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  #31  
Old 02-06-2020, 05:56 PM
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Fleetwood Mac would still play packed arenas without Stevie, too. and they played packed arenas without Christine. Fleetwood Mac is a brand.
Based on what, though? It’s a hypothetical. Fleetwood Mac can play arenas without Lindsey. Fleetwood Mac can play arenas without Christine. Stevie can play arenas without Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood Mac has never done an arena tour without Stevie.

While I realize it wasn’t called Fleetwood Mac, the LBCM tour wasn’t especially well attended, at least by Fleetwood Mac standards. Meanwhile, Stevie had her biggest solo tour in 2017.

As for Fleetwood Mac as a brand, while it was pre-1997 and didn’t feature any of the classic vocalists, the Fleetwood Mac brand itself wasn’t enough to get past opening act or packaged tour level 94-95. Obviously, an MJLC version would be viable, but not at the arena level.

So, again, where is the evidence that Fleetwood Mac would still be an arena band without the member who has sold 30 million albums independent of the band? There‘s no way Mick and John were going to gamble that Fleetwood Mac would remain a huge concert draw without Stevie when they knew they would be with Stevie.
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Old 02-06-2020, 06:52 PM
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  #32  
Old 02-06-2020, 07:30 PM
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Again, Stevie touring arenas as a headliner has not always been the case.
Not always, but in 2017 it was, the same year LBCM hit the road. Stevie played to arenas, Lindsey and Christine together did not. And Stevie now has the “two time Hall of Famer” thing going for her. Mick and Mike have both recently said that the band won’t be doing another tour of that magnitude again, so it’s a moot point, now.
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  #33  
Old 02-06-2020, 09:13 PM
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While I realize it wasn’t called Fleetwood Mac, the LBCM tour .
exactly. Fleetwood Mac is a brand. Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie are not.

Fleetwood Mac is "in" brand, nowadays. people go to their shows to say they saw a legendary band and for singalongs while drinking beer.

Fleetwood Mac before their re-grouping in 1997 were has-beens and a laughing stock ("i'd rather jack" remember?).
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  #34  
Old 02-06-2020, 10:11 PM
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exactly. Fleetwood Mac is a brand. Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie are not.

Fleetwood Mac is "in" brand, nowadays. people go to their shows to say they saw a legendary band and for singalongs while drinking beer.
However, that brand is too heavily associated with Stevie these days. It would be viable, but it wouldn’t be an arena band.

If there had to be a choice between Stevie and Lindsey and there was no possibility of both being in the band together anymore, Mick, John, and Christine knew from prior history that Fleetwood Mac could survive and continue playing arenas without Lindsey. Sure, they could have taken the creative path, but their relevance as a recording entity passed them by. The Eagles had a hit with “Long Road Out of Eden,” but it’s never going to be held in the same regard as their ‘70s albums. The same would be true for any new Fleetwood Mac album.

So, do you make a new album that will be largely forgotten in a few years and make $3-$6 million, or do you skip the album and make $12 million, keeping in mind that the core 12-15 songs will be the same in either set?
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  #35  
Old 02-06-2020, 11:05 PM
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However, that brand is too heavily associated with Stevie these days. It would be viable, but it wouldn’t be an arena band.
as you said somewhere above - we don't have any proof of that. it's just a calculation that may or may not pan out if tried. i can almost guarantee you they would have been arena band. BuckVie without the name brand recognition were touring sheds, so FM brand? of course they can tour arenas. many other bands of their era are touring without their best known members and still filling arenas, just on the brand alone.

however, you are right that Mick and promoters didn't want to risk the unknown, just in case. they didn't want to in 2011/12 and didn't want to in 2018. and apparently you are similarly risk averse, or you think you'd be.

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So, do you make a new album that will be largely forgotten in a few years and make $3-$6 million, or do you skip the album and make $12 million
what do you do? in their situation? when they already made millions on millions? you disband and keep the peace in the family. you keep the only legendary band with all classic-era members still around and able to perform intact. you don't break it up into pieces.
.
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  #36  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:13 AM
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as you said somewhere above - we don't have any proof of that. it's just a calculation that may or may not pan out if tried. i can almost guarantee you they would have been arena band. BuckVie without the name brand recognition were touring sheds, so FM brand? of course they can tour arenas. many other bands of their era are touring without their best known members and still filling arenas, just on the brand alone.

however, you are right that Mick and promoters didn't want to risk the unknown, just in case. they didn't want to in 2011/12 and didn't want to in 2018. and apparently you are similarly risk averse, or you think you'd be.


what do you do? in their situation? when they already made millions on millions? you disband and keep the peace in the family. you keep the only legendary band with all classic-era members still around and able to perform intact. you don't break it up into pieces.
.
Idiot Mick can't live on making a half a million. He needs big bucks to live the life that he truly can't afford.

The legacy of FM means nothing to him.

Hitching his broken down wagon to $tevie's sagging 3 note goat tractor is the best chess move he has.
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  #37  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:27 AM
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as you said somewhere above - we don't have any proof of that. it's just a calculation that may or may not pan out if tried. i can almost guarantee you they would have been arena band. BuckVie without the name brand recognition were touring sheds, so FM brand?
Maybe bigger sheds, or maybe completely fill the sheds they played, but not arenas. The band has largely become synonymous with Stevie (which I’m not happy about).

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of course they can tour arenas. many other bands of their era are touring without their best known members and still filling arenas, just on the brand alone.
Except the missing best known member, in most cases, isn’t actively working or is dead. Lindsey put a solo tour together after getting sacked that had zero impact on the Fleetwood Mac tour. If they had parted ways with Stevie, she could have easily put a solo tour together that would have completely derailed a Fleetwood Mac tour.

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however, you are right that Mick and promoters didn't want to risk the unknown, just in case. they didn't want to in 2011/12 and didn't want to in 2018. and apparently you are similarly risk averse, or you think you'd be..
Again, there was no guarantee that a Fleetwood Mac tour would be successful without Stevie, but it was guaranteed that it would be with Stevie. Fleetwood Mac was a weaker brand in 1990 than in 2018, but they still managed to pack arenas without Lindsey, but with Billy Burnette and Rick Vito.

In any case, it’s not my band. I don’t know any of them. As for risk, if it had been up to me, they would have fired Dave Mason in ‘96 and gone on as a quartet with Bekka and Billy for at least one or two more albums. But, just as in 2018, money called.

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what do you do? in their situation? when they already made millions on millions? you disband and keep the peace in the family. you keep the only legendary band with all classic-era members still around and able to perform intact. you don't break it up into pieces.
Or, they could just get two highly respected musicians and get the bag of money one last time. And, it’s hard to take the “keeping the classic lineup in tact” argument seriously when a lot of people, including Lindsey, thought of who they could get in place of Stevie during the 14-15 tour.
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  #38  
Old 02-07-2020, 08:53 AM
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And, it’s hard to take the “keeping the classic lineup in tact” argument seriously when a lot of people, including Lindsey, thought of who they could get in place of Stevie during the 14-15 tour.
With whom did Lindsey speculate about replacing Stevie for 2014-15, and did he do so publicly? And was it because Stevie was reluctant to tour, then even with Christine back?
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  #39  
Old 02-07-2020, 10:43 AM
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With whom did Lindsey speculate about replacing Stevie for 2014-15, and did he do so publicly? And was it because Stevie was reluctant to tour, then even with Christine back?
Fans at the hotel bar after shows, because of Stevie’s reluctance to record.
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  #40  
Old 02-07-2020, 02:00 PM
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Interestingly, Lindsey was the opener for Tina Turner's 1993 tour. A friend of mine saw the show in Montreal, Canada.

I remember her telling me that as it was a Tina audience, no one knew who Lindsey was until he did 'Go Your Own Way', and then he was recognized only as 'what's his name from Fleetwood Mac'.
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  #41  
Old 02-07-2020, 09:59 PM
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Maybe bigger sheds, or maybe completely fill the sheds they played, but not arenas. .
and of course bigger sheds with their lawns can take more people than arenas. so now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

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Except the missing best known member, in most cases, isn’t actively working or is dead.
nope i'm not talking about those cases. you have beach boys touring at the same time as Brian Wilson. GnR at the same time as Axl Rose (well, not this year, lol!). the list goes on. come on, you know better!

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Lindsey put a solo tour together after getting sacked that had zero impact on the Fleetwood Mac tour.
aren't you the same guy who was arguing to the end of the world and back how FM just had to fire Lindsey because he wanted to tour solo in between FM dates and therefore take away their revenue? and the rest of us were saying how that's absolute bs. glad you finally came over to our side, took you a while!

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Again, there was no guarantee that a Fleetwood Mac tour would be successful without Stevie, but it was guaranteed that it would be with Stevie. Fleetwood Mac was a weaker brand in 1990 than in 2018, but they still managed to pack arenas without Lindsey, but with Billy Burnette and Rick Vito.
nobody is disagreeing with that, that's why promoters voted to fire Lindsey instead of firing Stevie, it's a difference between a secure vs less secure deal. but FM could tour and fill arenas without Stevie, on the bases of their brand. a bit cheaper though. and maybe not sell out every show (which they didn't even with her anyway!). and there would be some disappointed people expecting Stevie leaving the show same as there were disappointed people about crappy sounding band all over Europe. yet fakewoods and promoters didn't care, they pocketed the money.

as for 1990, it was the time before the interwebs. people here talk about so many people going to the shows and not having any idea who will be in the band. apples and oranges - and again, you know better!
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  #42  
Old 02-07-2020, 10:03 PM
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Interestingly, Lindsey was the opener for Tina Turner's 1993 tour. A friend of mine saw the show in Montreal, Canada.

I remember her telling me that as it was a Tina audience, no one knew who Lindsey was until he did 'Go Your Own Way', and then he was recognized only as 'what's his name from Fleetwood Mac'.
i've been saying that over and over on these boards and some don't want to believe it - people don't know his name. unless you tell them he's a Go Your Own Way guy / Fleetwood Mac guitarist. that's why he can walk the streets of cities without too many people recognizing him and enjoy relatively normal life.
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  #43  
Old 02-08-2020, 07:06 AM
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i've been saying that over and over on these boards and some don't want to believe it - people don't know his name. unless you tell them he's a Go Your Own Way guy / Fleetwood Mac guitarist. that's why he can walk the streets of cities without too many people recognizing him and enjoy relatively normal life.
So true. Its also why its hard to sell tickets to a Lindsey show. When I saw Buck/Vie I had people ask me while I was in line who was playing the casino. When I told them Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie, they all exclaimed....Who??

In the early days remember the photo of the band where they thought Lindsey was the female (Stevie) and Stevie was the man (Lindsey). Many just referred to them as the band with those 2 ladies in it. But it got crazy when people started referring to Stevie as the lead singer of the band. I always believed that irked the band so much to purposely not release any Stevie single as the lead single off any album. They also only kept her to only 3 songs. Except for Angel, Stevie also never had a song as the first track on any album. I never believed any of this was a "coincidence."
I wish they would have axed one of Lindsey's songs on Mirage and included "Smile at you." That album needed an angry rocker but they kept everything "music box."
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  #44  
Old 02-08-2020, 12:26 PM
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So true. Its also why its hard to sell tickets to a Lindsey show. When I saw Buck/Vie I had people ask me while I was in line who was playing the casino. When I told them Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie, they all exclaimed....Who??"
exactly.

so when people go around saying look BuckVie with 2 FM front people didn't sell as many tickets as FM last year with the other 2 front people you gotta wonder whether they are willfully ignorant or just plain ignorant of the branding power.

BuckVie under Fleetwood Mac name is a completely different beast than BuckVie under 2 names nobody knows.

NickVie under Fleetwood Mac name has 2 brands in it - the biggest one - Fleetwood Mac, and the 2nd one - Stevie Nicks.

it's been interesting to watch push and pull in advertising over the last 2 years between Mick and Stevie - Mick trying to preserve really hard a Fleetwood Mac brand separate from Stevie Nicks brand. and Stevie and her people and fans for years tried to make those 2 brands synonymous with Stevie Nicks. i've seen tweets that said - i've seen FM and they sucked! then they corrected themselves and said - actually it was Stevie Nicks solo.

so 2 opposite forces played over the last 2 years -
  • Stevie was happy that with LB ouster she takes a clearly lead role in the band now, and maybe finally can realize that decades long ambition that her fans have been pushing so hard - that FM is SN. with Lindsey there, that would have never happened behind the scenes.
  • Mick has been pushing hard all these different versions of FM and FM is all different members, always changing.; he's trying to keep the reigns of the band being completely handed over to Stevie's people, while simultaneously buttering up and appeasing Stevie (guess he's doing that by mainly spitting on LB whenever wherever he can?) so he can keep cashing in.
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  #45  
Old 02-09-2020, 03:08 PM
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I have to agree. Buckingham McVie was so out in left field as a name brand. And, the tickets actually did well in my book considering they had to put that together last minute. The tour picked up momentum and even added another leg.

However, had Mick and John Joined them without Goat, then I believe it would have been far more successful as Fleetwood Mac.

And furthermore, I enjoyed the Billy/Rick shows far more than Mike and Neil shows. Rick and Billy shows were explosive, deep rich sound, wonderful energy, and they were a force. Billy even sounds better on LB songs.

The Mike and Neil shows had some great moments, but flat, flatter, flattest in so many areas. Gypsy made me want to leave. Christine actually played more keys than I expected, but I could barely hear her.
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