What you don't like of Lindsey music.

[Villavic]

Tough question, maybe. But sometimes is insteristing to criticize what we don't like about our idols.

I fell some Lindsey songs are... monotonous

[David]

Originally posted by Villavic
Tough question, maybe. But sometimes is insteristing to criticize what we don't like about our idols.

Apart from the impractical habit I have of zeroing in on specific instruments & tracking their tonal movement, I don't really enjoy listening to "Wrong," "Loving Cup," "This Is the Time," "Doing What I Can," "Turn It On," "Time Bomb Town," "Ricky," "Lola," "Come" & "Murrow."

I'm getting sick of a lot of things live, too, like "Second Hand News," "Eyes of the World," "Go Your Own Way" & "The Chain."

I still find the entire "Law & Order" album fascinating & fresh, as well as Lindsey's contributions to the "Buckingham Nicks" & "Fleetwood Mac" albums.

[sodascouts]

I think OOTC is sheer perfection, but I find Law and Order very mediocre. Nothing stands out to me on that album. It's not wretched, but I haven't listened to it straight through in years.

Go Insane has moments of brilliance and moments of inanity. I know I will probably be chastised for my close-mindedness when I say that I was completely unimpressed with the oh-so-avant-gard "Play in the Rain." Frankly, I found it completely lame. "I Must Go" isn't so much inane as it is grating to hear the same three sing-songy words ad nauseum.

On the other hand, "Loving Cup" totally rocks, "Slow Dancing" is fun, and "Go Insane" has evolved into a masterpiece (although its original version has become dated, like much of the album). Depsite the fact it's uneven, I like the Go Insane album better than Law and Order.

With BN and FM, I can say without exception I liked EVERYTHING he did - up until 1979. Then his work with them became uneven (as I've already said his solo work did). "That's Enough for Me" is one of my top 20 FM songs, but I can't even listen to "The Ledge." Mirage and Tango are the same way.

Then, the Dance, and SYW. He's back on top. I love his current work, with the exception of Murrow, which I think is a bit much. "Red Rover" and "Steal Your Heart Away" are in my top 10 FM Lindsey songs.

I don't love everything Lindsey's done, because sometimes I think he tries too hard - sometimes I've wondered if some choices he makes are based on what would be most "different" rather than what would be the most aesthetically enjoyable to the listener. Why? To prove something to others, to himself. But hey, he can do whatever he wants. I happen to like his more natural work.

JMHO!

Originally posted by David
Apart from the impractical habit I have of zeroing in on specific instruments & tracking their tonal movement, I don't really enjoy listening to [...] "Ricky,"

Did Lindsey write "Ricky"? Or was it a joint effort with Christine?

[BlueGrass]

I don't like how Go Insane sounds so 80s new Wave with the bouncy synths and fake drums. Listening to it now all I think about is the 80s, and how cheesy the instrumentals sound.

[AliP]

I don't like how it sometimes appears that he is still stuck in the 80s. I hate those weird background echoing voices he loves to still use. I think you can hear a little bit of it in EFO. Also don't like "Smile at You" how he thought having Stevie going "ahh, ahh, ahhhhh, etc" during the chorus was a good idea. yuk. I have to admit, I don't like any of his songs on Mirage except "Eyes" and I don't even listen to his songs on Tango. I know that is horrible. I guess I can tell that with Mirage he didn't feel like putting his all into it and with Tango, well we all know what the story is there.

I have to say that I do like Law and Order though. I have been listening to it alot lately. I absolutely love "Love From There, Love From There." I love Go Insane, especially "Bang the Drum" and "D.W Suite," not so much for their musical production but for the lyrics. I find "D.W. Suite" pretty inspirational and the lyrics in "Bang the Drum" somewhat sad, but definitely heartfelt especially the "one thing baby I think you should know" line.

I also agree with Nancy that he may try too hard. He seems to want to please himself more than anyone else. For instance, NGBA again is my absolute favorite song of his, but he seems to brush it off for its simplicity.

I also get a little annoyed how he is constantly talking about spontaneity but is almost the least spontaneous person I've ever seen. He repeats himself all the time by saying the same things, using the same lyrics, and almost the same production styles. In every Mirage concert I have he says the same thing he says in the Mirage video....how everyone thought they were breaking up etc. This hasn't changed much as he says the same things in every SYW concert as well.

[PenguinHead]

I have always found some of Lindsey's lyrics to be somewhat redundant. However, lyrically, I think he has shown a lot of growth in recent years.

I don't like his production technique of lately, where the harmonies of a chorus (in some songs) are blended into one generic mush...sometimes to the point where it doesn't sound like individual adults but more like the Lollipop Guild from the Wizard of Oz.

[Gazza]

The only thing I don't like with Lindsey is when he overproduces Stevies songs, which I think he did sometimes with the last album (Smile At You being the obvious example).

Other than that, from Steal your Heart Away to Come and Murrow, and Red Rover, I like just about everything of his on Say You Will (and the leftovers), and absolutely love Out Of The Cradle - which out of all of the albums he's been involved in creating, I would only put behind Rumours.

It's hard to critisize a guy who writes in so many styles and get's away with it, thanks to his obvious madness. I mean, tonight at Earls Court... The same guy who did Oh Diane had people waving the rock n roll hand symbol as he beat the living crap out his guitar on Come. Just as a performer, he's got to be one of the most underrated stars ever.

[Gazza]

Yeah sorry... His lyrics are sometimes a bit, well, crap. And I agree about him repeating the same lines every concert. That could definitely grate... But other than that... Not much else.

[Cammie]

Well, gosh...let's see...now
just like all bands their vocals and
speeches are repeated each concert!
Some songs grab at your heart...
some are so-so...some are FUN!!
Most of LB's are just great tunes!

We like Law and Order and think
TROUBLE is great both lyrically and
musically! Go Insane is a tad overly
dramatic like Stevie's songs about
romantic stuff! OOTC is just Superb!
LB's life was in a good place!!!Sky


ps...If YOU have ever performed you
know how easy you can say the wrong
thing when your on stage, a standard
speech saves you from that!!! Stevie
has a card taped to the floor so she
remembers which town they are in!

[xdreamsunwindx]

I'm sorry to say this, but I *hate* Law and Order. Save songs like Mary Lee Jones and Trouble. But other than those, blech. However, I LOVE both Go Insane and Out of the Cradle. I think that that is some of his best work.

Hmm... More Lindsey peves? Can't think of many...

I'm not that crazy of how he can over-produce some songs, Stevie's Gypsy, for example. I just think that that wasn't the feel she had wanted for the song, but that's just my opinion. But Gypsy is still a masterpiece .

The only other things I can think of are a few of his songs, Bwana, the original Not That Funny, Red Rover and Empire State. But other than that, there's more to love about LB than there is to dislike.

Btw, I love his speeches. lol.

[CarneVaca]

It's hard to argue with Lindsey's musical and production instincts. Keeping SYW out of the discussion for a minute, I would say my least favorite songs of his are generally those that didn't make the records. For instance, Ricky and Down Endless Street are rather mediocre, though I believe Down Endless Street might have turned into something digestable if he had really finished it. Teen Beat is a good for a couple listens, but then you get sick of it. This could have been another Eyes of the World or Go Your Own Way if finished. Book of Miracles, which I believe is actually a Stevie song, is as boring as anything.

Two exceptions: Goodbye Angel is a tremendous song. And You and I, Part I should have made the record, rather than Part II. Part I is a far superior song. I am also not crazy about Time Bomb Town, Empire State and Doing What I Can. The latter is, I believe, an unfortunate inclusion in an otherwise flawless album.

The Ledge is one of my favorite songs on Tusk. It, Bwana and Holiday Road are perfect examples of what attracts me to Lindsey's music: Simply put, it's wacky. And he proves you don't always need a message to make a song good. In fact, most of the early rock 'n roll was about attitude and fun, not message.

Go Insane must be viewed in the context of the 80s and what Lindsey was trying to achieve. This is the album in which he proved that a kitchen spoon and a toy piano can be put to good use in creating a musical masterpiece. This really is his "Pet Sounds." Go Insane is Lindsey at his creative best. Here is the mad genius at work, proving something to the world. He did it. As much as Cradle is a better album in many respects, no other work of Lindsey's has the cohesion and completeness of concept that Go Insane does. Yes, its sound is dated. Give it a few more years and it will be "in" again.

As for SYW, I've already written at length about the lack of cohesion. Lindsey failed on a couple of Stevie tunes because of a production that is too reminiscent of the 80s sound. I suspect this is more at her behest than his ultimate idea for the songs. As for his contributions to SYW, they too lack some cohesion as a body of work, but individually they are some of his best. I still do not care for Come though.

Lastly, how can one say Gypsy is overproduced but call it a masterpiece?

Gypsy is a masterpiece indeed. Great lyrics, vocals and melody coupled with a beautiful arrangement and amazing guitar work.

[xdreamsunwindx]

Originally posted by CarneVaca

Lastly, how can one say Gypsy is overproduced but call it a masterpiece?

Gypsy is a masterpiece indeed. Great lyrics, vocals and melody coupled with a beautiful arrangement and amazing guitar work.

It is a masterpiece. I just don't care for the production, but it's still a great song when it all comes down to it. I meant to call it a classic, which it is. Gypsy was a bad example, anyway. Something like the original Go Insane would've been a better example. While it's still a good song, the sound is awfully dated.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
As for SYW, I've already written at length about the lack of cohesion. Lindsey failed on a couple of Stevie tunes because of a production that is too reminiscent of the 80s sound. I suspect this is more at her behest than his ultimate idea for the songs.

I actually like the slight '80s sound to "Everybody Finds Out" and "Running Through The Garden."
"What's The World Coming To" and "Come" also have some of this, so I wouldn't disregard Lindsey's influence on the sound of any of these songs.
Either way, the marriage of some of the '80s production sensibilities with those of the new Millennium worked to very good effect on recent releases by No Doubt and Sugar Ray, and I think it works really well on 'Say You Will.'
I think it also provides a nice continuity between where they were when Stevie & Lindsey last recorded a studio album with Fleetwood Mac, and where they are today.

The big complaint I have about Lindsey's music is that, for me, a lot of times after the novelty of all the sonic wizardry wears off, there's little left in the song for me to enjoy.
All the bells and whistles and panning vocals are fun and interesting the first few times I listen, but then we get into my need for something more substantive, and the songs come up fairly empty. So I may like them a great deal and enjoy listening to them, but I don't love them.
'Go Insane' is a prime example of that.

It's like, "ok, we know you can make all kinds of neat sounds, but write a song that's going to move me, and then I'll really be impressed."

One can use the "movie-making" analogy there... in that a movie with a ton of special effects might look cool on the outset, but if it doesn't have a good story to tell, it's going to fall short.

Thankfully, he's well on his way to correcting that problem, finding a comfortable union between the ear-candy and damn-good lyrics.

Though unfortunately "Say Goodbye" and "Red Rover" are needlessly fussy in their arrangements and production, and that mars my enjoyment of them (Though Chrissy is right... the 'GoS' version of "Say Goodbye" is better).
I realize I'm in the minority there, but the acoustic "Big Love" was impressive because it was new and fresh, but then he did it with "Go Insane," and now the above mentioned songs, and I'm not so blown away anymore.

A simple approach, like "Never Going Back Again," would have been more welcome... but then, that's something you can chalk up to personal taste, as I realize a lot of people here love those songs just as they are, and a lot of people dislike them for the same reasons I mentioned.
It comes down to whatever appeals to the listener.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I actually like the slight '80s sound to "Everybody Finds Out" and "Running Through The Garden."
"What's The World Coming To" and "Come"

I am going to disagree here. What's the World Coming To is copped straight out of the Go Your Own Way and Monday Morning mold, down to the acoustic rhythm strum and the electric guitar licks. The power chords on Go Your Own Way and What's the World Coming To are played exactly the same way and in the same key. The only difference is the synthesized arpeggio in parts of the latter song. As for Come, well, it reminds me a lot more of what he did with This Is The Time than anything on Go Insane. I don't see an 80s connection to that song at all, except that his 90s sound (Cradle) was an evolution from things like Go Insane and Tango.

I'm really not familiar with No Doubt's or Sugar Ray's work, other than the songs that make me leap to change the dial should I ever find myself mistakingly listening to a commercial station while driving. I will say this, though: Gwen Steffani has a fabulous voice and she should stop singing in that deliberate weird way of hers. Her guest vocal on one of Brian Setzer's albums is absolutely gorgeous. She can sing.

bthankfully, he's well on his way to correcting that problem, finding a comfortable union between the ear-candy and damn-good lyrics.

Problem? No, no, no, my friend. Your lack of appreciation for it does not a problem make. There is depth in those works; it just happens to be sonic depth. You seem to prefer lyrical content, which is fine. Hey, believe it or not, most of the other stuff I listen to is for lyrical content, though there is a handful of other artists that primarily interest me for the music first. I appreciate Lindsey for the whole package, including the wonderful work he has done on some of Stevie's best songs.

Though unfortunately "Say Goodbye" and "Red Rover" are needlessly fussy in their arrangements and production, and that mars my enjoyment of them (Though Chrissy is right... the 'GoS' version of "Say Goodbye" is better).
I realize I'm in the minority there, but the acoustic "Big Love" was impressive because it was new and fresh, but then he did it with "Go Insane," and now the above mentioned songs, and I'm not so blown away anymore.

Disagree on Red Rover. There's a lot going on there, and it ain't merely a retread of Big Love or Go Insane acoustic. No, no. We're talking our man taking that sound a few steps up. He truly is pushing the envelope, as he likes to say. On Say Goodbye, I agree with you. I had the same initial reaction to the song, but I've grown so used to it and I absolutely love the lyrical content and the emotion that he taps, therefore it is my favorite from the album. Besides, Red Rover and Say Goodbye in lyrical content at least rival anything Stevie contributed for SYW.

Also, keep in mind that Go Insane and Big Love acoustic happened pretty much simultaneously. Lindsey performed both those versions during his 1993 solo tour, and I was blown away.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I am going to disagree here. What's the World Coming To is copped straight out of the Go Your Own Way and Monday Morning mold, down to the acoustic rhythm strum and the electric guitar licks. The power chords on Go Your Own Way and What's the World Coming To are played exactly the same way and in the same key. The only difference is the synthesized arpeggio in parts of the latter song. As for Come, well, it reminds me a lot more of what he did with This Is The Time than anything on Go Insane. I don't see an 80s connection to that song at all, except that his 90s sound (Cradle) was an evolution from things like Go Insane and Tango.

I can't really analyze the similar power chords, etc., given that I'm not a musician... but I was commenting on the production style, in which I definitely hear some of the '80s sound.
I might have been unclear about "Come"... that one reminds me of "Tango In The Night" in both form and execution, and definitely has a retro edge to it, in my opinion. I wasn't meaning to draw any comparisons to 'Go Insane' there.
But again, these statements have to be qualified by the fact that I have no problems with those '80s touches... I thought they added yet another terrific texture to the album.

I completely agree that lyrically "Red Rover" and "Say Goodbye" are right up there. For just the lyrics alone, "Say Goodbye" could be one of my all-time favorite L.B. songs.
Which is probably why I was so disappointed with the execution. Beautiful lyrics totally lost in a production mess. Like you said, "there's a lot going on there"... but unfortunately, for me at least, there's too much going on.

Don't get me wrong, I most definitely appreciate what makes Lindsey unique in Fleetwood Mac, and in the world of music in general, it's just that I think a lot of times in the past he was too preoccupied with creating interesting sounds, and forgot to focus on the heart of the songs.
Not a condemnation, just a comment.