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  #61  
Old 03-16-2004, 05:30 PM
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Cool Also...

When you have a group of people who all have something important to add and you are trying to come to some sort of compromise, what if you NEVER can come to a decision as a group? SOMEONE needs to step up and say, "THIS is how we are going to do this. End of story." Dont'cha think?

Everyone can have their say, add their ideas, etc., but SOMEONE needs to come to the final decision, right?
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  #62  
Old 03-16-2004, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: I agree.

Quote:
Originally posted by chiliD
Well, it worked GREAT for CCR until John Fogerty relented and made it a democracy right before the Mardi Gras album...they lasted for that one album and the subsequent tour, then broke up.
chili... don't undermine me in front of the kids, you know how that makes me feel!
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  #63  
Old 03-16-2004, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Also...

Quote:
Originally posted by wondergirl9847
When you have a group of people who all have something important to add and you are trying to come to some sort of compromise, what if you NEVER can come to a decision as a group? SOMEONE needs to step up and say, "THIS is how we are going to do this. End of story." Dont'cha think?

Everyone can have their say, add their ideas, etc., but SOMEONE needs to come to the final decision, right?
That's usually where the managers come in.
Of course, that's not a perfect situation either.

At any rate, a band definitely needs to have an idea-man, but I still believe that idea-man better be flexible.

Ask Steve Perry or Axl Rose if being the top-dog worked out for them.
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  #64  
Old 03-16-2004, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Also...

Quote:
Originally posted by wondergirl9847
When you have a group of people who all have something important to add and you are trying to come to some sort of compromise, what if you NEVER can come to a decision as a group? SOMEONE needs to step up and say, "THIS is how we are going to do this. End of story." Dont'cha think?

Everyone can have their say, add their ideas, etc., but SOMEONE needs to come to the final decision, right?
Agreed. I think SN said she essentially does that in that she gives her demos to LB to work on. He works on them and then she makes comments on them. Then the fighting about them begins!!!!!
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  #65  
Old 03-16-2004, 05:38 PM
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Fleetwood Mac is fairly unique since each member of the band has their own manager...the band itself doesn't have one. It's "management by committee". And, we wonder why things don't get done quickly in Fleetwood Mac circles.
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  #66  
Old 03-16-2004, 05:43 PM
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Thumbs up AMEN!!!!!!

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Long live LB!!!!


I am sitting here trying to think of how many FM Lindsey songs (IMO) are the commercial ones vs. the "artistic" ones.

Monday Morning - commercial
Blue Letter - commercial
ISA - artistic

SHN - commercial
NGBA - commercial
GYOW - commercial

The Ledge - artistic
Save Me a Place - artistic
WMYTYTO - artistic
That's All for Everyone - artistic
Not That Funny - artistic
That's Enough For Me - artistic
I Know I'm Not Wrong - artistic
Walk a Thin Line - artistic
Tusk - commercial

Can't Go Back - commercial
Book of Love - artistic
Empire State - artistic
Oh Diane - commercial
EOTW - commercial

Big Love - commercial
Caroline - artistic
Tango in the Night - artistic
Family Man - artistic
You and I, Part I - commercial

WTWCT - commercial
Murrow - artistic
Miranda - commercial
Red Rover - artistic
Peacekeeper - commercial
Come - artistic
SYHA - commercial
BTLH - commercial
Say Goodbye - artistic

commercial - 16
artistic - 18

He's half and half...sorta. LOL
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  #67  
Old 03-16-2004, 05:48 PM
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Christy - that was great!!!!!

The only thing is ISA was kind of typical for that era's guitar crunchers (except that it was more brilliant than most!!!! - I am too old!!!
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  #68  
Old 03-16-2004, 06:00 PM
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Great list, Christy!

I'd say that some of them would definitely straddle the line between "commercial" and "artistic."
"I'm So Afraid," "Family Man," and "Book Of Love" could easily fall into the "commercial" category, too.
While "Big Love" and "Miranda" could also be considered "artistic."
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  #69  
Old 03-16-2004, 06:02 PM
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Default Strand...

I always see that song as way too dark for the 70's. LOL When I think of the "happy decade", I think of disco and light-heartedness...also, would you hear that song on the radio...newp.

You're too old? PUH-LEEZE!! I wish I had been born earlier. I'm a bi-centennial baby. LOL
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  #70  
Old 03-16-2004, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: Strand...

Quote:
Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I always see that song as way too dark for the 70's. LOL When I think of the "happy decade", I think of disco and light-heartedness...also, would you hear that song on the radio...newp.

You're too old? PUH-LEEZE!! I wish I had been born earlier. I'm a bi-centennial baby. LOL
Oh you children Disco came out in the latter half of the 70's.

IMO, ISA fits squarely with the late 60's and early to mid 70's guitar crunching bands like Led Zeppelin, Foghat, Black Sabbath, etc. Although these bands all had their own distinct sounds, they all had these long guitar oriented songs similar to ISA. Interestingly, apparently, Fritz was somewhat like this because Stevie said it was a heavy band, etc.
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  #71  
Old 03-16-2004, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Trust me, I'd be the last person to ever take credit away from Lindsey when he deserves it.
And I completely agree that his influence pushes Fleetwood Mac to some very lofty heights.

But I also don't see anything un-commercial about the bulk of his music.

For every "Bwana" or "The Ledge," there's a "Trouble," "Slow Dancing," or "Soul Drifter."
I'm not criticizing you directly on this, because everybody and their dog does it (including Lindsey himself to some degree) but I must say....

WHY must people act like making the terrific songs you've classified as "commercial" somehow takes away from his artistic integrity?!!! I see Christy's list and I cringe as I see many of my favorites labelled with the dreaded "commercial" - ie, sell-outs and not truly from Lindsey's heart. Again, I'm not saying Christy feels this way, or you JS, but that's the implication that comes up AGAIN and AGAIN. Here you are using it to imply Lindsey is disingenuous about not wanting to "sell out." That is sure a harsh criticism, in my humble opinion, and I hate the fact it is based on songs that have really touched me (in this case, namely, Soul Drifter).

I contend that, with VERY few exceptions, EVERY song Lindsey has released has NOT been done to appeal to commercial success, but because it comes from his own aesthetic impulses. I realize that Lindsey's disparaging remarks about songs like SYHA take away somewhat from my argument, but I also believe that he was forced into that kind of stance from other people's stereotypical views of what is "artistic." I really do believe that Lindsey cares A LOT about whether or not people perceive him as a "true artist" and he hopes that his self-disparagement would raise him in the esteem of people whose respect he seeks (those Clash-types). (My thoughts on Lindsey's misguided need for the approval of these types is a whole 'nother issue!)


Quote:

Sure, Stevie wrote "Say You Will" in the hopes that it would have broad commercial appeal, and I still really don't see anything wrong with that. If you want to sell those albums, then you have to include some songs that will help you achieve those ends. [...]

Again, it's all well and good to want things on your own terms. There's nothing at all wrong with standing up for what you believe in. But, as the saying goes, sometimes the ends justifies the means... and if you want to sell albums, and Lindsey does, then you better be willing to play ball.

You make some compromises... you give the record company a few of the kinds of songs they want, and then you can fill the rest of the album with the songs you want
you know what? I give Stevie the same credit I give Lindsey. I don't think she wrote SYW thinking "I'm going to write something commercial." I DO think that, once she wrote it, she thought, "I hope people will like this" (in other words, it be :: gasp :: commercially successful).

I think BOTH Lindsey and Stevie write from the heart, and I think BOTH want people to enjoy their music. There is nothing wrong with either of those despite the perjorative labelling of the latter as "selling out" or compromising oneself by SO MANY people - even some of his staunchest defenders, who seem embarrassed to admit to liking anything on Rumours better than anything on Tusk. LINDSEY FANS, DON'T BUY INTO THIS MENTALITY! ALL of Lindsey's work is worthy of our respect.

OK, except for Family Man.
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Last edited by sodascouts; 03-16-2004 at 08:17 PM..
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  #72  
Old 03-16-2004, 08:17 PM
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Default I don't get the argument...

I dont' understand why commercial songs are looked at as crap either. Didn't The Beatles have some commercial songs? Well, OF COURSE they did. "She Loves You" anyone?

I did that list out of curiosity of which songs of his are very radio-friendly as opposed to songs you'd NEVER hear on the radio. My whole belief is that just because it's on the radio, doesn't mean it's the artist's best songs. That kind of crap is engrained in our brains from the moment we are old enough to appreciate music.

I love pop music, commercial and non-commercial. I do understand that the music industry today kinda sucks weed, but there are some songs on the radio I like a lot.

Also, I'm more openminded than I used to be regarding music.
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  #73  
Old 03-16-2004, 08:24 PM
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For the record and as have said, I am all for commercial records because it means future recordings, etc. Also, I think LB, SN, and CM are in that rare breed of artist/poet ( Christy ) that write music that appeals to the masses. Thus, the term commercial. I do not for minute think it takes away from the merit of the music. But, LB seemingly does in that HE uses the term commercial in a seemingly negative way. Maybe when he says commercial he is suggesting Brittany Spears, etc. But, I do not think that is what we are talking about here in this thread, at least I am not
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  #74  
Old 03-16-2004, 11:30 PM
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Nancy... Christy... trust me when I say that my comments about Lindsey and Fleetwood Mac making commercial music, are in no way meant to be disparaging. I know sometimes when I'm trying to make a point, my personal feelings about the music get lost in the translation, but I'm not someone who turns my nose up at a song just because it happens to be catchy or radio-friendly.

My comments are only made because I think the "Lindsey equals artistic integrity/Stevie equals commercialism" line of thinking, is way off base.

Whether some folks like it or not, our favorite band... and the members therein... make commercially appealing music.

But I whole-heartedly agree that, even when they've crafted a song to make it most appealing, they're still doing it out of love for their art.
So yeah, Stevie hoped "Say You Will" had commercial legs... and wrote it with the intention of paying homage to the kinds of hit songs Christine has contributed over the years.
But I don't see it as selling out, or lacking in artistic integrity just because she hoped it would get radio play and be successful.

My argument was this: it's not a big deal that Stevie wants to sell some albums... so does Lindsey, whether he admits it or not.
Personally, I don't see a problem with wanting that.
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Last edited by Johnny Stew; 03-16-2004 at 11:32 PM..
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  #75  
Old 03-17-2004, 02:35 AM
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Wink The Managers Rule...Then...???

YOUR comments are most interesting!
Tell Stevie, some of us are older then 27yrs.
and stood in a line just to buy SYW for $13.99
+Tax!!! Another $24.99 + tax was also spent
by my family to buy their Mom the Red SYW...
DOUBLE ALBUM with... Extra Songs... by her
favorite Band and Mother's... most Favorite
Guitarist ever...Lindsey BucKINGham!!!
Why DID FMac Make a RED Double Album???

We sympathize with Lindsey for being lead by
Mick to go in studio to record their Double Album,
then Mick doing a 180*...and pouting about it!!!
(Remember J.Todd and the infamous Fan Club?)
What went wrong? SYW has only sold 810,827!
They'll be THRILLED with all that Tour Money!
The Doc.had Fun moments but not many! Sky

ps Johnny Stew...Ditto what you said...we get Lost!
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