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  #31  
Old 08-12-2002, 02:27 PM
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blinker12 blinker12 is offline
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Quote:
Could be that.... or it could be that no one wants to get into yet another argument with you over something that is entirely subjective.
Well put, Johnny.
I already said most of what I had to contribute to this topic over on the "most talented member" thread. I acknowledge that Stevie had a down period (1985-1993 IMO), but: a) everyone has down periods in life; and b) I think she's on the other side of it now.
Really, her creative dip lasted a shorter amount of time than it has taken Lindsey to put together a single album's worth of new solo material (10 years and counting). Stevie releases more material than does Lindsey, so she exposes herself to more scrutiny.
That's not a judgement call; I love them both to bits. But let's put things in perspective.
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  #32  
Old 08-12-2002, 02:35 PM
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*sighs*
Before I even post this, I'm already ashamed of myself... because I know the difference between a healthy dialogue, and something that is quite simply meant to be bating.
And typically I'm smart enough to avoid being dragged into the latter.
But, alas, here I go anyway....

Anytime someone makes sweeping generalizations... such as a song being "crappy"... with no valid argument to back that up, they should expect a rebuttal.
Calling something "crappy" is an opinion, and leaves itself open to be argued, or ignored.

Also to write off any discussion as "whining"... implies that other people's opinions are childish and inconsequential.
Which is another statement in which I can see nothing constructive.

At this point in the game, one must wonder why someone would make such comments.
Obviously some kind of reaction was being sought, and I doubt the intentions were merely to engage discussion.

I enjoy healthy debates... when they can be conducted as adults.
But anything less, and I bore very quickly... and tend to lend very little credence to the point of view being stated.



Johnny Stew
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  #33  
Old 08-12-2002, 02:57 PM
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Bella Figura Bella Figura is offline
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yes, Johnny Stew, I could hear your sigh right thru my speakers and you are so right on the money...when reason and humor try to lift an interesting discussion to it's rightful healthy level, all that is needed is one small inciteful comment to bring it all down once more...

and finally there is only one last recourse...

"Bored now" Willow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer
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  #34  
Old 08-12-2002, 03:21 PM
CarneVaca CarneVaca is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Street Angel
AAH! Wrong thread... I somehow can´t get it moved over to the "Talents" thread... sorry!
Do post there. I think we can break 100!
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  #35  
Old 08-12-2002, 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by CarneVaca


AAHHHHH!!!! Therein the rub. When the band was acting like a band, they could truly be appreciated as a group.


Thanks for the insight Carne. Once again, I have no problem with others opinions. And that is exactly what yours is an opinion - too bad it seems like an opinion that is forced on others. I'll say it again, I appreciate the group as a whole. And just because you don't appreciate ANY of Stevie's contributions that's fine. But don't try to imply that's the way we all SHOULD feel.

I think Johnny Stew said it best
.
The "All Aspects" people can't understand why the other faction appears to be so blindly loyal... while the "Focus On The Positive" folks can't understand why the others seem to only discuss what's wrong with the band, and not what's right.

I guess I just don't understand all the negativity that's all. I focus on the positives of the band and try to keep away from the negatives. It's too bad we all can't do that.
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  #36  
Old 08-12-2002, 03:30 PM
CarneVaca CarneVaca is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Stew
*sighs*
Anytime someone makes sweeping generalizations... such as a song being "crappy"... with no valid argument to back that up, they should expect a rebuttal.
Calling something "crappy" is an opinion, and leaves itself open to be argued, or ignored.

Also to write off any discussion as "whining"... implies that other people's opinions are childish and inconsequential.
Which is another statement in which I can see nothing constructive.

Johnny Stew
Oh, gee, here we go. Is the "whining" comment going to get me another point? Hey, how many points do I get anyway? Johnny, I can't believe you took that seriously. It was obviously written in jest. So if I but one of these next to the remark, it would make it OK?

I simply don't get it. People are way too sensitive on this board. You try to have a serious discussion, and people get on you for saying this in that way about a band member. You make a joke, somebody gets offended. Get real, folks.

As for the use of "crappy," it was admittedly done to elicit a response. But isn't that what we're doing? Exchanging comments. I keep reading about people get on here to make statements that will elicit a response as if that's bad thing. I though this was a discussion board.

Like it or not, all Stevie Nicks has given to Fleetwood Mac since 1982 is leftovers, most of which weren't very good. And that is all I was saying.

I was being playful, Johnny, and you took me way too seriously. Forgive me for assuming you had a sense of humor.
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  #37  
Old 08-12-2002, 03:33 PM
CarneVaca CarneVaca is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliP

And just because you don't appreciate ANY of Stevie's contributions that's fine. But don't try to imply that's the way we all SHOULD feel.
Not true. Scroll back to see where I praised Stevie for having written some great songs. (It might be in another thread.) Also, I've credited her for being a survivor. It's a funny thing: I can actually see people in multidimensional terms, which is why I have praised and criticized her.
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  #38  
Old 08-12-2002, 04:39 PM
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Posted be CarneVaca:Folks, calm down!

I think what happens here is that the Stevie fans feel slighted that she gets fewer songs on albums though she's had the most popularity
Gee I don't feel slighted at all. Actually I think that all the members get equal TIME on an album, which is the way it should be. I might feel a bit slighted though if my favorite band member's songs weren't being released as singles equally.


Joe

Last edited by jwd; 08-12-2002 at 05:23 PM..
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  #39  
Old 08-12-2002, 08:43 PM
EnchantedStorms EnchantedStorms is offline
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Originally posted by Street Angel
I don´t see the need to post a "I defend Stevie with teeth and claws, because she´s perfect"-kind of post. But one thing that came to my mind when I read the posts was...

I can´t remember reading anywhere that artists like Peter Gabriel, Joni Mitchell or Lou Reed are highly regarded because of their perfection on any instruments. What they are acknowledged for is their talent in songwriting. If anyone wants to rank Stevie next to the SONGWRITING talents of the artists mentioned above, is of course anyone´s personal choice.
Isn't that what Stevie, herself, has said many, many times? That she ONLY wants to be remembered for being a great SONGWRITER? Not for being a great piano player or a great guitar player. Well... congradulations, Stevie...I think you've made it. (Even if you cannot stand her music, if you just read her words, you have to admit, the woman can write some pretty great stuff.)

Bella Figura....wonderful post. And the same goes for Johnny Stew, I have actually looked forward to reading them. You both have made excellent points.

Okay...I'm going back into hiding now. I normally don't post on these long "discussion" type threads....just because I simply don't have the time.

And yes....as much as I love Stevie...I do believe that the "whole is greater than the sum of the parts".
~~Angela~~
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  #40  
Old 08-12-2002, 11:53 PM
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bjk3047 bjk3047 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jwd


Gee I don't feel slighted at all. Actually I think that all the members get equal TIME on an album, which is the way it should be. I might feel a bit slighted though if my favorite band member's songs weren't being released as singles equally.


Joe
Well now, that's a whole 'nother pot of gold. Singles are not picked on a democracy based system. The label puts out singles that they think will make the album sell. They don't give a flying f*** as to who sings the song. If Bob the talking baby sang the song and it meant more sales than a kick-ass song, Bob wins. It's just the sad truth.
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  #41  
Old 08-13-2002, 04:02 PM
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Posted by bjk3047:Well now, that's a whole 'nother pot of gold. Singles are not picked on a democracy based system. The label puts out singles that they think will make the album sell. They don't give a flying f*** as to who sings the song. If Bob the talking baby sang the song and it meant more sales than a kick-ass song, Bob wins. It's just the sad truth.
True...they are released to promote and sell an album. Therefore the songs that are released are typically the stronger songs that do appeal to a larger audience. More so than not, songs that are released would be classified as "kick ass" songs. And hey if it puts money in my pocket, lets my band keep touring and recording.....then thank you Christine and Stevie for writing most of the hit singles and of course to Lindsey for adding the "magic" with the stellar rhythm section of John and Mick added in.


P.S. I never felt slighted AT ALL......REALLY!


Joe
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  #42  
Old 08-13-2002, 06:02 PM
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Now wait...


Chris' singles:

Over My Head
Say You Love Me
Don't Stop
You Make Loving Fun
Think About Me
Hold Me
Little Lies
Everywhere

Stevie's singles:
Rhiannon
Dreams
Sara
Fireflies
Gypsy
Seven Wonders
Silver Springs

Lindsey's singles:
Go Your Own Way
Tusk
Big Love
Family Man


...ok....never mind.


(I wonder why it SEEMS that Lindsey had more? Could it be that his had more IMPACT than Stevie's? It's a given that all of Christine's were memorable. Other than "Dreams", "Gypsy" & "Silver Springs", the rest seem kind of inconsequential...not exactly the word I want to use, but I can't think of the exact word that fits what I'm trying to get at... to "GYOW", "Tusk" & "Big Love". Does anyone else have an idea of what I'm trying to get at, here? Absolutely NOT Stevie bashing in the least, but for some reason those three Lindsey singles seem to outweigh all the other Stevie singles besides the three I mentioned above.)
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  #43  
Old 08-13-2002, 06:12 PM
Hawkeye Hawkeye is offline
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what about RHIANNON. AND you forgot about Landslide and sisters of the Moon.
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  #44  
Old 08-13-2002, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye
what about RHIANNON. AND you forgot about Landslide and sisters of the Moon.
I'll never get why SOTM only charted at # 86 or something.

I was just being born at the time...so I don't have a good memory of it being out...but maybe people were sick of Stevie's 'witchy-fairy' crap at that point. (Rhiannon, GDW, SOTM, Straight Back...)

Ironically though...if I had to pick 4 of her songs that were my favorites...those would probably be the four.

And on a side note...SOTM is amazing live!
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  #45  
Old 08-14-2002, 02:33 PM
CarneVaca CarneVaca is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by chiliD
Now wait...
(I wonder why it SEEMS that Lindsey had more? Could it be that his had more IMPACT than Stevie's? It's a given that all of Christine's were memorable. Other than "Dreams", "Gypsy" & "Silver Springs", the rest seem kind of inconsequential...not exactly the word I want to use, but I can't think of the exact word that fits what I'm trying to get at... to "GYOW", "Tusk" & "Big Love". Does anyone else have an idea of what I'm trying to get at, here? )
I absolutely know what you mean. Before I got sick of classic rock stations, not only would I hear Go Your Own Way more than any other Fleetwood Mac song, but Lindsey's version of Oh Well was a common staple. The Chain (penned by all members) and Monday Morning were also played frequently, though probably not as much as Don't Stop, Rhiannon and Dreams. You Make Loving Fun was also played very often.
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