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  #31  
Old 10-22-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
You're a real piece of work.
You don't know the half of it.
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  #32  
Old 10-22-2018, 12:57 PM
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I don't understand
Sorry. That wasn't so much directed at you as others.
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  #33  
Old 10-22-2018, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
Sorry. That wasn't so much directed at you as others.
For the record, I've never particularly been a Stevie fan, but I've certainly never disliked her. So too, I've never particularly been a Lindsey fan either.
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  #34  
Old 10-22-2018, 01:19 PM
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For what it's worth, some relevant quotes from the recent unauthorized biography by Stephen Davis. Admittedly, the book seems to be a rehash of interviews and articles that have been published, so it is what it is. That being said, if, nothing else, the book seems to be meticulously researched.

Courtesy of America's most trusted news source, the New York Post.

https://nypost.com/2017/11/11/lindse...d-in-new-book/

Quote:
Their record label had asked the duo to look “sexy,” and the bookish Nicks was already feeling self-conscious when the photographer told her to remove her diaphanous white blouse.

She didn’t want to do it. Buckingham lost it.

“Don’t be a f–king child,” the then-24-year-old guitarist snapped. “This is art!”
Quote:
She said he was “hijacking” her music and told her mother that her now-ex had gotten physical with her during a row and had “thrown her down to the floor.”
Quote:
At a concert in Wellington, New Zealand, Buckingham tried to trip Nicks onstage and began imitating her moves. While Nicks was singing “Rhiannon,” the guitarist stopped playing and attempted to kick her.

The rest of the band was shocked, but only singer Christine McVie confronted him about it. Buckingham, who reportedly never apologized, has stated that he doesn’t remember the incident.
Quote:
One time, during a heated argument in front of the band in 1987, Buckingham, the book says, “manhandled Stevie, slapped her face and bent her backward over the hood of his car. He put his fingers around her neck and started to choke her.” Nicks said: “I thought he was going to kill me.” This time, her band stood up to him. He wouldn’t lay a hand on her again.
...and just to add some serious shade:

Quote:
“Stevie was an American legend, but Lindsey’s star would eventually fade away.”
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  #35  
Old 10-22-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
How do we know that?
Well, since you and I both know it's impossible to prove a negative, the next best thing we can do is rely on rely on first-hand accounts from the principals themselves (TV/audio interviews with band members, Mick's book, etc.). Print interviews are a good source, too, since they're often based on audio-recorded interviews and verified by fact-checkers and editors.

Then there's the fact that we're lucky to be a part of a community here that has an incredible amount of institutional knowledge, dating back in some cases to the late 60s and early 70s. These people are able to and often do step in with their perspective during contentious arguments. And of course there are a few (usually quiet) folks who are more plugged in to the band's inner circle than the rest of us.

Our job, as well-educated humans on this earth, is to take all of the relevant information we can find and form our beliefs based on the information available to us. Might we come to different conclusions? Sure. But when we're basing our beliefs on verifiable information, it makes for an enriching discussion for everyone involved. Where we deviate from that, allowing preconceived opinions and biases to seep into our views, the conversation devolves and nobody benefits.

The reason I do not believe Lindsey, or any other member of the band, has sexually assaulted another individual is because I have never come across evidence that shows he or they did. Is it possible that that has occurred and I'm unaware of it? Yes. But is it reasonable to believe one of them has sexually assaulted someone without that evidence, though? No, it's not.

That's not to say you can't have a negative opinion of Lindsey because of things he's said and done in the past. You are welcome to that view, and I'm sure it is well-founded in your mind. But to make the leap from that to sexual assault is one I am not willing to make. To me, the topic is too serious for idle, baseless speculation.
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  #36  
Old 10-22-2018, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
Can we just let go of the whole I used to be a Stevie fan pretense? No one's really buying it.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Don't you tell me that I wasn't a Stevie fan. HUGE FAN. That's what I was and that's a FACT!! I have every one of her albums (even the last one). I've been a fan since 1977. She has disappointed me SO many times recently that I can't do it anymore.
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  #37  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by secondhandchain View Post
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Don't you tell me that I wasn't a Stevie fan. HUGE FAN. That's what I was and that's a FACT!! I have every one of her albums (even the last one). I've been a fan since 1977. She has disappointed me SO many times recently that I can't do it anymore.
Actually I wasn't even thinking of you when I made that comment.
If you can't do it anymore maybe the best thing is to stop talking about it.
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  #38  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jeets2000 View Post
That's not to say you can't have a negative opinion of Lindsey because of things he's said and done in the past. You are welcome to that view, and I'm sure it is well-founded in your mind. But to make the leap from that to sexual assault is one I am not willing to make. To me, the topic is too serious for idle, baseless speculation.
Just to be clear I don't know if you read my initial post but that leap is certainly one am I not willing to make nor have I made it.

It seems like there is some confusion about what the movement actually is (not by you). So here is the definition from Wikipedia:
The Me Too movement (or #MeToo movement), with many local and international alternatives, is a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault.[1][2][3] #MeToo spread virally in October 2017 as a hashtag used on social media in an attempt to demonstrate the widespread prevalence of sexual assault and harassment, especially in the workplace.[4][5] It followed soon after the sexual misconduct allegations against Harvey Weinstein.[6][7] Tarana Burke, an American social activist and community organizer, began using the phrase "Me Too" as early as 2006, and the phrase was later popularized by American actress Alyssa Milano, on Twitter in 2017. Milano and Michael Baker encouraged victims of sexual harassment to tweet about it and "give people a sense of the magnitude of the problem".[8][9] This was met with success that included but was not limited to high-profile posts from several American celebrities, including Gwyneth Paltrow,[10] Ashley Judd,[11] Jennifer Lawrence,[12] and Uma Thurman.[13]

There's more, a lot more at Wikipedia but that sums it up pretty well.
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Last edited by gldstwmn : 10-22-2018 at 02:11 PM.
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  #39  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum View Post
For the record, I've never particularly been a Stevie fan, but I've certainly never disliked her. So too, I've never particularly been a Lindsey fan either.
You like the band as a whole or is Chris your favorite?
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  #40  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
Just to be clear I don't know if you read my initial post but that leap is certainly one am I not willing to make nor have I made it.
Right. I stated that none of the members of Fleetwood Mac had been credibly accused of sexual assault to date. Then you asked, "How do we know that?" which, perhaps inaccurately, led me to believe you might have doubts about my statement (i.e., someone in the band IS a sexual assaulter), despite your earlier post.

I apologize if you felt that portion was directed specifically at you. I was just trying to explain my view and why I felt like this thread -- though an important topic -- is not relevant to Fleetwood Mac based on the information we all have.
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:23 PM
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  #41  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:25 PM
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I'd be very careful with this post, this title to it and this thread.

It smacks of allegations that could be construed as slander, and might get The Ledge in serious trouble.

Just my opinion.

It might be a different story to post such a thread and start a discussion if this day had brought the stunner in the Mainstream Media that actual sexual abuse/assault allegations have been filed against Lindsey Buckingham.

Otherwise it may be wise to take the thread down. Also because the man has a wife and under age kids.

It's one thing to "accuse" a person of being a poor friend or musician or colleague, it's a whole different ball of wax to baselessly connect that person to a movement that sprung forth in reaction to felony offenses and in that way, to be implying criminal behavior.
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  #42  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
It seems like there is some confusion about what the movement actually is (not by you). So here is the definition from Wikipedia:
The Me Too movement (or #MeToo movement), with many local and international alternatives, is a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault.[1][2][3] #MeToo spread virally in October 2017 as a hashtag used on social media in an attempt to demonstrate the widespread prevalence of sexual assault and harassment, especially in the workplace.[4][5] It followed soon after the sexual misconduct allegations against Harvey Weinstein.[6][7] Tarana Burke, an American social activist and community organizer, began using the phrase "Me Too" as early as 2006, and the phrase was later popularized by American actress Alyssa Milano, on Twitter in 2017. Milano and Michael Baker encouraged victims of sexual harassment to tweet about it and "give people a sense of the magnitude of the problem".[8][9] This was met with success that included but was not limited to high-profile posts from several American celebrities, including Gwyneth Paltrow,[10] Ashley Judd,[11] Jennifer Lawrence,[12] and Uma Thurman.[13]

There's more, a lot more at Wikipedia but that sums it up pretty well.
Just saw your edit with this update. Thanks for posting, as I suspect you might be right re: confusion and the original post.
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  #43  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jeets2000 View Post
Right. I stated that none of the members of Fleetwood Mac had been credibly accused of sexual assault to date. Then you asked, "How do we know that?" which, perhaps inaccurately, led me to believe you might have doubts about my statement (i.e., someone in the band IS a sexual assaulter), despite your earlier post.

I apologize if you felt that portion was directed specifically at you. I was just trying to explain my view and why I felt like this thread -- though an important topic -- is not relevant to Fleetwood Mac based on the information we all have.
No worries. I get what you're saying.
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  #44  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
You like the band as a whole or is Chris your favorite?
I am a Fleetwood Mac fan- all eras.
I own most Stevie albums but not all. I find it hard to listen to too much Stevie at a stretch.
I own most Lindsey albums but not all. I find it hard to listen to too much Lindsey at a stretch.
I am/was mostly a Christine fan.
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Last edited by FuzzyPlum : 10-22-2018 at 02:46 PM.
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  #45  
Old 10-22-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse View Post
Probably yes. Most of the Lindsey loving Stevie haters on this forum haven't read Carol Ann Harris' book "Storms which you cited in your post. If they read the book, they might have a better understanding of why a band decides enough is enough and it's best to move on and bring in new band members in order to create a peaceful, happy work environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum View Post
a) most of us aren't Lindsey lovers per se
b) most of us aren't Stevie haters per se
c) most of us probably have read Carol Ann Harris' book
d) what the f**k has that book got to do with it? It was written concerning events about 35-40 years ago. This is 2018.
e) no, reading that book I don't get any understanding of why a band decides enough is enough and its best to move on. wtf?
Sugar Mick, you have no hot a** clue what you are talking about. Do you honestly not think that those of us who have been fans of this band for decades would not have read that book? This shows how out of touch, and how condescending you can be about subjects that you manage to invent a pile of conjecture about. Sheesh.

FuzzyPlum, thank you for summarizing it for Sugar Mick.
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