despite like 50 million records and countless sold out shows - is a talentless cu*t who is not a star much less the one whom LB salivates to ride on the coat tails of to fame After all, his history of caring for art above FM is so pristine

[Moz]

I thought she'd be over all this ~drama~ by now.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Moz

I thought she'd be over all this ~drama~ by now.

I think that she really cares about FM and is trying to make it work. Is it so far above the realm of imagination that LB is a pr*ck to her and she is trying to solve that in a genuine effort to make FM work? Hasn't her commitment to FM showed that? Sadly, few (not really you) can see or admit that. It's all about LB is the saint.

[Miss Vicky]

I don't think that anyone here is trying to say that Buckingham is a saint. But Nicks' quotes in this article really make her come off as a spoiled child who is throwing a tantrum because she doesn't always get her way (which is, of course, a state of being that Buckingham is no stranger to - see Destiny Rules DVD).

I also think that chiffonheads have a tendency to put Stevie so high on a pedestal that she could not possibly have any faults and could not possibly be a pain in the ass to deal with herself. She ****s rainbows, right?

Stevie's fans are just as bad as Buckingham's fans or anyone else's so I wouldn't be pointing fingers.

[Nico]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think that she really cares about FM and is trying to make it work. Is it so far above the realm of imagination that LB is a pr*ck to her and she is trying to solve that in a genuine effort to make FM work? Hasn't her commitment to FM showed that? Sadly, few (not really you) can see or admit that. It's all about LB is the saint.

I haven't really read one person here say that Lindsey is a saint. Even the biggest Lindsey supporters can probably admit that he has been/still is somewhat of an arrogant jerk. I believe he has mellowed a lot over the years, but he still has it in him. What I have said about Stevie is simply this: she should probably, after all these years, just drop the public LB bashing. It's not as relevant as it once was and, frankly, makes her look like a whiny little b*&ch.

It almost seems like they are incapable of acting mature enough for him to treat her nicer and her to stop making public declarations of his undying assholeness towards her. It makes me sad, as she's turning 60 this year and he's got three kids who are supposed to be looking at him as a role model.

Really, I agree with what others have said. If Stevie isn't happy in FM, then she should just forget it. I would prefer to just have Lindsey do his solo stuff, but that's purely selfish. I love Fleetwood Mac and I guess all this drama is necessary, though I do feel some of it is incredibly stupid at the same time.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Nico

I haven't really read one person here say that Lindsey is a saint.

Yes, I would say that my opinion has nothing to do with thinking Lindsey is a saint. It has a lot to do with thinking that Stevie bends the truth like a soft pretzel. I don't believe her, not because of Lindsey's pristine character, but because of her own shifting stories.

I believe LB can be a jerk. As the song goes: I know you can. I've seen you do it.

Still, judging from Stevie's own comments and actions, there is no way I think she was mistreated during the SYW process. Why? Because of her own statements throughout the SYW recording and tour. She's mad at him now, for whatever reason. Maybe he deserves her ire and maybe he doesn't. But her anger today has little to do with what happened 4 years ago, based on what she was saying at the time. So, she's lying now, or she was lying then. But either way she's lying at some point.

When SYW first started she was finishing up TISL and Lindsey praised the album and said it was the best she'd ever done. She talked about how thrilled she was about that.

Then, for SYW, she gave him her songs to work on and she was very proud to say how he complimented her on them, said he was glad to get them and called her from his car to tell her he was listening to them and really liked them.

Then, she told the story about him listening to Illume, touching her knee and asking how she did it with tears in his eyes, many times.

Then, she said that he handled her in a much gentler fashion while they recorded SYW than he ever had in the past.

After the recording process was over, she said it was hard, but described how they were able to get through it in a mature and respectful fashion, with no one bullying her in the least:

"I don't think it's easier now. I think that it's just as hard to make a record now as it was to make record in 1976. We're all very passionate about our beliefs and we're all very stubborn and we're all a little immovable in certain places, and this last year was very difficult in many ways. But I feel this is what makes a great record. If we had walked into the Bel Air house every day and said, 'Oh, that's great, that's terrific, sure, whatever you want,' this record would not have been that studio record that we stared out wanting to make. We wanted this to be a great record, we didn't want this just to be a record. So we all stood our ground every single day, on many, many things. And we got it together. Linke in a relationship, we worked it out. And we're still standing at the end of the record, which is what we were all hoping from the beginning: that we would all come out of this with something that we were proud of and that we're all still very close to one another and all still love one another. and we're a band. Above all, we're a band."

Then, on tour she talked about how much fun they were having. And it wasn't Lindsey or the writer who first talked about it being fun. It was STEVIE: "There's a sweentess to it. Lindsey and I are really enjoying it." She casts a sideways glance. "Aren't we?

"Yes," he reassures her. "We are."

Then she told Mojo:

“Now I just adore him,” says Nicks, with ravishing candour. “He is my love. My first love and my love for all time. But we can’t ever be together. He has a lovely wife, Kristen, who I really like, and they are expecting their third child. The way he is with his children just knocks me out. I look at him now and just go, Oh, Stevie, you made a mistake!”

She leans forward. “But when we go on-stage together we are able to experience our love affair again - and again and again! For two and a half hours, four times a week...There isn’t really anybody in my life - it wouldn’t be good for me now anyway, I’m always away. But when hard times come over the next 20 or 30 years, when people we love die, he’ll be the first person I’ll call. Knowing that now, I think he has been able to let go of all the nasty things that happened and realise that, like I said to him, Lindsey, you’ll always have me. I’m always a phone call away. So you get it all.”

I mean, it's one thing to put on a stoic face for the reporter, but it's quite another to initiate the fond reflections and gush and gush like she did. While I know she and Lindsey fought on the tour (like in Florida, for instance), there were many warm, effusive moments between them, evidenced by her warm, effusive comments at the time.

So, no. I don't believe she was treated shabbily throughout the SYW process. Today, she's mad at him and he may deserve it, but I don't think she's mad at him for any of the reasons that she's giving to the press.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone questions her right to be mad at him. What I'm questioning is why she has chosen to take her complaints to the media. Can't they argue among themselves? In Mick's book, he described a tantrum in which Stevie threatened to run to Rolling Stone and tell them that she wasn't singing on TITN. Lindsey isn't putting down FM or Stevie in the press today as he has in the past, but 20 years later, it's still business as usual for Stevie.

Stevie has every right to want respect from Lindsey. By the same token, I'm sure Lindsey would like respect too. Her telling the press how much she hated his work on her SYW songs isn't exactly respectful. And I'm not saying she shouldn't hate his work. If she thinks he ruined Smile at You, she has plenty of company, but why tell the magazines?

You can air dirty laundry all you like, it's just bound to smell when you do.

Michele

[Phil]

Stevie's churlishness aside, does anyone remember how Lindsey massacred most of her songs on Say You Will? I believe this may be at the heart of her most recently publicised concerns. Whether others agree with Stevie's stance or not, she was dissatisfied with the arrangements and production Lindsey performed on her songs. Admittedly, she seemed more positive during the original slew of press and interviews in early 2003 but her true thoughts seeped out later on.
Whilst I think Lindsey was genuine in his efforts to realise Stevie's songs to the best of his abilities, she obviously felt as though the original intent of her writing was lost in the transistion to record (an age-old complaint of hers it must be said).
I did actually appreciate much of Say You Will but I found the dense production, particularly on Stevie's songs, to often be cluttered and claustrophobic eg Everybody Finds Out and to some extent, Running Through The Garden (which could have been rescued by a contribution from Christine). In my opinion, Lindsey improved upon Thrown Down (which does conjure up the majestic qualities of Gypsy despite not being nearly as good a song), but elsewhere his vision veered between insensitvity and bastardisation, with the prime example being Smile At You.
At the end of the day, Stevie requires a position of equal footing within the band but as it stands, this respect has not been afforded her way. Clearly she recognises her status as the "drawcard" of the band and so understandably, insists that Lindsey desist with his condescending ways and actually begin acknowledging her talent.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by Phil

Stevie's churlishness aside, does anyone remember how Lindsey massacred most of her songs on Say You Will? I believe this may be at the heart of her most recently publicised concerns. Whether others agree with Stevie's stance or not, she was dissatisfied with the arrangements and production Lindsey performed on her songs. Admittedly, she seemed more positive during the original slew of press and interviews in early 2003 but her true thoughts seeped out later on.
Whilst I think Lindsey was genuine in his efforts to realise Stevie's songs to the best of his abilities, she obviously felt as though the original intent of her writing was lost in the transistion to record (an age-old complaint of hers it must be said).
I did actually appreciate much of Say You Will but I found the dense production, particularly on Stevie's songs, to often be cluttered and claustrophobic eg Everybody Finds Out and to some extent, Running Through The Garden (which could have been rescued by a contribution from Christine). In my opinion, Lindsey improved upon Thrown Down (which does conjure up the majestic qualities of Gypsy despite not being nearly as good a song), but elsewhere his vision veered between insensitvity and bastardisation, with the prime example being Smile At You.
At the end of the day, Stevie requires a position of equal footing within the band but as it stands, this respect has not been afforded her way. Clearly she recognises her status as the "drawcard" of the band and so understandably, insists that Lindsey desist with his condescending ways and actually begin acknowledging her talent.

All good points. Accept the last one. That is a bastardization of the mature point in life this man is now. He can be a pain in the ass for her, I know. But I really think LB worked his ass off to let her shine on those SYW-tracks. If she wants to have more influence on how her songs sound, she just has to be there. Since Mirage that hardly ever happened anymore. She gave it over to him -and maybe there ARE reasons to complain, as your post articulates fairly reasonable- so then you simply have to shut up and take the loss.

No she's just pissed that that album didn't sell and she blames him, not the poor quality of her songwriting. That's the bottomline.

[HejiraNYC]

I think there is a lot to be said about the passage of time and its ability to focus our lens on the past in sharper detail. Indeed, Stevie put on the best spin she could possibly muster up for the SYW promotional blitz. And anyone with two brain cells would have known better than to go to the press and state 'Lindsey f***ed up my songs!' when you are trying to sell the new album. However, at the same time, surely the wounds from the debacle regarding the album size/sequencing (which supposedly almost broke up the band) must have still been fresh on everybody's mind. I think we could pick apart everything that SN said and call her a duplicitous, childish c***, but we should also understand that it must have been incredibly difficult to reconcile her disappointment and resentment with the fact that she loves being in FM and loves having hit records. Plus, she probably realized that they were going to be stuck with each other for the next six months plus on tour, so she was walking on eggshells and doing damage control preemptively. In hindsight this must have been a harrowing experience, so this probably explains why she has been so voluble recently about her bitterness towards that period of time. As much as everybody canonizes St. Lindsey's artistic struggles , I'm sure Stevie was horrified that she had to put out songs that she felt were not up to snuff.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I think there is a lot to be said about the passage of time and its ability to focus our lens on the past in sharper detail. Indeed, Stevie put on the best spin she could possibly muster up for the SYW promotional blitz. And anyone with two brain cells would have known better than to go to the press and state 'Lindsey f***ed up my songs!' when you are trying to sell the new album. However, at the same time, surely the wounds from the debacle regarding the album size/sequencing (which supposedly almost broke up the band) must have still been fresh on everybody's mind. I think we could pick apart everything that SN said and call her a duplicitous, childish c***, but we should also understand that it must have been incredibly difficult to reconcile her disappointment and resentment with the fact that she loves being in FM and loves having hit records. Plus, she probably realized that they were going to be stuck with each other for the next six months plus on tour, so she was walking on eggshells and doing damage control preemptively. In hindsight this must have been a harrowing experience, so this probably explains why she has been so voluble recently about her bitterness towards that period of time. As much as everybody canonizes St. Lindsey's artistic struggles , I'm sure Stevie was horrified that she had to put out songs that she felt were not up to snuff.

Now, try to empathise in the same way from lindsey's perspective and conclude that Stevie's recent bashings in the press are absolutely horrid and childish. I'm sure he's just laughing about it. And he should.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

If it really were a matter of her having problems with not being the main focus, wouldn't that have been more of an issue for her when she was one-third of the frontline, as opposed to one-half of it? Plus, she happily shares a stage with Tom Petty, Chris Isaak, Don Henley and Vanessa Carlton. So ego wouldn't seem to be the root of it.

It's not a sin to want someone to treat you with respect -- not just begrudging respect, but genuine respect -- and to want them to take your opinions and feelings seriously. It's also not a sin to voice that desire.

I agree with you though -- she should leave. As much as I've always loved Fleetwood Mac, I'd much rather have a new solo album from Stevie.

It's about the fact that Lindsey's place in the spotlight will be reduced too, Stewie. That's the whole point of her, isn't that totally clear? SHE doesn't like it if HE's stealing the show where SHE should. If he's in a more back-up position she's more happy. It's that simple.

I want another solorecord from her too. So it'll be clear that she's done with good songwriting, like she has been for years.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

All good points. Accept the last one. That is a bastardization of the mature point in life this man is now. He can be a pain in the ass for her, I know. But I really think LB worked his ass off to let her shine on those SYW-tracks. If she wants to have more influence on how her songs sound, she just has to be there. Since Mirage that hardly ever happened anymore. She gave it over to him -and maybe there ARE reasons to complain, as your post articulates fairly reasonable- so then you simply have to shut up and take the loss.

No she's just pissed that that album didn't sell and she blames him, not the poor quality of her songwriting. That's the bottomline.

Chocolate tastes good. Tomatoes taste good. Together... not good. I think Lindsey tried to cover Stevie's tomatoes with chocolate on many of her SYW tracks. Sure, this could partially be due to Stevie's lack of participation at the outset, but it could also be a lack of communication and teamwork that doomed some of her songs. Nobody (except S and L) knows for sure how/why that happened, but I suspect nobody is blameless.

I think the album didn't sell because they streamed the entire album on the internet immediately. Upon first hearing the album in its entirety, my initial impression was that, for whatever reason, he seemed to have left off the best songs from the Gift of Screws sessions, and contributed mostly the strange, unmelodic, long, over-indulgent songs. If anything, Stevie was the one to help salvage the album commercially with the radio hits "SYW" and "Thrown Down." Sure, she had some clunkers on there, but at least they didn't go on for over six minutes a piece!

As for Lindsey's demeanor, based on what I've seen on the Destiny Rules DVD, I think he came across very condescending. Or... I don't know. I really couldn't figure out half the time whether he was being serious or whether he was just putting on airs, or saying things that his psychiatrist would approve of. He always had a way of taking a simple yes/no or good/bad decision, and just talk a bunch of nonsense around it. And I did think it took a bit of chutzpah to tell Stevie to correct the grammar in her lyrics. No, she is no Bob Dylan (thank Buddah!), but that doesn't mean she deserves to be disrespected like that. Especially on camera. I loved it when Stevie handed his ass to him for saying that.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Furthermore, I don't think anyone questions her right to be mad at him. What I'm questioning is why she has chosen to take her complaints to the media. Can't they argue among themselves?

You can air dirty laundry all you like, it's just bound to smell when you do.

I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't prefer if Stevie left the Lindsey bashing at home. Not because I feel bad for the guy at all, but just because of how it sometimes makes her look. But every one of them has said that they're basically a dysfunctional family disguised as a rock band, so maybe this is how they communicate. Maybe Stevie feels that in order to REALLY get Lindsey's attention, she has to take her complaints to the press -- lest her feelings get brushed off as inconsequential yet again. Perhaps she feels that grand gestures are what it takes to really get through to him.

As for the accusations of lying... I haven't seen an artist yet who's said, "I absolutely loathe my latest album, but please still buy it anyway." At the time of its release, they always put on the best face and promote the hell out of it -- only later does it come out that they were less than pleased with it. Actors do the same thing -- doing rounds on all of the talk shows and entertainment programs, talking about how wonderful the experience was, etc., etc. Then, five years later, they nary have a positive thing to say about the film, or they reveal nasty clashes with the director, and so on.

It's not something unique to Stevie.