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  #31  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:18 PM
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I do think that a lot of record execs and the like are men, though, and that inevitably tilts things in a given direction.
there's a job for Stevie then if she wants to fight for women's rights - take over some of those industry positions from men and make it better. she's powerful, has experience in business, money, connections, visibility, why not if that's what she cares about?

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Being like one of the guys helps women be taken more seriously.
do you really think that? i haven't really encountered that but maybe i'm just oblivious or don't care for such propositions.
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  #32  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:29 PM
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do you really think that? i haven't really encountered that but maybe i'm just oblivious or don't care for such propositions.
You really have never experienced this, as a woman? It's sadly but definitely true.
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  #33  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:30 PM
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i'm not really sure why is everybody trying to argue there's still inequality today. that is not in the question, we all agree on this (and i'm glad we do!).
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  #34  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:38 PM
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and again:

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we all probably saw that recent study that majority of people even now (and even women), when they are given exact same resume to consider for a job position, but one with man's name and other with woman's on the top of it, somehow conclude that man is more qualified.
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  #35  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:38 PM
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do you really think that? i haven't really encountered that but maybe i'm just oblivious or don't care for such propositions.
Different situations screw women over in different ways.

I was a STEM person until very recently deciding to change my career. I took tons of science and math classes and the older I got the fewer women there were with me in those classes. I took chess classes as a kid and I was one of very few girls there. I dropped out of computer classes because I got tired of feeling like there was some game being played with how femininely or masculinely I chose to present myself. In those situations, something like wearing pink or liking a Disney princess, or when I got older, daring to wear a miniskirt could make me be seen as less serious, for sure. My mother told me she was often told how she could and could not wear her hair at work because it was naturally curly and thus too sexy for her to be viewed as professional.

You could just as easily find a woman who had difficulties because she was not feminine enough. She might get made fun of as undateable, she might get told she can't be a ballerina, she might get ostracized for her looks by idiot youtube commenters. None of it is right and none of it is fair, but all of it exists, unfortunately.

Stevie was sexy enough to be wanted for her marketability. She was also sexy enough to get dismissed as an insignificant contributor. It's a double bind, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. In rock and roll, being a sexy woman could get you success as, what, a groupie? Just because you're beautiful and sell records doesn't mean men will like it any more when you tell them "THIS is when I want to wear that dress, not THEN" or "I will record THIS song, not THAT one" or, you know, "You wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan."
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  #36  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:41 PM
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probably best to ignore elle's posts. clearly only here to stir the pot.
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  #37  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:50 PM
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Different situations screw women over in different ways.
true about different situations.

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Stevie was sexy enough to be wanted for her marketability. She was also sexy enough to get dismissed as an insignificant contributor. It's a double bind, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
i don't think anybody could dismiss someone like Chrissie Hynde as insignificant contributor. and i don't think Christine McVie was considered significant contributor because she was not sexy enough to be dismissed.
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  #38  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:53 PM
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probably best to ignore elle's posts. clearly only here to stir the pot.
that is very disrespectful and dismissive (hey, are you dismissing me and my points because i'm a woman? lol).

we are having a discussion about women's issues some of us care about. if you don't, feel free to stay out of it.
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  #39  
Old 03-16-2013, 01:40 AM
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i don't think anybody could dismiss someone like Chrissie Hynde as insignificant contributor. and i don't think Christine McVie was considered significant contributor because she was not sexy enough to be dismissed.
Chrissie Hynde was the leader of her band, the dynamics are not straightforwardly comparable to Fleetwood Mac; nor can I recall her image being as feminine as Stevie's. But in any case just because some women are luckier doesn't mean it doesn't happen. As for your latter statement you know very well that's a total non-starter. "Because Stevie Nicks was sexy, she was not always seen as a significant contributor" cannot by any logic convert to "Anyone who is seen as a significant contributor is seen as such because they are not sexy", much less "Anyone who is a significant contributor is such because they are not sexy." That's logical gymnastics. Christine McVie was seen as a significant contributor because that's exactly what she was. If she was not similarly dismissed as Stevie, we can point to Stevie's bouncier personality, her ultra feminine couture, her "confessional" lyrics, her dependency on others to provide instrumentation, as things that are all coded as more "feminine" experiences by society. I'm not going to sit and debate about what's sexy or not to me as a person, I think I've been on the level and it's transparent that what I'm talking about is what sells as sexy in the MTV era.

Last edited by redbird : 03-16-2013 at 02:11 AM.
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  #40  
Old 03-16-2013, 02:52 AM
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i'm not really sure why is everybody trying to argue there's still inequality today. that is not in the question, we all agree on this (and i'm glad we do!).
again.... Janet Jackson!! you run that board nobody comments on LOL.... why on EARTH are you on Stevie's page????? you don't even like her???? but not really.....so i guess. "that''s the way love goes"
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  #41  
Old 03-16-2013, 06:40 AM
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again.... Janet Jackson!! you run that board nobody comments on LOL.... why on EARTH are you on Stevie's page????? you don't even like her???? but not really.....so i guess. "that''s the way love goes"
Yes, yes, and YES!
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  #42  
Old 03-16-2013, 06:47 AM
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Put on your shawl and LEAN IN!
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  #43  
Old 03-16-2013, 07:25 AM
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lol. i was waiting for all these reactions from the guys.

wonder how Christine McVie feels if she ever reads any of these statements from Ms Nicks.
Elle, haven't you heard the phrase, "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all"?Better still, just stay on the Lindsey section then we won't have to read all of your negativity day after day!
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  #44  
Old 03-16-2013, 08:50 AM
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"Float in like goddesses." I love this statement, and it couldn't be more accurate. Stevie may not have been the first female rocker, but she was definitely one of the first for MY generation to really make a statement about women in rock. I looked up to her, Ann and Nancy Wilson, Pat Benetar, Cyndi Lauper, etc. I was a child of the 80's and these women were goddesses. And Stevie, to me, was the most unique of all, in fact, I think she's pretty unique for any era. And that voice. There's nothing in the world like it.
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  #45  
Old 03-16-2013, 03:25 PM
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i'm not really sure why is everybody trying to argue there's still inequality today. that is not in the question, we all agree on this (and i'm glad we do!).
I don't agree whatsoever with those who are making this personal and attacking you individually, but I've read this thread again and I'm still not sure exactly what is "in question."
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