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  #1  
Old 04-13-2018, 09:26 AM
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Default This was likely a Business Decision

According to Elle's post (On the Mick's Social Media thread) of the Facebook conversation with Rick Turner, this sounds like it was a business decision, plain and simple.

I'm no business expert, but clearly it would not make good business sense for them to allow Lindsey to solo tour in between the Mac shows. If Stevie or Christine asked to do that, they would be shot down too. Let's say Don Henley asked to do the same thing during an Eagles tour - do you think the rest of the band members would allow that? Uh, NO. How about the Police? - If Sting asked the other members if he could do solo shows in between Police tour dates, I also doubt they would allow that. So if Lindsey indeed came to them and asked them about doing the in between solo shows and they wouldn't allow it, Lindsey must have insisted, which caused Mick/the rest of them to dismiss him.

Yes, there might be more to it than this, but this is probably the biggest reason for Lindsey's ousting.

I'm no tour manager, but as far as Lindsey's solo career goes, doesn't he have a solo album coming out this month? If so, I'm wondering why he couldn't tour it BEFORE Fleetwood Mac starts (allegedly) in the Fall? If he did that, he probably would have been able to stay with Fleetwood Mac.


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Old 04-13-2018, 09:27 AM
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For convenience purposes, here is the Rick Turner Facebook conversation:


the whole convo -

Rick Turner At one point, Lindsey had proposed that both FM and he with his band tour at the same time with the LB band filling in dates between the FM shows. The report was that Stevie wanted at least a day between gigs; Lindsey wanted to play as much as possible. That's what I heard from a most reliable source at the NAMM show in January.

Elle Llewi heard the same. thanks so much for filling this in Rick!

Elle Llew Rick Turner is it ok if i quote this on The Ledge? it's a google-able place and people sometimes check there.

Rick Turner Elle Llew Sure. I think it just points out one point of contention. Maybe it looked to some as though LB was going to do really well touring hard; perhaps not doubling his money on the tour, but certainly getting in nearly twice the audience face tim...See More

Elle Llew Rick Turner 😪 this makes me sad even more. what a f**king shame!

Elle Llew (excuse my language)

Rick Turner The whole thing is a mess, and I'm sorry for them all. I've had some memorable moments with that crew!

Haley Clark So then tensions were already high at Musicares. Because NAMM and Musicares were the same weekend. Which is probably what led to Stevie and Lindsey having their fight. And the rest is history.

Felix Le Chat Rick this is the most disgusting thing to hear: all could have been avoided.
Give Stevie 2, 3 or even 4 days between shows. I wouldnít mind to visit consecutive LB gigs 😜
...See More

Pattie D I know for a fact that LB wanted to do a solo tour in between the FM tour. He did say that it was complicated and I guess he wasn't kidding.
I hope he gets to do the solo tour after all. I will not support Fleetwood Mac anymore.

Rick Turner Felix Le Chat Lindsey would have gotten more press than Stevie if they'd done a double tour like that.

Pattie D I really couldn't see Fleetwood Mac going along with his plans. What if people couldn't afford to see FM and went to see LB instead as it was more economical? Big problem.

Rick Turner Pattie D Would have to have been planned for different cities.

Pattie D I could see where that would get costly. Not to mention would the crew get any rest?

Elle Llew but that makes complete sense:

FM plays arena in downtown DC. LB solo plays the Fillmore in Silver Spring, MD.

FM plays MSG . LB solo plays Red Bank, NJ.

easy peasy!

Felix Le Chat Rick Turner : a logistical nightmare (aside from costs) 😝 to have it in different cities.
Most cities do have multiple venues. Although in this group the LB fan ship reels highly I do believe Lindsey would have been ok to play smaller venues than FM.

And Iím sure he got enough guitars 🎸 for 2 sets (if not you could probably help on that &#128540


Rick Turner Pattie D Well, it would just be two interlaced tours with some of the folks working practically every night. But that's what they do in musical theater...Broadway and off-Broadway actors do eight shows a week...six nights and two matinees. That's what professionals are capable of. At one point the Beach Boys were often enough doing two gigs on the same day, and on at least one day, they did three...in three different cities. Lot's of alimony to pay for those guys!

Pattie D Don't forget Providence after FM plays Boston, Elle. LOL

Elle LlewYPattie D i'm self serving

Rick Turner It would have been doable. It just needed everyone's buy-in.

Pattie D Well sadly it's never going to happen now.

Elle Llew Felix Le Chat nope, wouldn't be. see above. FM plays cities, LB solo suburbs. works!



here's the link to these posts: https://www.facebook.com/groups/8972...5412200239934/
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jkmaletic View Post
Rick Turner The whole thing is a mess, and I'm sorry for them all. I've had some memorable moments with that crew!
Love that part of the convo! There was nothing amicable here.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jkmaletic View Post
According to Elle's post (On the Mick's Social Media thread) of the Facebook conversation with Rick Turner, this sounds like it was a business decision, plain and simple.

I'm no business expert, but clearly it would not make good business sense for them to allow Lindsey to solo tour in between the Mac shows. If Stevie or Christine asked to do that, they would be shot down too. Let's say Don Henley asked to do the same thing during an Eagles tour - do you think the rest of the band members would allow that? Uh, NO. How about the Police? - If Sting asked the other members if he could do solo shows in between Police tour dates, I also doubt they would allow that. So if Lindsey indeed came to them and asked them about doing the in between solo shows and they wouldn't allow it, Lindsey must have insisted, which caused Mick/the rest of them to dismiss him.

Yes, there might be more to it than this, but this is probably the biggest reason for Lindsey's ousting.

I'm no tour manager, but as far as Lindsey's solo career goes, doesn't he have a solo album coming out this month? If so, I'm wondering why he couldn't tour it BEFORE Fleetwood Mac starts (allegedly) in the Fall? If he did that, he probably would have been able to stay with Fleetwood Mac.


Jamie
and yet, Stevie had no problem whatsoever with the Pretenders doing it.

it's interesting view to ponder, for sure, but doesn't make sense when you take into account Stevie's last year's tour with the Pretenders.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:40 AM
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and yet, Stevie had no problem whatsoever with the Pretenders doing it.

it's interesting view to ponder, for sure, but doesn't make sense when you take into account Stevie's last year's tour with the Pretenders.
But the Pretenders weren't part of her own solo band, just the opening act, nor did they use her staff/crew. If Waddy or Al were to ask her if they could join another tour during 24K Gold I think she'd surely deny.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:43 AM
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But the Pretenders weren't part of her own solo band, just the opening act, nor did they use her staff/crew. If Waddy or Al were to ask her if they could join another tour during 24K Gold I think she'd surely deny.
the pretenders were a big part of the draw for her tour. and same people were playing in the pretenders opening for her and at their solo gigs.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:45 AM
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Of course, the point is that they are a separate band with a separate entourage.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jkmaletic View Post
According to Elle's post (On the Mick's Social Media thread) of the Facebook conversation with Rick Turner, this sounds like it was a business decision, plain and simple.

I'm no business expert, but clearly it would not make good business sense for them to allow Lindsey to solo tour in between the Mac shows. If Stevie or Christine asked to do that, they would be shot down too. Let's say Don Henley asked to do the same thing during an Eagles tour - do you think the rest of the band members would allow that? Uh, NO. How about the Police? - If Sting asked the other members if he could do solo shows in between Police tour dates, I also doubt they would allow that. So if Lindsey indeed came to them and asked them about doing the in between solo shows and they wouldn't allow it, Lindsey must have insisted, which caused Mick/the rest of them to dismiss him.

Yes, there might be more to it than this, but this is probably the biggest reason for Lindsey's ousting.

I'm no tour manager, but as far as Lindsey's solo career goes, doesn't he have a solo album coming out this month? If so, I'm wondering why he couldn't tour it BEFORE Fleetwood Mac starts (allegedly) in the Fall? If he did that, he probably would have been able to stay with Fleetwood Mac.


Jamie
I'd guess that was probably the likely plan originally. Lindsey's album release was delayed/cancelled/held back. Perhaps it just wasn't ready for release. Lindsey then said 'Look guys, I've got an album coming out but promo is going to need to overlap with Fleetwood Mac dates'.
Either that or FM tour was brought forward. I recall them discussing the start of the tour in the Autumn now its supposedly going to kick off in the summer.

Anyway, when we are talking about Lindsey Buckingham entourage, what are we talking? I mean, One Man Show - Elle, what would that have involved in terms of personnel?
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:17 AM
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Have this lot never heard of forward planning ?
Or planning of any kind

My daughter gets married May 2019.....invites ready, dress measured and ordered, food sorted etc etc
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:00 AM
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Have this lot never heard of forward planning ?
Or planning of any kind

My daughter gets married May 2019.....invites ready, dress measured and ordered, food sorted etc etc
Lol, "planning"...not with this band.

I remember some years ago there was a Fleetwood Mac fan club. Part of the fan club package was a wall calendar. Those calendars didn't get mailed out to the fans until part of that calendar year was already over. It was the biggest inside joke between fans at the time.

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Old 04-13-2018, 11:46 AM
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The idea that Lindsey's boutique concerts in support of a solo "best of" collection would cut into even an iota of Mac tour revenue is ludicrous. This wouldn't work for Stevie because I do think she would impact Mac revenues touring simultaneously.

It actually seems like an elegant solution to usual Mac tension of solo and group careers. The motivations behind using this as the excuse to excommunicate Lindsey are frightening to contemplate.
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:56 AM
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I agree, there's a world of difference between an opening act playing their own gig on a night off and someone from the same band playing a solo gig on a night off. The Pretenders only did it a few times, anyway, but even if they had done it 100 times, it's not the same thing. I would have this opinion whether it was Lindsey asking for it or it was Stevie asking for it. It would be ridiculous for Stevie to ask to perform solo shows on the nights FM had off.

I feel badly for Lindsey because this reeks of bad timing that's probably out of his control. He probably agreed to this tour last year, I mean he's mentioned before FM was going on your in 2018, but his record company probably dictates when they'll release the record, so that's out of his control, but of course he would want to perform solo gigs when the record is released. Likewise, I can see why the rest of the band doesn't like the idea that one of their frontline band members would be dividing his time between two tours. Logistically it's crazy, plus it's competition for their own tour.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:24 PM
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I can see where an overlap in material might be a point of contention or negotiation-- e.g., "please don't do GYOW or whatever which is a big part of the FM repertoire in your solo shows"....but otherwise... I mean, no offense to LB, but the audiences that go to his solo shows (and I'm one of them) aren't going to wipe out huge profits from FM

I mean really, what songs are we talking about that could overlap with both gigs? GYOW? SHN? Tusk? I can see them not wanting him to do those in both places, and having that debate.

Diehard fans would try and see both shows (same if it were Stevie doing smaller venues and stripped down versions of her songs whilst on a Mac tour). And yes, honestly, if it were Stevie her doing solo shows might well impact ticket sales for FM as she's a main draw for many of the more casual fans as well.

Still, while I get the legitimate arguments that can be made business-wise on both sides, I'm trying to envision how it got to the breaking point. If people were saying it was Lindsey who pitched a fit and said, "That's it, I'm out" it would make a lot more sense to me. But them saying, 'look, you're fired'.... Again, if it was a biz negotiation and they gave him an ultimatum of "either you do just the Mac tour or your solo tour, but not both" and forced HIM to make the choice, again I would understand.

But the stories coming out are that THEY kicked him out. Further, we hear that Stevie said she couldn't work with him anymore or wouldn't, and that possibly Mick polled promoters to see who they thought would sell more seats, Stevie or Lindsey, and then decided accordingly who could stay in and who had to leave the band.

The more I think about it, the only way it makes sense is if the band said to him, we won't support the solo gigs, and you need to commit to just FM or just solo but not both, and he chose solo. It's harder to get to the convo of "you're fired" based on this business stuff..
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:38 PM
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I can see where an overlap in material might be a point of contention or negotiation-- e.g., "please don't do GYOW or whatever which is a big part of the FM repertoire in your solo shows"....but otherwise... I mean, no offense to LB, but the audiences that go to his solo shows (and I'm one of them) aren't going to wipe out huge profits from FM

I mean really, what songs are we talking about that could overlap with both gigs? GYOW? SHN? Tusk? I can see them not wanting him to do those in both places, and having that debate.

Diehard fans would try and see both shows (same if it were Stevie doing smaller venues and stripped down versions of her songs whilst on a Mac tour). And yes, honestly, if it were Stevie her doing solo shows might well impact ticket sales for FM as she's a main draw for many of the more casual fans as well.

Still, while I get the legitimate arguments that can be made business-wise on both sides, I'm trying to envision how it got to the breaking point. If people were saying it was Lindsey who pitched a fit and said, "That's it, I'm out" it would make a lot more sense to me. But them saying, 'look, you're fired'.... Again, if it was a biz negotiation and they gave him an ultimatum of "either you do just the Mac tour or your solo tour, but not both" and forced HIM to make the choice, again I would understand.

But the stories coming out are that THEY kicked him out. Further, we hear that Stevie said she couldn't work with him anymore or wouldn't, and that possibly Mick polled promoters to see who they thought would sell more seats, Stevie or Lindsey, and then decided accordingly who could stay in and who had to leave the band.

The more I think about it, the only way it makes sense is if the band said to him, we won't support the solo gigs, and you need to commit to just FM or just solo but not both, and he chose solo. It's harder to get to the convo of "you're fired" based on this business stuff..


...furthermore we are led to believe he asked to be allowed back. That would suggest after he was fired he went back to them and said 'Fine, I wont do the solo tour, I'll just do Fleetwood Mac shows'.
Surely if that's the case then they should have said 'Cool, lets go'.
Instead they refused.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:00 PM
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and yet, Stevie had no problem whatsoever with the Pretenders doing it.

it's interesting view to ponder, for sure, but doesn't make sense when you take into account Stevie's last year's tour with the Pretenders.
Great point!!
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