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  #16  
Old 02-06-2007, 02:43 PM
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doodyhead doodyhead is offline
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Default out of phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickshoot View Post
I'm not suggestiong that I will sound like Peter green by simply modding my guitar. I'm not very good. Peter's guitar had a distinct tone. It was from his bass pickup being put in backwards and the wiring being what is known as out of phase. It is sometimes very similar to B.B Kings tone. B.B.s guitar a Gibson 355 , has a 5 postion switch. Some of the postions have both pickups on "out of phase". You can hear the tone on a lot of Gary Moore's playing. Gary's playing does not sound that much like Peter's but his tone sometimes sounds like Peter's because it is the same guitar. I agree the magic in Peter's playing is in his heart and soul, but a lot of that tone came from that guitar.
Does the Gary Moore signature Les Paul have the sound?
Thanks for the info on the Page model.Way too costly for me.
And yes I would love to hear clips with that mod.
I am almost through with the Peter Green biography. Do any of the Fleetwood Mac bio's have a lot of Green info. I am not very interested in news about the modern day Mac.
What B B King had in the 60's was a Gibson ES 355 Stereo/Varitone. which included a rotary dial that went to two separate outputs. he plugged them into two different amps. this was a stock guitar (if such a thing could be said of that cherry beauty. the pickups were wired to the dial to change the mix going to the amplifiers. I have not researched it but in my random visits to music stores there are several guitars that have an out of phase setting. I think the Jimmy Page Guitar is just plain Highway robbery. Yiu might consider getting the book "electronics for guitarists" this is available at Sam Ash or Guitar Center. They actually go over the wiring diagrams for the various Les Pauls. Of course ttyou also need the pickups of that vintage or start winding coils to approximate their sound. This is how eddie van halen started.
good luck. PS I doubt that Gary Moore did anything. He mostly used other Gibsons when he got money. He broke Peter's in a car accident and used it sparingly. The video's of him show another faded suburst les paul with dimarzio pickups

vinnie c
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Old 02-06-2007, 03:27 PM
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  #17  
Old 02-06-2007, 06:20 PM
Han Solo Han Solo is offline
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Kickshoot; reversing the neck pickup will have little effect, other than looks. For out-of-phase sounds you have several options. Wiring out-of-phase should get you close, but beware as not all wirings will work by just reversing the leads.

You can also ( As I did) open up the neck pickup and flip the magnet. If you are not used to making modifications to your guitar, I suggest to have this done by a guitar-tech.
Several pickup makers offer a Peter Green set (WCR, Seymour Duncan) with correct wiring instructions.

I would also suggest becoming a member at the Les Paul Forum ( www.lespaulforum.com ). If you do a search there on "Green" , you will find loads of info regarding Peter Green, his gear, his guitar and getting that out-of-phase tone. Good luck!
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  #18  
Old 02-06-2007, 06:30 PM
Han Solo Han Solo is offline
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Here is a Peter Green Mod tone demonstration:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6qkF_6LNPA
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2007, 09:26 AM
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doodyhead doodyhead is offline
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Default Is it the guitar or the player?

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Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
Here is a Peter Green Mod tone demonstration:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6qkF_6LNPA
That was fine playing. Modifying your Les Paul is not for the faint at heart. Peter Green, in interviews had mixed emotions about what he did. He also had mixed emotions about the guitar itself. In recent statements he wishes that maybe he did not let it go. We all have regrets. I had a 60s Gibson ES355. I found that in some sense the sound was inherent in the design of the body. Semi Hollow body Gibsons had that horn like tone when you were close to feeding back on certain settings. It was a lovely guitar. I sold it when I had to pay for the birth of my daughter. I do not regret that at all, but I do remember the guitar fondly.The Les paul Custom I have now is a recent Custom Shop model. It has its own distinct (unmistakable Les Paul)sound, then it has the one I give to it.
Good Luck. You might try, as I did some years back, fooling with an expendible guitar that you like playing. If you get the sound you like, you will have that too.

doodyhead
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  #20  
Old 02-07-2007, 10:38 AM
kickshoot kickshoot is offline
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I have seen that mod demonstration before. That guy is a great player. I have seen ads for that wcr pickup set. It is very expensive. I have never seen the duncan green set. Is it more reasonable. I had thought about getting the duncan pearly gates pickup. It is based on B. Gibbons '59 lp. I thought being a 59 it should be similar. I thought the pick up being backwards would make the guitar sound more mid rangey. The active pick up would be closer to the bridge making it more trebly. I know there is more than one way to wire pick ups out of phase. I was going to get a tech to do it. I guess I need to research which way it was wired to get the tone. I used to have a Gibson ES 330 way back. It was a nice guitar. It had 2 P-90's and the same shape as a 335. It did not have the out of phase sound . I had a Gibson L-6 S years ago. It did have a rotary switch. At least 2 of the positions were out of phase if I remember right. I have a Ibanez ar 250 which is set up similarly to a les paul. I may get the mod done to it before I get it done to my Les Paul to see how it comes out.
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  #21  
Old 02-07-2007, 10:52 AM
kickshoot kickshoot is offline
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I take it putting the pickup in upside down would have the same effect as the guy in the video turning the magnet around.
Has anyone heard the Gary Moore signature LP. I have seen a couple of them go on ebay for around $1500- 1800. The bass pick up is reversed on it.
Has any one heard the vintage Icon guitar that is based on the PG les paul.
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  #22  
Old 02-07-2007, 10:58 AM
kickshoot kickshoot is offline
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Hans Solo is that you playing guitar on that clip. That is some great playing.
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  #23  
Old 02-07-2007, 02:09 PM
zoork_1 zoork_1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickshoot View Post
[...]...And yes I would love to hear clips with that mod...
Look for a private message...

//Zoork
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  #24  
Old 02-07-2007, 03:28 PM
Han Solo Han Solo is offline
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No, that's not me in the video. Putting the pickup in upside down will not have the same effect; the magnetic orientation will be the same i.e. the North and South-pole of the magnet are still connected in the wiring the same way.

You have to alter the flow of the pickup's signal in conjuction to the bridge pickup from North-South/North-South to South/North North/South.

Therefore you have two options:
a) Flip the magnet.
b) Rewire for out of phase.

Indeed some Gibson models have out of phase wiring stock. Most Les Pauls do not. If I recall correctly the Gary Moore LP did come with out of phase wiring.

If you are able to try the mod on one of your other guitars first that would be nice ofcourse, but you'll need individual volume controls for each pickup to make it work. I am not familiar with the Ibanez AR.
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  #25  
Old 02-08-2007, 11:14 AM
kickshoot kickshoot is offline
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Thank you Zoork. I am at a University of Memphis computer lab right now and can not listen to it. I will listen to it when I get home.
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  #26  
Old 02-08-2007, 11:20 AM
kickshoot kickshoot is offline
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Thank you Hans Solo for the info. I am going to get as much info as possible and get the mod done to my Ibanez first and see how it comes out. That way I will know if anything needs to be done differently for my les paul. I also have a les paul with P90's. I have heard the PRS Se guitar with P-90's it is wired with the middle position out of phase. I understand that is mush easier with single coil pick ups. I was thinking of having my single coil Les Paul rewired that way. I bought an Eric Clapton strat yesterday. It is great. I got a great deal on it trading a strat I already had. It has lace sensor pick ups in it and a built in boost. It is a few years old. The model has changed over the years. The built in boost is great.
Does anyone know anything about those Pearly gates pick ups.
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  #27  
Old 02-08-2007, 02:45 PM
zoork_1 zoork_1 is offline
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Default Tech info

I found this a while ago, it might be interesting....

http://www.singlecoil.com/docs/paula.pdf

Best regards
//Zoork
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  #28  
Old 02-09-2007, 12:21 PM
kickshoot kickshoot is offline
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Thank you Zoork. That is very interesting.
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  #29  
Old 02-09-2007, 05:30 PM
zoork_1 zoork_1 is offline
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Default Well...

I'm clearly not trying to turn feeling into pickups, guitars construction, wiring, etc. But as you people might have guessed I'm interested in gear. (I've just returned a Fender BandMaster 1965 to the local dealer, and I really liked it.) Does any of you know what amps PG played mostely (beside Orange once or twice)?
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  #30  
Old 02-11-2007, 04:30 AM
zoork_1 zoork_1 is offline
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Default Sample - Youtube

LP freaks....

You'll find the sample ("Peter Green Pickup modification.wmv") at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apH_K6VWCPg

//Zoork
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