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  #46  
Old 03-25-2019, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
It sounds like a lot of your opinions about Lindsey's music might actually spring from your own personal issues. That's understandable, when you are going through a hard time. It also explains a few things.
To be fair, I had been a fan for nearly twenty years and had seen him five previous times (Mac and solo) by that point. I never liked his banter, but it really hit a nerve at that show as did wondering if it was live or if it was Memorex.

I’d take a sloppy drunk lead guitar solo and an off key vocalist over piped in music and modulated vocals every time.
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BTW, why would you want - and apparently expect - Lindsey to say nasty things about Glenn Frey, of all people?
Glen was still alive, and it was more about The Eagles-Fleetwood Mac rivalry. Dogging on other artists is something Bob Pollard does (he actually has a couple of live albums of just his banter called “Relaxation of the A**hole” that are hilarious), which is way more rock than going over a therapy session with an audience.
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  #47  
Old 03-25-2019, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
It sounds like a lot of your opinions about Lindsey's music might actually spring from your own personal issues. That's understandable, when you are going through a hard time. It also explains a few things.
to be fair, Steve did go to see Lindsey in November. although not sure why he's going to see artists who annoy him so much.

also, why ever go see any millionaire nostalgia acts that keep shoveling away their money and make a point not to express opinions on anyone or anything, if that's what you care about?
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  #48  
Old 03-25-2019, 06:29 PM
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to be fair, Steve did go to see Lindsey in November. although not sure why he's going to see artists who annoy him so much.
His music is part of the soundtrack of my life. Since I was thirteen. I literally went from comic books to Fleetwood Mac. I don’t dislike Lindsey, but Fleetwood Mac doesn’t begin or end with him, either.

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also, why ever go see any millionaire nostalgia acts that keep shoveling away their money and make a point not to express opinions on anyone or anything, if that's what you care about?
Huh? I love the music. From Mayall to today. But, Lindsey needs to keep it just to the music. I think he thinks he sounds profound, but to me he sounds like an entitled idiot.
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  #49  
Old 03-25-2019, 06:40 PM
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His music is part of the soundtrack of my life. Since I was thirteen. I literally went from comic books to Fleetwood Mac. I don’t dislike Lindsey, but Fleetwood Mac doesn’t begin or end with him, either.


Huh? I love the music. From Mayall to today. But, Lindsey needs to keep it just to the music. I think he thinks he sounds profound, but to me he sounds like an entitled idiot.
so you want him to keep it to just music, or you want him to dish on Fray and whoever?

he is an entitled idiot. but compared to Mick and Stevie? he's a freakin saint. those people have no clue what reality is and think they are entitled not to ever have to.
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  #50  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:20 PM
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I've given up trying to explain my feeling to friends, family and coworkers. My sig other is about the only person on earth besides people here that even remotely understand. Layers and layers of emotion. There's no succinct way to explain it. How can people relate when they haven't followed the band and the solo projects for decades. I fear everything that's gone on with the firing, lying, LB health issue etc, etc has permanently altered my relationship with the music. This is the first time in my life I've wished I could be one of those casual fans who hear a song, sing along and breeze on to the next song.

I read here regularly. There are so many times I want to comment but I don't have the energy.....it's like my brain is working but I can't will my body to do the work. I don't know. Maybe I'll feel differently in a few years but I doubt it. Someone will die or release a new album or tour or whatever and it will start up again for me. Sounds like crazy talk at their age (albums/tours) but anything can happen as we've seen.

What the hell do I do with all the stuff I've accumulated over the years?? I can't even contemplate it so I do nothing. I always took pride in MY band being one of the very few classic bands that still has its original lineup (original as in Rumours 5 is what most people think of as original)--that's blown to bits now.

I can't even discuss Stevie--she was always my favorite member but.........The worst part is I'm not a sycophant. No matter how much I love someones music I can still be objective about the people playing the music. I know they're flawed people as we all are. I've always accepted the drama as part of FM. I've never propped any of them up as perfect people cause they're not and I never expected them to be.
From the very beginning I never wanted to be team Stevie or team Lindsey. I want to be team FM.

Just sharing my feelings here. I'm sure some can relate while others may disagree--that's okay. Each fan has such an individual relationship to the band and the music. That's another thing that upsets me. The uniqueness of that has been damaged.
Sorry for the gloom and thanks for letting me post my inner Eeyore.
I feel you. Deeply.

I’ll share this. I’m not comfortable with it yet, but I know I’m supposed to talk about it more. It’s taken me 25 years to say this, blocked out of my memory...

I was abused as a child. That was really difficult to write. I couldn’t even begin to tell you what it was like growing up as a teenager as a result.

The one and only thing that I could count on every day was the comfort of this band. Specifically, the pain and beauty that Lindsey was able to communicate through his music. They all helped me get through that period of my life and I’ve never felt the same about anything else in my life. I loved this band. I might not be here if I didn’t have them back then.

This situation over the past year has been a cause of my walls coming down... I stopped being able to cope. I didn’t even know that it was there.

In some ways, I’m grateful for the situation as it’s allowed for me to get help. However, I can’t help feel like something in the universe is irreverably broken and forever changed. I miss them. They won’t get any more of my money. But they still will get some of my love for what they meant to me.

Lindsey - on the other hand - will be a man that I will support until my last breath. Some days, I wish that I could tell him how much he means to me...
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  #51  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:52 PM
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so you want him to keep it to just music, or you want him to dish on Fray and whoever?
I’d rather he stick to the music, but if he has to talk, either make it quick or make it funny, but for the love of God, enough of the psychobabble. Nobody cares about your arrested development FFS.

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he is an entitled idiot. but compared to Mick and Stevie? he's a freakin saint. those people have no clue what reality is and think they are entitled not to ever have to.
That’s especially why I love the McVies.
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  #52  
Old 03-25-2019, 11:04 PM
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It sounds like Cast Away Dreams intro. I always understood that as finally giving up on being a commercial solo artist - something he pursued at the OOTC time and why he was sitting on OOTC for so long making it come out at exactly the wrong time to be commercial. If you watch his documentary that comes with Bass Hall it is pretty clear he was stuck on whether or not to still try something commercial solo, or just release stuff without worrying too much.

If you think this was about some kind of shipperdom thing, that’s your own problem.

IMO, although many say that the recent happenings are about Stevie still being stuck on LB romantically while he moved on long time ago and she finally realized that, I always maintain that while those 2 have weird symbiotic relationship it’s not nearly as much about the couple thing as people romanticize and as they’d like you to think, but about competition about their careers. They both know neither one would be as successful as they are without the other and they probably both hate it. Just look at the ridiculous fan discussions of its all one or its all the other ongoing all over social media.

Like I think last night I saw someone posted here “it wouldn’t be FM without Stevie” - well, guess what, I bet that person goes ballistic when someone says “ it’s not FM without Lindsey”.

YES.
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  #53  
Old 03-26-2019, 03:09 PM
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I'm sorry you suffered through that. I didn't expect to read anything like that in response to my post. At first I thought about not responding cause I don't know what to say but that didn't feel right. All I can say is I'm so sorry bad things happened to you. Sincerely. Hugs to you.

As for LB--- I'll cont to support him whole heartedly!
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  #54  
Old 03-27-2019, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Things are about Stevie, for instance some of us long said that the UTS intro was about her and it turns out it was. But you have to look for these connections. Sometimes it seems that non-shippers, who say they are disgusted by SNL, go as far out of their way to look for romance that’s not there than shippers do.
The thing that always drove me temperamentally away from my friend Nancy's board of relationship-centered interpretations wasn't the fiction of the relationship itself but the insistence on anywhere and everywhere reading autobiography into every lyric. It always made me think back to my college lit courses in authorial intent and Wimsatt and Beardsley's intentional fallacy, and how it's overshooting to continually assume that a songwriter's lyrics are either deeply personal or even autobiographically factual at all. There's no internal (internal to the song) evidence that "Did she make you break down?" is a second-person address to Lindsey Buckingham in the real world. Stevie might have said that it was—I don't know—but it doesn't necessarily follow that, just because we know real-world Stevie sent real-world Lindsey packing and he took it hard, the lyric itself relates that real-world reaction in any way. But the shippers and others project and project. By virtue of sheer amount, some projecting is probably actually factual. But it's the constant projecting that alienates me. Does every little phrase in a Stevie Nicks lyric that touches on passionate emotional ambivalence have to do with Lindsey? Shipper reactions are fictions about fictions. Of course, Stevie's mode of writing lends itself to such responses, and that's also why I don't think Stevie is one of the great writers: she never seems to stand back from her characters and observe them with any detachment or irony. The emotions they are experiencing are always and completely the emotions that we listeners are supposed to be connecting to with total ingenuousness. It's all very unsophisticated.
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  #55  
Old 03-27-2019, 03:37 PM
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Of course, Stevie's mode of writing lends itself to such responses, and that's also why I don't think Stevie is one of the great writers: she never seems to stand back from her characters and observe them with any detachment or irony. The emotions they are experiencing are always and completely the emotions that we listeners are supposed to be connecting to with total ingenuousness. It's all very unsophisticated.
What I love about SYLM is that he doesn't love her and Christine manages to convey that on one hand, tucking reality neatly beneath frothy romance. The song conveys two contradictory messages in my mind: what she would like to be the truth and what is the truth. I've always thought that was very clever.

Stevie ... thinking about what you wrote, I've thought that EFO does have a certain detachment. I see the protagonist as fooling herself. She exudes false bravado. She taunts. He adores her. They do it everywhere they can, every time they can get away. Get away! (much like Paul's alleged "get back" to Yoko). But none of it's true and she's really dying inside. The lyrics always gave me the impression of an outside narrator looking in, detached, shrewd, sad, witnessing someone else's delusion. But we listeners, what are we supposed to feel? Are we cheering the affair? I think yes, in a way. The pounding disco music says triumph. We dance as "the other woman" chortles. We support her. I don't know if we are necessarily supposed to be connecting to the despair.

Anne Lindbergh once described Charles feeding their daughter. He would dangle a cherry in her face and when she would look up at it, mouth ajar, he'd stick a vegetable in her mouth. I think that's what EFO does.

I mean, I don't think it's the sophisticated song you requested, but I think it conveys more than what's on the shallow surface, because it strikes me as both celebration and doom.
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  #56  
Old 03-27-2019, 04:10 PM
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The one and only thing that I could count on every day was the comfort of this band. Specifically, the pain and beauty that Lindsey was able to communicate through his music. They all helped me get through that period of my life and I’ve never felt the same about anything else in my life. I loved this band. I might not be here if I didn’t have them back then.

This situation over the past year has been a cause of my walls coming down... I stopped being able to cope. I didn’t even know that it was there.
Thanks for sharing, fleetwoodguy79. The power of music should never be underestimated. You will get through this.

If it's not too personal, I would love to know some of the songs that helped you during that difficult time.
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:59 PM
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What I love about SYLM is that he doesn't love her and Christine manages to convey that on one hand, tucking reality neatly beneath frothy romance. The song conveys two contradictory messages in my mind: what she would like to be the truth and what is the truth. I've always thought that was very clever.

Stevie ... thinking about what you wrote, I've thought that EFO does have a certain detachment. I see the protagonist as fooling herself. She exudes false bravado. She taunts. He adores her. They do it everywhere they can, every time they can get away. Get away!(much like Paul's alleged "get back" to Yoko). But none of it's true and she's really dying inside. The lyrics always gave me the impression of an outside narrator looking in, detached, shrewd, sad, witnessing someone else's delusion. But we listeners, what are we supposed to feel? Are we cheering the affair? I think yes, in a way. The pounding disco music says triumph. We dance as "the other woman" chortles. We support her. I don't know if we are necessarily supposed to be connecting to the despair.

Anne Lindbergh once described Charles feeding their daughter. He would dangle a cherry in her face and when she would look up at it, mouth ajar, he'd stick a vegetable in her mouth. I think that's what EFO does.

I mean, I don't think it's the sophisticated song you requested, but I think it conveys more than what's on the shallow surface, because it strikes me as both celebration and doom.
I honestly think the second "get away" is just an aural flourish, i.e. there needs to be an additional couple of syllables at the end of the line which isn't enough to express a new thought so she repeats the "get away", like an echo. I think reading it as otherwise is over thinking it.
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Old 03-27-2019, 08:28 PM
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I honestly think the second "get away" is just an aural flourish, i.e. there needs to be an additional couple of syllables at the end of the line which isn't enough to express a new thought so she repeats the "get away", like an echo. I think reading it as otherwise is over thinking it.
I take it as meaning both things. Every time we can get away and telling the wife to step off. I don't mind overthinking.
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  #59  
Old 03-27-2019, 09:09 PM
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I know in the big scope of things, my opinion really doesn't matter. I just cannot accept the current lineup. The firing of previous members of the band like Danny, Dave Walker and Bob Weston made sense given the circumstances. The other members left on their own accord including Peter, Jeremy and Bob Welch. The same holds true for Lindsey, Christine, Stevie, Rick and the short period that Billy left the band.

The circumstances surrounding Lindsey's firing doesn't sit well with me. Of all the Rumours group, he was the only one who wanted to make a new album and tour for the past several years. It would be fine if he wanted to walk away on his own terms but that obviously didn't happen. The fact that he was ousted by one member of the band wasn't right. With the recent news where the truth of his firing came out shows what cowards they all are. This was a chance for the band to properly bookend everything and end on a beautiful note. Instead we have this. It has stained and tarnished Fleetwood Mac's legacy.

Lindsey deserved better. Fans deserved better. It is so disheartening and so sad that this will be how the band ends. Sorry Peter, Bob B., Jeremy, Danny, Bob Weston, Dave W., Bob Welch, Billy, Rick, Bekka and Dave M. You all made beautiful music and will be remembered positively for your contributions to the band and for not trying to oust anyone for your own selfish reasons.
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:23 PM
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I know in the big scope of things, my opinion really doesn't matter. I just cannot accept the current lineup. The firing of previous members of the band like Danny, Dave Walker and Bob Weston made sense given the circumstances. The other members left on their own accord including Peter, Jeremy and Bob Welch. The same holds true for Lindsey, Christine, Stevie, Rick and the short period that Billy left the band.

The circumstances surrounding Lindsey's firing doesn't sit well with me. Of all the Rumours group, he was the only one who wanted to make a new album and tour for the past several years. It would be fine if he wanted to walk away on his own terms but that obviously didn't happen. The fact that he was ousted by one member of the band wasn't right. With the recent news where the truth of his firing came out shows what cowards they all are. This was a chance for the band to properly bookend everything and end on a beautiful note. Instead we have this. It has stained and tarnished Fleetwood Mac's legacy.

Lindsey deserved better. Fans deserved better. It is so disheartening and so sad that this will be how the band ends. Sorry Peter, Bob B., Jeremy, Danny, Bob Weston, Dave W., Bob Welch, Billy, Rick, Bekka and Dave M. You all made beautiful music and will be remembered positively for your contributions to the band and for not trying to oust anyone for your own selfish reasons.
Beautifully said. Every word of it. Too bad some people here get bored easily and quit reading. That’s why they start with phrases like: “he left the band”, “he must have done something”, “he was pushing Stevie for a new album”, and other crap they can come up with.

We deserved better. At least some of us. And they didn’t care.
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Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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