Christine McVie.com

[David]

You guys are being silly. That one segment in the 2003 doc where Lindsey is suggesting an alternative wording has been blown out of proportion -- by Stevie & all her fanaticals. Lindsey wasn't there to correct her grammar. He was trying to say that he thought the artistic power of that song -- or at least of that stanza -- would be stronger with his suggestion (& conversely that Stevie's wording lessened the song's power). He wasn't playing English teacher!

And every last one of us has done exactly the same thing on this very board. We've all posted opinions that this line or that line would have resonated more aesthetically with a (sometimes slight) change in the wording.

Of course, aesthetic power (appeal, magic, whatever) comes down to opinion, or preference. There's no geometric proof that can be posited to support the popular opinion that "The forgotten chimpanzee" in "Jane" is either artistically weak or strong or anything else. I think it's powerful, myself. It's a song honoring a gal who speaks out against chimp research, so what should Stevie have said? Monkey? Cute hairy primate baby?

One song of Christine's that seems to be everyone's favorite in terms of its verbal power is "Why," but I have always felt that song was kind of weak, lyrically.

[aleuzzi]

I got the sense Lindsey was riding her a little, for the sake of the camera. Whether he was merely making a suggestion or not, she got offended right away.

BTW: Stevie Wonder has a song called You and I, as well...There, the grammar is correct. But I can care less if Christine failed her phonics test. "You and I" sounds a heck of a lot better than "you and me" in that song...

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

One song of Christine's that seems to be everyone's favorite in terms of its verbal power is "Why," but I have always felt that song was kind of weak, lyrically.

Lyrically, I don't think it helps that the hurt is melting away in two different verses. Still, the emotion in the last verse and the unadorned simplicity of the question is what I think really gets to people. Why don't you love me? Can't get much plainer or deeper than that and it's sung in a way that expresses the despair quite nicely.

Judging from her ITMT voice and the way she did Calumny, Chris could still pull off Why very nicely today.

As for Stevie, she didn't need monkeys in her song at all. Why not have words in there that suggest monkeys like "swinging" or "primeval" or, ah, "banana." Then dedicate the song to Jane and everyone would get the message. Rule of thumb: Don't put chimpanzees or laundromats in your songs and don't put Duesenbergs in there either, for that matter.

Certainly, you're right that what's awkward and what's not is a subjective call. I think the phrasing "hurts my everything" and "not make believe" work splendidly. They're childish, but the feelings she describes hark back to the emotional bruising and vulnerability we often experienced as children. She's saying, "I'm 50 years old now, but with one scornful brow, you can take me back to that little girl's insecurity." I think the words are brilliant for that song.

As to the very helpful Lindsey, it's none of his business. He shouldn't concern himself with Stevie's words at all. Just take care of the music and shut his trap. If he needs something to occupy his time he can concentrate on the artistic power of the lines "I am what I am: a family man."

Was Stevie over-reacting? Is Stevie, Stevie?

She did tickle me when, taking most of the credit for The Chain, she noted that Lindsey went up and sang it exactly the way she told him for once in his life. That suggested to me that when he sings on her songs he usually changes not only the vocal arrangement, but the words too. Of course, I think that's very natural: to change a part that you're singing to make it fit what you're trying to express. But don't go wandering into other people's verses and trying to change them too.

Thinking of verse mangling. It's really nice on Angel when Lindsey is singing "haunted song" all crazy and Stevie is singing straight. That's why I wish they would share verses on SYLM, because by himself he is just messing the song up. If they sang together, with Stevie doing it traditionally, giving the words structure, his ironic interpretation would just add an accent to the lines running for cover and begging for sympathy, rather than distorting them altogether.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I got the sense Lindsey was riding her a little, for the sake of the camera. Whether he was merely making a suggestion or not, she got offended right away.

Yeah, I think that Lindsey was baiting both John and Stevie a little for entertainment value in Destiny Rules.

Michele

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Lyrically, I don't think it helps that the hurt is melting away in two different verses. Still, the emotion in the last verse and the unadorned simplicity of the question is what I think really gets to people. Why don't you love me? Can't get much plainer or deeper than that and it's sung in a way that expresses the despair quite nicely.

Judging from her ITMT voice and the way she did Calumny, Chris could still pull off Why very nicely today.

Michele

I never noticed the hurt melting away in 2 different verses! I just love the song to bits. She certainly could still pull off Why if of course she cared to (which she doesn't)

Gail

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Gailh

I never noticed the hurt melting away in 2 different verses! Gail

Well, the thing is, I guess that's the chorus, because the song is very sparse and doesn't have full verses really. Just a few sentences that lead you to the unvarnished climax.

What strikes me about the words is that it's not that the guy doesn't love her, it's just that he doesn't love her enough to fight for their survival. Instead he gives in to his weakness and takes the easy way out, which she won't do. She won't go on crying about it. There will be another day.

Michele

[David]

Originally Posted by michelej1

As for Stevie, she didn't need monkeys in her song at all. Why not have words in there that suggest monkeys like "swinging" or "primeval" or, ah, "banana."

But you know what the shipper reaction would be if Stevie stuck a "banana" in one of her songs!

Then dedicate the song to Jane and everyone would get the message. Rule of thumb: Don't put chimpanzees or laundromats in your songs and don't put Duesenbergs in there either, for that matter.

On the other hand, she gave Warren Zevon props for writing a song with "Waring blender" in it -- & getting away with it.

As to the very helpful Lindsey, it's none of his business. He shouldn't concern himself with Stevie's words at all. Just take care of the music and shut his trap.

Well, OK. But I get the feeling that he has done that repeatedly with Stevie in the studio.

If he needs something to occupy his time he can concentrate on the artistic power of the lines "I am what I am: a family man."

Natch.

She did tickle me when, taking most of the credit for The Chain,

That's what bugs me the most about Madame Nicks & her fanaticals: They see the whole damn song -- the whole damn achievement -- as merely the words.

I see words as being -- by astronomical units -- the least of Fleetwood Mac's various achievements.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

That's what bugs me the most about Madame Nicks & her fanaticals: They see the whole damn song -- the whole damn achievement -- as merely the words.

I see words as being -- by astronomical units -- the least of Fleetwood Mac's various achievements.

I don't think Stevie thinks -- well, who knows what she actually thinks -- when she gets the wind under her sails and says stuff like that, I don't think she's just taking credit for The Chain words. When she says that Lindsey and Christine sat there for months struggling pathetically on the song until she rescued them, I think she is implying that she's probably responsible for the piano and guitar too. Only John gets credit for the bass.

On the other hand, you have a point, because she did say that all Lindsey added was the "running in the shadows" part, indicating she was focusing on the words and not the instrumental contributions.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't think Stevie thinks -- well, who knows what she actually thinks -- when she gets the wind under her sails and says stuff like that, I don't think she's just taking credit for The Chain words. When she says that Lindsey and Christine sat there for months struggling pathetically on the song until she rescued them, I think she is implying that she's probably responsible for the piano and guitar too. Only John gets credit for the bass.

On the other hand, you have a point, because she did say that all Lindsey added was the "running in the shadows" part, indicating she was focusing on the words and not the instrumental contributions.

Michele

Christine has given credit to Stevie for saving her on Oh Daddy...

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Christine has given credit to Stevie for saving her on Oh Daddy...

To Stevie's credit, she has never mentioned suggesting that one line to Christine. But I bet it's not a coincidence that that's her favorite Christine song.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by michelej1

To Stevie's credit, she has never mentioned suggesting that one line to Christine. But I bet it's not a coincidence that that's her favorite Christine song.

Michele

I like when Stevie says, "The girls have always had enough sense not to leave the band.. but the guys have always been on the fence..."

not exact but something like that...

[fleetwoodtrick]

Oh, David, we all know you're one of the fanaticals too!

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by David

That's what bugs me the most about Madame Nicks & her fanaticals: They see the whole damn song -- the whole damn achievement -- as merely the words.

I see words as being -- by astronomical units -- the least of Fleetwood Mac's various achievements.

I assumed Stevie came up with the words AND the melody for them, to lay over the instrumental track. If this is true, then her contribution to The Chain is pretty significant.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I assumed Stevie came up with the words AND the melody for them, to lay over the instrumental track. If this is true, then her contribution to The Chain is pretty significant.

But I wouldn't assume that about the melody. She had a song that used those words already, but there's no indication they took the melody from that song.

They could have, in part, but I wouldn't assume they did.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by michelej1

But I wouldn't assume that about the melody. She had a song that used those words already, but there's no indication they took the melody from that song.

They could have, in part, but I wouldn't assume they did.

Michele

Well nobody really knew what the girl was talking about... but it just sounded so good...