Let's Show Some love For... "Straight Back"!

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by LukeA

In re: to "Gypsy"- the "Mirage" recording is great. They maximized/squeezed every ounce of potential out of that song- I mean, going WAY beyond just polishing the turd that is the BD version. Its not the band's fault "Gypsy" flopped as a single.

I agree that the BD version of Gypsy was a turd, but the Mirage version was a masterpiece. I don't remember its chart position but I wouldn't say it was a flop. In 1982 it was a huge radio staple. And how could we forget, it was the King of MTV.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by vivfox

I agree that the BD version of Gypsy was a turd, but the Mirage version was a masterpiece. I don't remember its chart position but I wouldn't say it was a flop. In 1982 it was a huge radio staple. And how could we forget, it was the King of MTV.

A brand new Fleetwood Mac song sung by the newly minted Miss Queen of Rock #1 Album Stevie Nicks, bolstered by the most expensive music video ever, had a far higher potential ceiling than #12 (its peak) on the charts. This was 1982- they were fully expecting it to go to #1, and weren't crazy for thinking it would.

[silvasprings]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

The article I remember was definitely about Mirage. I think it started back with Mirage but was even worse during the making of Tango.

Edit: found it, http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.ph...v2&id=184&c=11
I guess they are talking about the tour and the interview but I think it's certainly implied that it's something that happens in the studio too, all the "she gets bored in the studio" talk.

Wow, some of those comments were pretty harsh, poor Stevie, didn't they know that Robin was you know- kinda dying at this point it time...

Ease up a little.. it's the Lindsey and Christine bitching machine

[jeffd8382]

Originally Posted by Fiver

Hey, I'm totally with you on this, and I just discovered FM. I went from Rumours to the White Album to Tusk to Mirage.. and so on..

And I freakin' LOVE Mirage.(This includes ALL of Lindsey and Stevie's songs and Christine's. Love in Store sounds great live.) My third favorite FM album after Tusk and Rumours.

Also, thank you, awesome people who posted the LP version of Straight Back and the rehearsal, you rock!

You're welcome! And in case anyone missed it... you can listen to the original LP version of "Straight Back" HERE (http://songsoftheday.synthasite.com) (under January 13, 2010), and compare for yourself with the CD version...

I really enjoy the LP version (getting to hear certain instruments and vocals that get a little buried in the remix), but having heard the CD version first (and for years)... it sounds a little flat without those vocal overdubs that were added (sounding almost like an early outtake version of the song to me).

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by silvasprings

Wow, some of those comments were pretty harsh, poor Stevie, didn't they know that Robin was you know- kinda dying at this point it time...

Ease up a little.. it's the Lindsey and Christine bitching machine

You can see how Stevie would rub them the wrong way though: essentially ONE person was famous for the work that five people did. And it really was the work of the other four members besides Stevie who made the Fleetwood Mac sound, as they were the musicians. It'd rub me the wrong way too if I were Chris or Lindsey, and Stevie wasn't there most of the time... then swept in and tried to call the shots. I think it's safe to say Chris and Lindsey were suffering from a bit of jealousy as well. Lindsey's first album didn't even sell a tenth of what Stevie's did. These folks had spent essentially night and day together for the better part of 7 years too... so they were all just sick of each other. I fully understand why Lindsey and Chris said the things they did... they could have been much, much meaner!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by vivfox

And how could we forget, it was the King of MTV.

Yeah, you could not get away from that video. I never liked it. In fact, it moves me more now, when I see it playing up there on stage behind the present day Macsters, than it ever did back then.

I'd love to see the affectionate wink Christine threw Lindsey's way during that interview. Dare I say it. So cute.

Michele

[Phil]

Jesus David, that's quite a reaction to what was most definitely a "subjective" posting! Your assertion that my observations are stated as fact is merely your, err, observation after all.

I'd have preferred either of those, as well, to "Straight Back," but the band, for whatever reason, picked the three we got. The band has never addressed why Nicks has three songs on that album instead of four or five, so we can toss our guesses around.

Yep and that's exactly what I was doing. You may notice the inclusion of the odd question mark concluding a sentence or two within my posting, indicating a proposed idea or notion, not a statement of fact. Nothing ambiguous about that I would have thought.

In France for six or eight weeks only, pulling together basic tracks. In talking about that album, the band has always made it sound as if the majority of recording & virtually all the mixing were done in Los Angeles over the course of about 12 months (roughly, June 1981 to June 1982).

I have no reason to doubt what you state but that seems pretty much par for the course with Fleetwood Mac. Stevie's studio role has always been considered minimal by the band because being principally a vocalist and not a musician, she is essentially only required at intervals. If she were actually in attendance for that entire six to eight week period, I would have considered that a more prominent presence for her than usual. Just my thoughts mind!

That's your opinion, Phil. We all have our opinions, but you put forth yours as if it were observable fact, plain to one & all. I don't think much of "Straight Back" as a song & I'm not sure I think that "Gypsy" is terribly good, either. But I love the tracks that Fleetwood Mac builds around them, for which I give all of them & their engineers credit.

Yes that would be it David - my opinion, presented clearly as just that and nothing more (ie not an "observable fact"). If you've interpreted my opinions as fact, then I'd urge you to re-read my comments. Your thoughts regarding "Straight Back" and "Gypsy" are as valid as mine, and anyone else's for that matter. We all seem to co-exist rather well around these parts don't you think?

Maybe. Is there some way we can ask Lindsey, Mick, & Christine whether they were unwilling to include more Nicks material on Mirage because Stevie's natural brilliance cowed them? Maybe Stevie Nicks tried to buy her way out of the band, one of a bunch of rumors at the time. How much leverage did she have within the group at the time? I'm not sure she had any more than any of the others. Her solo success gave her a lot more leverage of her own career, but the idea that she was able to steer Fleetwood Mac this way or that starting in 1982 is pretty silly to me. Why didn't she demand a fourth song on Mirage? She didn't want to tour with the band in 1982, so why did she go at all?

That line of mine ("Maybe the potential embarrassment of being overshadowed by her natural brilliance, not to mention her rising star at the time, put paid to the inclusion of any additional material?") was designed to be tongue-in-cheek, but if the irony was lost on you, well then I just put that down to you being rather more literal of mind than I had previously imagined. No crime in that I suppose.

Furthermore, one need not ask any member of the band if they had "cowed" in Stevie's brilliance - it was simply written all over their faces. The sense of humiliation and defeat resonates from their very being to this day...

With regard to Stevie's leverage within the band, I doubt she had any whatsoever. The arrogance and Svengalism that abounded courtesy of those around her at the time put paid to that notion.

Her solo success gave her a lot more leverage of her own career, but the idea that she was able to steer Fleetwood Mac this way or that starting in 1982 is pretty silly to me.

Whose idea was this? Certainly not mine.

Why didn't she demand a fourth song on Mirage?

Why indeed - but then that's what we're here for my friend. Without our boundless imagination and speculation, what would this forum be?

Based on my observations, you're definitely in a minority on that point, a very small minority (numbering one, to be exact). But these are subjective preference matters, not objectively provable facts.

Once again, I think I was reasonably clear about being in a self-proclaimed minority regarding my thoughts on Lindsey's production of "Gypsy". Whether that numbers one or even less (depending on whether I can be considered a whole person) doesn't alter the fact that it is my opinion, not a "provable fact". However, I guess it remains to be seen whether I am the only one who feels this way, you never know my friend, as exacting as you are, there could be another deluded soul out there somewhere...

I love the way the Heartbreakers play in general, but those workouts of "Gypsy" are sort of dumb to me -- just fast-paced blues rock without any particular character beyond that & certainly no dynamics, no smooth texture, & no pentatonic hook.

Your thoughts again my dear, but hey, there's nuthin' wrong with that! I (personally) prefer this straightforward approach and consider Stevie's vocals to imbue sufficient character for my liking - they remain the focal point with no distractions and that's the way I like it.

Again we're discussing subjective impressions, but my impression is that Lindsey (in other words, Fleetwood Mac) added more than a "few flourishes here & there" (what flourishes?). The band built an elaborate orchestration into the track that was redolent of the complexity & exuberance of the arrangements & shape of tracks on "Rumours." Incidentally, the vocal harmonies on that track are emblematic of Buckingham's vocal-layering methods, not Nicks's (whose style of vocal layering you can hear on her own albums).

"What flourishes?" You're a touchy little madam ain't ya? As much as it pains me to admit, I have to disagree with you about the "elaborate orchestration" courtesy of our Linds. Frankly, I find his arrangement on this particular track to be rather pedestrian, not to mention repetitive. The bridge section in particular, in my opinion, is dull and uninspired. Thankfully, Stevie was able to disguise this shortcoming with a powerhouse vocal that wrenched us all from our slumber. Thank you Stevie!!

Granted, the layered backing vocals are typical of Lindsey and yes, they are beautifully employed this time around - you got me there! However, your assertion that these vocal harmonies are "emblematic of Buckingham's vocal-layering methods, not Nicks's" gives me moment for pause... What comes to mind is Lindsey's love of the derivative, you know, rooting from the vast canons of Phil Spector or Brian Wilson and then passing it off as invention or innovation on his part.

I should also point out that I'm not a major fan of the Rumours album, exuberant complexity or not. Sure, it contains masterpieces such as "Songbird", "Oh Daddy" and the salvaged "Silver Springs", but it is also home to the (in my opinion) worst song of all time - yep that dreaded "Go Your Own Way". Now that is one mighty turd!!

In pop music, a great track is a great song. A great song is also a great song, but it's not a necessity of a great track. More than just about any other contemporary rock band, Fleetwood Mac is proof of that, over & over again.

Yet who decides what is what? Me or you or anyone of the rest of us? Who can say? Come to think of it, perhaps I could convince all and one of such an observable fact?

Maybe I'm one of the people who underestimate her production skills. But I've never heard or seen evidence that she even has any production skills -- not in the sense that I understand production.

Maybe you have learning difficulties? Just a hunch.

I guess she was "instrumental" (whatever that means) in shaping some of her songs & not all that instrumental in shaping others.

I'll have to leave that up to you to ponder as I doubt I'm capable of an explanation...

She did? Always? Can you fill out that assertion any?

I feel in my nether regions (and I never argue with those) that Stevie most definitely ALWAYS knew and continues to know what she wants from a studio recording. That's why she's still contemplating taking a hit out on Lindsey after hearing the final Say You Will production (her angst, not mine mate).

I think he (in other words, Fleetwood Mac) polished more than a few of her turds; but also polished more than a few turds by Chris McVie & Lindsey Buckingham.

Well one man's turd is another's profiterole...

If Fleetwood Mac had never made any albums but had only published its songs on sheets of paper, would we even be here?

I reckon I would be - I'd be trying to decide between reinterpreting the material or wiping my arse with it... and you'd probably be crying into your beer.