"The hope rises again and the dream lives on . . . ." DNC chat

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Great speech tonight by Michelle Obama . . . .

I thought so too. I thought the kids on stage was a bit over the top, but it will play well to Middle America because it portrays them as a tight family, which they likely are but were not really perceived as such.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Of course I wasn't joking about his illness.

But the "last" of an outstanding generation? Ted Kennedy?

You took the words right out of my mouth.. or the thoughts right out of my brain.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

You took the words right out of my mouth..

I rather amazes me that you venerate Ronald Reagan for a thing done while Gov. of Calif. and apparently completely ignore his bad acts as Pres., which were many. Yet, you cannot do the same for The Kennedy's, who have done many good if not great things for America despite their personal lives.

I think it would be interesting to see exactly what people hate about the Kennedy's voting records and policies.

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

or the thoughts right out of my brain.

I think you give yourself too much credit

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

And as far as the other political dynasty, how's the Iraq thing going? Oh yeah,
we are winning no thanks to the Democrats.

What exactly are we winning? How many have had to die? How many lies were handed to us? And for what?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

What exactly are we winning? How many have had to die? How many lies were handed to us? And for what?

I know. And, if toppling SH and setting upp a govt. were our goals, I suggest we successfully did that a year or two ago.

Again, I think it is interesting now that W says it is time to leave with an established timetable that all but mirrors the timetable the D's have been screaming for, it suddenly is a win

[Steviefan49]

I had to share this awesome article with you guys this morning..

Obama faces twin task in wooing Clinton backers By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer
Tue Aug 26, 3:43 AM ET



DENVER - Meet Cindy Lerner and Leeann Ormsbee, the two faces of Barack Obama's struggle to win over Hillary Rodham Clinton's most fervent supporters — a task that could determine whether he becomes president.

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They travel in different social and economic circles: one white-collar and financially safe, one working-class and less secure. They have different educations, backgrounds and reasons for backing Clinton's presidential bid.

But both are self-described Democrats who say they may not vote for Obama this fall. And in that, they personify the complexity and urgency of his efforts to close rifts left by a marathon primary.

The most striking story line of the Democratic convention's first day was the tenacity and emotion of Clinton backers. They unapologetically threatened to disrupt the four-day event's unity theme, demanding that Clinton be honored with a prime-time nominating roll call vote on Wednesday — whether she wants it or not.

In conversations with die-hard Clinton backers, it became increasingly clear that her campaign was at least as much about them as about her. With 10 weeks to go to Obama's showdown with Republican John McCain, they remain loath to turn it loose, even if their doggedness might help the GOP keep the White House.

"I'm not there yet," said Lerner, a Miami lawyer, as she sat with fellow Florida delegates Monday wearing a Clinton button and a frown. "I hope we can use this convention to help Obama's campaign and his administration understand what millions of women in this country live everyday in terms of a lack of respect."

Lerner, 55, cited unequal pay, unfair workplace promotions and a "good ol' boy network that is still alive and well in the corporate world and in the political world."

"Delegates all over the country feel like I do," she said.

Ormsbee, meanwhile, was far away, cleaning houses in Waterford, Ohio. Single, 29, with a high school education, she might have trouble relating to Lerner's anger. Her concerns are mostly pocketbook and kitchen-table affairs, she said.

Clinton won her heart more by promising to fight for the working class than by talking of glass ceilings. But Ormbee's doubts about Obama are no less pressing than Lerner's. And she, too, feels Clinton has been disrespected.

Obama "made a foolish choice" in picking Sen. Joe Biden as his running mate, Ormsbee said in a telephone interview. "He could have been president if he had picked Hillary. How stupid can you be? It seems like he did it to spite her."

In battleground states such as Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Florida, Obama needs to win the vote of every Clinton supporter he possibly can. But he must appeal to them with different themes, to address their varying grievances and fears.

Lerner and many professional women like her saw Clinton's campaign as a chance to redeem their own struggles against sexism and hundreds of slights, large and small, over the years. They want empathy and respect from Obama, and Clinton is their surrogate.

Eleanor Strickland, a Florida delegate and Clinton supporter, has a master's degree in advertising and a successful career behind her. But she remembers a Chicago ad agency directing her to train a man with less education and fewer qualifications to be an account executive.

"There was no thought that a woman could be an account executive," she said.

Hearing that Clinton might not seek a full-blown roll call of her name in nomination, Strickland said: "I think she's being pressured. It's disrespectful. ... I think she was robbed."

She shared a Denver taxi with Florida delegate Catherine Leisek, an art professor and fellow Clinton backer. When Leisek worked at an art institute in 1980, a male co-worker said, "Honey, can you type this?"

No, Leisek had replied, adding that her secretary might.

In Garretsville, Ohio, Susan Carroll also is a Democrat and Clinton backer. But she can't match the college degrees and salaries that Leisek and Strickland have enjoyed. She packages cheese in a factory, and worries about paying bills and obtaining affordable health care.

Carroll, 44, said she is not sure how she will vote in November. "I want to start reading and learning more" about what Obama and McCain are proposing, she said.

While Obama addresses the feminist-related resentments of women like Cindy Lerner, he almost must speak to the economic worries of the Susan Carrolls. Polls show him struggling to attract significant numbers of white Democrats without college educations who supported Clinton in the primaries.

In Denver, Clinton admirer Chris Lomas, 45, has reconciled herself to backing Obama. But she thinks she knows why so many of her sisters have not.

The contest between the two "was so close, and went on so long," said Lomas, a first-year law student and Florida delegate. "People got so emotionally involved."

Obama has 10 weeks to speak to those emotions and, if possible, keep McCain from stealing a crucial number of voters who call themselves Democrats.

___

EDITOR'S NOTE — Charles Babington covers the presidential campaign for The Associated Press.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080826/...ntion_analysis

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

5. Which is it? The lamest or evil genious, you really can't have it both ways.
If he tricked all of us into this war, how could he be lame? Maybe that says
something about all of us (if that's true).

Nah Cheney is the brains in that outfit.Tricked all of us into war?!Again speak for yourself I'd invite you to go back and read my posts on this subject in March of 2003..I for one was far from tricked even before that debacle began.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Yes, we are winning. At the highest cost. War is Hell.

Maybe we are there to kill terrorist and yes for the OIL!

Even after all we've spent our economy has been strong enough to pull through it.
It it wasn't for the Banks & Mortgage Companies loaning money to people who don't
qualify for loans, and people just over extending themselves, you wouldn't be hearing about how bad the economy is.

You sound an awful lot like Carne. Your screen name is quite ironic.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

You sound an awful lot like Carne. Your screen name is quite ironic.

Yeah I thought the same thing about the screen name ..wasn't it fear that Bush and co. used to to mislead alot of people into the Iraqi war?If it was Carne he' d have to be taking on a whole new persona and playing the devil's advocate which come to think of it he was pretty damned good at!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

Yeah I thought the same thing about the screen name ..wasn't it fear that Bush and co. used to to mislead alot of people into the Iraqi war?If it was Carne he' d have to be taking on a whole new persona and playing the devil's advocate which come to think of it he was pretty damned good at!

Well, iamnotafraid said he was from the Gulf Coast and that he had damage from Katrina. I am unsure if Carne would joke about such a thing.

Backstory - carnevaca is a now banned ledgie. Carne was banned for having multiple (I think 5-10) screen names, which is a violation of the rules. He would use these screen names to have conversations, at times, that were for the purpose of inciting a ficticious argument, also a violation of the rules. Carne would also use his main screen name to promote arguments that at times could have been construed as antagonistic.

I personally like and liked Carne and miss him.

[BTFLCHLD]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Backstory - carnevaca is a now banned ledgie. Carne was banned for having multiple (I think 5-10) screen names, which is a violation of the rules. He would use these screen names to have conversations, at times, that were for the purpose of inciting a ficticious argument, also a violation of the rules. Carne would also use his main screen name to promote arguments that at times could have been construed as antagonistic.

curious. did he carry on conversations with himself?

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, iamnotafraid said he was from the Gulf Coast and that he had damage from Katrina. I am unsure if Carne would joke about such a thing.

Backstory - carnevaca is a now banned ledgie.

On my lunch break and decided to check how much I'd been kicked around.

I'm sorry to all the paranoid people, but I don't even know who "Carne" is. I guess I haven't been here long enough.

I do believe in what I say here (when I'm not joking that is). Most of these political arguments are so one-sided, and that's what makes me throw my 2 cents in.

I will say that as much as Strandinthewind and I disagree on political issues, I enjoy the post I read from Strand. And I appreciate the amount of time and effort it takes to write such post. At least both of us like the McCain......oops.. sorry Strand I meant the Mac.

Most Dem's made their minds up about President Bush before he was even in office.
And as for the post mentioning the Iraqi pullout, the Dem's did want an pullout first.
But they wanted it before we were (and are) winning. That's a big difference.

I'll let ajm do the hard work here, he's a bit more scholarly than I.
I'm just a simple farmer. Plus for the most part, I'm just here for fun.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, iamnotafraid said he was from the Gulf Coast and that he had damage from Katrina. I am unsure if Carne would joke about such a thing.

Backstory - carnevaca is a now banned ledgie. Carne was banned for having multiple (I think 5-10) screen names, which is a violation of the rules. He would use these screen names to have conversations, at times, that were for the purpose of inciting a ficticious argument, also a violation of the rules. Carne would also use his main screen name to promote arguments that at times could have been construed as antagonistic.

I personally like and liked Carne and miss him.

He also had conversations with himself amongst his screen names.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

curious. did he carry on conversations with himself?

Yes. He did.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

On my lunch break and decided to check how much I'd been kicked around.

I'm sorry to all the paranoid people, but I don't even know who "Carne" is. I guess I haven't been here long enough.

I do believe in what I say here (when I'm not joking that is). Most of these political arguments are so one-sided, and that's what makes me throw my 2 cents in.

I will say that as much as Strandinthewind and I disagree on political issues, I enjoy the post I read from Strand. And I appreciate the amount of time and effort it takes to write such post. At least both of us like the McCain......oops.. sorry Strand I meant the Mac.

Most Dem's made their minds up about President Bush before he was even in office.
And as for the post mentioning the Iraqi pullout, the Dem's did want an pullout first.
But they wanted it before we were (and are) winning. That's a big difference.

I'll let ajm do the hard work here, he's a bit more scholarly than I.
I'm just a simple farmer. Plus for the most part, I'm just here for fun.

Nah - I like McCain as a person. I just do not want the R party in power anymore. I think the idea of a religious state is too repugnant. And, the ironic thing is the far religious right is too stupid to realize the R's are just using them. Let the tide change from religious sectarianism, and the R party will follow the money to the other wherever it goes. They all do that. That is why the idea that McCain will somehow buck the R party on these currently vogue religious ideas is ridiculous. McCain will follow the money, which is the RNC.

I also do not get when people say Obama wants to raise their taxes. All the evidence shows that Obama is raising taxes back to the Clinton levels for those making $200,000 or more a year. Thus, the vast majority of Americans will feel nothing from this tax "increase." Moreover, at the Clinton levels, the nation had a trillion + dollar surplus. So, I just do not see how Obama's tax plan is such a bad thing and I HATE the current income tax system. Again, I am for the Fair Tax because that way every hooker, stipper, waiter, drug dealer, and any other cash based business has to in the end pay tax on their cash transactions.

As for winning in Iraq - do you not see that McCain, W, the R party, and its mouthpieces cried for the last two years and as recently a few weeks ago that any talk of withdrawing the combat troops in Iraq was an admission of defeat, the D's just want America to fail, etc. Now, W is doing just that based on the same set of facts and clearly because the American public is done with this ill thought out and planned war; McCain likely cannot win without W's current withdrawal scheme. Yet, when W does it, America suddenly is winning in Iraq and no one better talk against W or how he alone got us into the disasterous situation in Iraq in the first place. All suddenly is forgiven for W, but all of the D's who dared to raise this issue are traitors and hate America. To me, that is BS and rank hypocrisy, which I have to say the facts support is all the R's have been about since 1996.

Again, if W were your employee, would you have fired him long ago?