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  #16  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
people calling themselves trailblazers on a particular issue if they are not belittle others who are.
Nowhere in those quotes, did Stevie refer to herself as a trailblazer. And what she did say, has been corroborated by other female artists of her era. They were not treated equally by the men running the business (Kim Carnes was even told once by a label president, that the record company "already had their female artist"), and often times they weren't even afforded equal treatment by their male peers.

So, yes, those ladies had to work to be respected. And as Ann & Nancy Wilson have said, they often had to work twice as hard as the men on stage to get that respect.

As far the "float like goddesses" comment -- that's Stevie speak for "hold our heads up high and exude confidence."
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  #17  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:16 PM
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What in this article gave rise to your comments?
first time i''ve heard of SN she was giving this statement how she was the first woman rocker in men's world, blazing the trail for all other women that came after her. (i'm paraphrasing, but that was the jest of it)

i though wow, i completely get and love what she's saying, i should look up this woman i've never heard of but who was apparently the first. so i did. and i looked up the years she was talking about. and felt she's belittling all these other women musicians and rock stars who came before her and at the same time as her. including Janis.

i guess everybody here knows and accepts that she rambles on and doesn't really think what she's saying every time, and that maybe she doesn't really mean it the way it comes out... but not everybody knows and understands that if they don't know much about her.

as for the pop music world now, maybe i'm wrong, but people like Gaga or Adele seem like pretty powerful and strong women, no?
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  #18  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
first time i''ve heard of SN she was giving this statement how she was the first woman rocker in men's world, blazing the trail for all other women that came after her. (i'm paraphrasing, but that was the jest of it)

i though wow, i completely get and love what she's saying, i should look up this woman i've never heard of but who was apparently the first. so i did. and i looked up the years she was talking about. and felt she's belittling all these other women musicians and rock stars who came before her and at the same time as her. including Janis.

i guess everybody here knows and accepts that she rambles on and doesn't really think what she's saying every time, and that maybe she doesn't really mean it the way it comes out... but not everybody knows and understands that if they don't know much about her.

as for the pop music world now, maybe i'm wrong, but people like Gaga or Adele seem like pretty powerful and strong women, no?
as a fan of BOTH Adele, and Gaga, they are NOT in Stevie's league. they rely HEAViLY on "co"-writers and TEAMS of producers.
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  #19  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Stew View Post
what she did say, has been corroborated by other female artists of her era. They were not treated equally by the men running the business (Kim Carnes was even told once by a label president, that the record company "already had their female artist"), and often times they weren't even afforded equal treatment by their male peers.

So, yes, those ladies had to work to be respected. And as Ann & Nancy Wilson have said, they often had to work twice as hard as the men on stage to get that respect.
i'm not arguing any of these points. we all probably saw that recent study that majority of people even now (and even women), when they are given exact same resume to consider for a job position, but one with man's name and other with woman's on the top of it, somehow conclude that man is more qualified.
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  #20  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
i guess everybody here knows and accepts that she rambles on and doesn't really think what she's saying every time, and that maybe she doesn't really mean it the way it comes out... but not everybody knows and understands that if they don't know much about her.

as for the pop music world now, maybe i'm wrong, but people like Gaga or Adele seem like pretty powerful and strong women, no?
I've read hundreds of articles on Stevie over the past 28 years, and I don't recall her ever once implying that she was the first female rocker in a man's world. She's always included Chris, Ann, Nancy, Linda, et al, when talking about this subject.

In regards to Janis (and Stevie certainly gives her a lot of credit too), I think the reason she often isn't included with this particular group of women, is the fact that she presented herself in a more aggressive fashion (as was stated earlier in this thread about Joan Jett). She was very much "one of the guys," by all accounts.

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Originally Posted by elle View Post
i guess everybody here knows and accepts that she rambles on and doesn't really think what she's saying every time, and that maybe she doesn't really mean it the way it comes out... but not everybody knows and understands that if they don't know much about her.
Stevie speaks off the cuff, thankfully. No rehearsed responses or speeches. So, yeah, I'm sure there are times when things don't come out quite the way she meant them, but I prefer that. It's refreshing, and keeps things interesting when she's answering the same questions she's been asked for decades. It also shows us more of her human side.

If people who aren't as familiar with her don't get that, so be it.
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  #21  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:36 PM
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as a fan of BOTH Adele, and Gaga, they are NOT in Stevie's league. they rely HEAViLY on "co"-writers and TEAMS of producers.
you are going off topic. we are NOT discussing who we think is a better artist, what we are discussing is this:
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Originally Posted by bluecalmsea View Post
"We fought very hard for feminism, for women's rights," Nicks said in response to a question from the crowd. "What I'm seeing today is a very opposite thing. I don't know why, but I see women being put back in their place. And I hate it. We're losing all we worked so hard for, and it really bums me out."
what i'm saying is that somehow i can't see someone like Gaga allowing anybody to "put her in her place".
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  #22  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:39 PM
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you are going off topic. we are NOT discussing who we think is a better artist, what we are discussing is this:

what i'm saying is that somehow i can't see someone like Gaga allowing anybody to "put her in her place".
You are completely missing the point of her statement.

She is not taking a dig at the women of today - she's taking a dig at SOCIETY trying to put women "back in their place" after they've fought so hard to reach such heights and saying that she hates it. What you could possibly find wrong in that, or how you could possibly construe that as her belittling other women is completely beyond me, honestly.
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Stew View Post
IIn regards to Janis (and Stevie certainly gives her a lot of credit too), I think the reason she often isn't included with this particular group of women, is the fact that she presented herself in a more aggressive fashion (as was stated earlier in this thread about Joan Jett). She was very much "one of the guys," by all accounts.
so they don't count because woman has to be gorgeous and attractive to men to get ahead? smells like sexism.
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:44 PM
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what i'm saying is that somehow i can't see someone like Gaga allowing anybody to "put her in her place".
But it's telling, no, that of all the women in the industry right now, we have to keep coming back to the examples of Lady Gaga and Adele. Truth is, comparatively there really aren't a lot of women currently on the charts who aren't manufactured by a team of male managers, male record company execs, male songwriters, etc.

Which is why Stevie champions women like Vanessa Carlton, Norah Jones, and Michelle Branch.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:44 PM
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she's taking a dig at SOCIETY trying to put women "back in their place"
aren't women part of the society too?

the way i read her statement is - today's women are allowing themselves to be "put in their place" (whatever that is lol?), while she was fighting against that.
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  #26  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:47 PM
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aren't women part of the society too?

the way i read her statement is - today's women are allowing themselves to be "put in their place" (whatever that is lol?), while she was fighting against that.
Of course women are members of society, but society as a WHOLE is still a patriarchy.

Quite frankly, I think you read her statement wrong. And I don't think her statement was limited to the music industry - I also read that she mentioned that she was interested in getting involved in women's rights in a political fashion, too, although it is not quoted in this article.
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  #27  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:50 PM
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so they don't count because woman has to be gorgeous and attractive to men to get ahead? smells like sexism.
No ma'am -- but the argument is that you shouldn't have to act like a guy to be respected by them. Stevie wanted to be allowed, and for other female rockers to be allowed, to still be pretty and feminine (if they so desired), while being afforded the same level of respect for their talents as the men.
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  #28  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Stew View Post
But it's telling, no, that of all the women in the industry right now, we have to keep coming back to the examples of Lady Gaga and Adele. Truth is, comparatively there really aren't a lot of women currently on the charts who aren't manufactured by a team of male managers, male record company execs, male songwriters, etc.

Which is why Stevie champions women like Vanessa Carlton, Norah Jones, and Michelle Branch.
didn't know she championed Norah Jones, interesting.

i may be easily wrong but she seems to publicly champion women who are on the top and don't really need a champion (Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, Reese Witherspoon come to mind), not anybody who's struggling (kick-her-why-she's-down Lindsey Lohan).

i think Lady Gaga is the opposite of Stevie Nicks. now there's a woman who was apparently told no and shown the door plenty of times because she was "not pretty enough" to succeed in the industry where looks are more important than talent.
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:59 PM
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Gaga and Adele both have their contributions to the cause of individuality, but I would contend that they're not really breaking new ground. Gaga seems to me to deal in the same stock-in-trade as Madonna (catchy songs + controversial image), and I think Adele herself has said something to the effect of "I'm a pop star, I'm not really doing anything new". I will try and look for the quote although I doubt I'll be able to find it.

I think women have generally had it easier in pop music than in rock music. But I don't know if Stevie is referring to success in a given genre or if she's talking about being taken advantage of by labels. I do think that a lot of record execs and the like are men, though, and that inevitably tilts things in a given direction.

Generally I think Stevie has a pretty pessimistic view of the business today, and I'm not sure I agree with all of it, but I'm also nowhere near the industry myself and I also don't think one can conclude that she's blaming or condemning female artists. She's disappointed not to see more push back than what she wants to see, but she can't be feeling bad for anyone but the female artists themselves since they are the ones suffering from it. I see her being friendly or complementary in some way or other with so many younger women, Beyonce, Sheryl Crow, Carly Rae Jepsen of all people. I think in the controversy with Nicki Minaj (for which she apologized for her comments twds Minaj) she said that she was coming from a place of protectiveness of Mariah Carey. I dunno, I actually can't think of another woman of her generation who connects so positively with as many younger women, to be honest. It's to the point where I was actually shocked that she was so cold towards Lindsay Lohan, it didn't seem like her MO.

And there's a huge difference between saying women have to be like one of the guys and women can't be like one of the guys. I think it's obvious which one is the issue here. Being like one of the guys helps women be taken more seriously, which is wrong. That doesn't make it wrong for a woman to be like one of the guys. That shouldn't need spelling out.

Last edited by redbird : 03-15-2013 at 11:03 PM.
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:08 PM
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didn't know she championed Norah Jones, interesting.

i may be easily wrong but she seems to publicly champion women who are on the top and don't really need a champion (Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, Reese Witherspoon come to mind), not anybody who's struggling (kick-her-why-she's-down Lindsey Lohan).
Stevie's almost always supported up & coming female artists, like Louise Goffin, Sandy Stewart and Marilyn Martin. But I'm sure that, in a lot of cases, she doesn't really get to know some of these women (like Norah Jones) until they've already gotten their foot at least partially in the door (she wouldn't really have much of an opportunity to be introduced to them prior to that).

But I really can't think of many artists for whom the notion of "Girl Power" is as important as it seems to be to Stevie. Rather than treat them like "the competition," she praises other female artists and embraces them.

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i think Lady Gaga is the opposite of Stevie Nicks. now there's a woman who was apparently told no and shown the door plenty of times because she was "not pretty enough" to succeed in the industry where looks are more important than talent.
A fact which actually strengthens Stevie's point -- in the 2000s, after all the inroads made during the '70s & '80s, female artists are still being told they're "not pretty enough," instead of being signed on the merit of their talents.
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