The most disturbing thing I've read in ages

trackaghost · #1 02-01-2007, 06:51 PM

This is a first person account of a woman with body identity integrity disorder (BIID), which I had never heard of before. It's a disorder where the sufferers feel the need to remove healthy limbs.
It's fascinating and well written but I warn you it is quite disturbing. I feel really freaked out having read it.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/health...000991,00.html

Has anyone else heard of this disorder and what do you think?

carrie721 · #2 02-01-2007, 06:54 PM

sharon, you can ignore this

:

wow. i have heard of that before, but i really don't know much about the disorder, aside from anecdotal info like this. my initial reaction is to be shocked and horrified, but the author brings up a good point in that not too long ago, homosexuality and transsexuality were completely vilified too. stories like this just make me so sad above all else, that someone could be so unhappy with some aspect of her body that she'd rather endure immense self-inflicted pain than continue living as before. very sad. makes me think that maybe we need counseling services for people like this, much like counseling services for pre-op transsexuals, so they can be properly evaluated, and so they look at more humane options than, y'know, freeze drying their own limbs.

trackaghost · #3 02-01-2007, 07:08 PM

I understand why people are transsexuals, in that their self-image doesn't fit with the body they actually have.
I guess in a way this is an even more extreme version of that, but it's hard to empathise, especially when she sounds so happy that she now has to use crutches and wheelchairs for the rest of her life.
I find it horrific to read, it just sounds like something out of a horror film.

carrie721 · #4 02-01-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I guess in a way this is an even more extreme version of that, but it's hard to empathise, especially when she sounds so happy that she now has to use crutches and wheelchairs for the rest of her life.
I find it horrific to read, it just sounds like something out of a horror film.

i think what makes it so difficult to grasp (well, for me anyway) is that people without BIID view the loss of a limb as a disability or a handicap, and people with BIID view it as an enhancement, they feel enabled & empowered. to be honest, i cannot relate to that feeling at all. but that doesn't mean i think it's not valid ... the fact that some people are willing to endure intense pain to lose a limb tells me that it's a very serious condition, up there with gender identity issues. frankly, i would like to study this.

trackaghost · #5 02-01-2007, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carrie721

i think what makes it so difficult to grasp (well, for me anyway) is that people without BIID view the loss of a limb as a disability or a handicap, and people with BIID view it as an enhancement, they feel enabled & empowered.

That's exactly it. I know the idea of losing a limb is a devastating thought to me, so it's hard to comprehend the idea of someone seeing actually having limbs as a handicap.
I was intrigued to see what triggers something like this, since apparently it starts in childhood and found a site for it:

http://www.biid.org/

From that site:

Where does the desire come from?
No one is sure exactly where the desire originates. For most (dealing with this syndrome), the desire arises early in childhood and they will have a fixed concept of the type of amputation they wish by the teenage years.

So bizarre. It must be linked with a childhood experience don't you think?

michelle2677 · #6 02-01-2007, 07:31 PM

this is awful. I feel bad for these people, but it sounds like this lady is happy. Shame about her sister but bravo to her husband for sticking by her side

i found it interesting when she froze it the first time she said after it was done she called him. I wonder why he wasnt with her. Maybe she didnt tell him "when" for fear he might try to talk her out of it

carrie721 · #7 02-01-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackaghost

That's exactly it. I know the idea of losing a limb is a devastating thought to me, so it's hard to comprehend the idea of someone seeing actually having limbs as a handicap.
I was intrigued to see what triggers something like this, since apparently it starts in childhood and found a site for it:

http://www.biid.org/

From that site:

Where does the desire come from?
No one is sure exactly where the desire originates. For most (dealing with this syndrome), the desire arises early in childhood and they will have a fixed concept of the type of amputation they wish by the teenage years.

So bizarre. It must be linked with a childhood experience don't you think?

i was just looking at that site.

i think in some cases it could be linked with a childhood experience, but i think the brain is far too complex a piece of machinery to make a definite statement about causation, unfortunately. some people say they start having feelings about amputation as young as 4 or 5 - to me, that says that it could be something hard-wired.

JazmenFlowers · #8 02-01-2007, 07:34 PM

I heard about this a while ago on 20/20 or something and then there was a character on Nip/Tuck that had this. it is really sad and confusing. I mean, I just can't wrap my mind around it...

I don't think I'd equate it to gender dysphoria, but I guess they share similar traits.

carrie721 · #9 02-01-2007, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelle2677

I wonder why he wasnt with her. Maybe she didnt tell him "when" for fear he might try to talk her out of it

or maybe she knew how disturbing it would be to be there with her. or perhaps there would be legal ramifications of being present while another person mutilates themselves? i wonder how her children would deal.

carrie721 · #10 02-01-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

I don't think I'd equate it to gender dysphoria, but I guess they share similar traits.

i wouldn't equate them, but there are parallels, as you said. at the crux of both conditions is the fact that the sufferer feels trapped in an incomplete body, one that doesn't suit his/her needs. it's sad.

trackaghost · #11 02-01-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carrie721

i was just looking at that site.

i think in some cases it could be linked with a childhood experience, but i think the brain is far too complex a piece of machinery to make a definite statement about causation, unfortunately. some people say they start having feelings about amputation as young as 4 or 5 - to me, that says that it could be something hard-wired.

There's more on that site about the cause:

What is the cause?
The cause has not been clearly delineated however several theories have been proposed:

The sight of an amputee in infancy imprints the child's psyche and the child feels that that should be their body image.
The child feels unloved and by becoming an amputee may attract sympathy and love. There are strong positive thoughts about becoming an amputee.
The desire is an external manifestation of an unresolved internal conflict.
The condition is a neuro-psychological condition in which there is a structural or functional anomaly of the cerebral cortex (higher part of the brain) related to the limb(s).

Clearly studies of large numbers of patients will be required to make any progress in this field.

carrie721 · #12 02-01-2007, 07:54 PM

thanks sharon.

The sight of an amputee in infancy imprints the child's psyche and the child feels that that should be their body image. - this i don't buy. maybe as one of several factors, but certainly not on its own.

The child feels unloved and by becoming an amputee may attract sympathy and love. There are strong positive thoughts about becoming an amputee. - hmm. interesting.

The desire is an external manifestation of an unresolved internal conflict. - well duh!

The condition is a neuro-psychological condition in which there is a structural or functional anomaly of the cerebral cortex (higher part of the brain) related to the limb(s). - i think this really needs to be pursued. if a neurological cause can be found, these people can be saved a lot of psychological and physical pain.

Karlie · #13 02-01-2007, 09:12 PM

I've read a lot about it. I find things like that so incredibly fascinating. I want to get inside their minds.

JazmenFlowers · #14 02-01-2007, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carrie721

i wouldn't equate them, but there are parallels, as you said. at the crux of both conditions is the fact that the sufferer feels trapped in an incomplete body, one that doesn't suit his/her needs. it's sad.

exactly.

it is terribly sad.

ELIUD · #15 02-02-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

I don't think I'd equate it to gender dysphoria, but I guess they share similar traits.

I don't either. I think its much closer to anorexia, bulliemia and whatever that condition is called when people are so addicted to plastic surgery they make themselves look like cats or whatever.