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  #61  
Old 10-21-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
Interesting that many still don't understand or don't want to understand the spark for many people's ire at Stevie.

No one disputes Lindsey was a sh*tty b*stard to her for a very, very long time. His issues over their breakup clouded his behavior towards her.

No one disputes that she put up with this for a long time..... because the band was successful and making lots of money and giving them lots of fame beyond what they could get solo, even Stevie, and because in her competitiveness she decided she would not be the one to blame for breaking up the band. So she gutted it out. This was HER choice. She could have walked away from FM anytime after her huge solo success.

Many refuse to accept that she was locked in a co-dependent relationship with Lindsey for years which means she participated in the love-hate thing and could be just as manipulative and yelling and fighting with him as he could with her. She just puts a better PR face on things to convince you how reasonable she is and he didn't play the PR game as well and didn't hide how 'prickly' he was (his wife's word).

He did indeed try to understand her point of view and accommodate her style more-- she talked a lot about them at one point in the late 90s or so sitting down and really hashing things out and her telling him things she'd never said before and him saying "I wish I'd know that" etc. and they seemed to reach a level of detente.

Despite the goggles her die-hard fans continue to wear when watching the DR documentary, he was not confrontational to her in any of the scenes we saw. Him telling her she's using poor grammar (she was) was NOT 'confrontational'. The discussion about the contract to mix songs was not confrontational on his part either; but it WAS on her part. Yet many choose not to see it. She brought in another person and double-teamed him to pressure him to sign a contract he correctly would not sign. She sicced her assistant on him, and then whined while he was on the phone and then followed him out of the room. Yet he was being mean to her.

Her manipulation of the band continued with the excuses not to record. And for a while to not tour, so much so that Mick went to the press and did whiny interviews about how FM was finished because of her.

Lindsey may or may not have pitched a battle about the choice of intro music at Musicares (isn't it funny that so many on here whine about 'name the sources!' when a story comes out that makes Stevie look bad, but when there's an unnamed source that says Lindsey threw a fit at Musicares, well by golly it must be true!) and he mimed dancing while Stevie spoke (well after Chris and Mick checked their watches, laughed, then waltzed together).

Rather than Stevie saying look, this is the final tour, and telling her manager to tell his manager that she had a list of conditions for the tour that she wanted from him or something that attempted to slog out one final tour she lays down an ultimatum to the band that he's out or she's out.

Given the speed at which the band immediately replaced Lindsey with one of Stevie's favorite guitarists and co-writers, Mick did not bother to act as band leader and try to keep the band together for their final tour but capitulated right away, and then was complicit in convincing John to support the decision and then saying it only takes a majority vote not a unanimous vote to kick someone out. The band agreed to kick out a member and bring in a specific new member within DAYS of that event.

The band proceeded to lie to their fans and the public about what happened, why it happened, and when it happened. They also perpetuated a lie when they promoted the tour with photos of the Rumours5 line up. Their bottom line has been so unabashedly about doing the tour and making the final money. There's been little to no attempt whatsoever to even pretend they have an artistic or legacy motivation for this tour. They know they are lying and they are unwilling to face up to it because NO ONE is doing any interviews to promote this tour at all. (They've surely been advised by lawyers anything they say can be brought up in the lawsuit).

They've resorted to tricks like having side players speak in interviews to say how great things are on tour.

While there's a lot of Stevie bashing, there's also been a lot of Mick bashing, and a lot of head-scratching about the role of the McVies. Many a Chris fan has found themselves disappointed and disillusioned about her response. And no one has denied Lindsey can be a royal pain in the arse and demanding and pouty. But there's a contingent that insists that Stevie has never been and is never any of these things. He has consistently made attempts to make amends and move forward. She has resisted.

She broke up the band with a sneaky move, and with Mick's enabling. Not Lindsey. There is clearly a lot more that may come out due to the lawsuit, and the band's very pointed response indicated they are ready for a fight. The fact that people find this interesting and are speculating on when and how that other shoe might drop and what might come out should not shock people. Yet somehow it does. If people want to ignore the fuss and put their heads down and accept whatever the band dishes out, fine.

If people don't like reading nasty comments, skip over them. It's not hard. This cuts both ways. Personal attacks from one poster to another are just not acceptable. Argue the point someone is making but don't attack the person. There has been too much of that on here for sure. But bashing a band member is not the same thing.
bombaysaffires, what a beautifully written and sensible post. Thank you for summing up so well.
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  #62  
Old 10-21-2018, 02:06 PM
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lovethemac1 lovethemac1 is offline
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
In reading the Rolling Stone article and Lindey's court filing the takeaways I had were:
I don't think LB and his wife live together 100% of the time.
This is a concerted attack by someone who is very, very practiced at being an emotional terrorist.
Stevie is a god damned saint for putting up with this sh!t for 40 years.

What on earth are you talking about? This is the strangest post I've read, and you write some pretty strange ones.

Show us the facts please, like you ask everyone else to do.
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  #63  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:01 PM
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I tend to think that if Lindsey had been fired for bad behavior, he would told everyone he left for his solo career. Mick said on national TV that fired was not a word they liked to use. Lindsey has said he was let go and didn't want to leave. So either he is very obtuse or there was no real reason for his being fired, which he was.

For him to go forward with a lawsuit says that he feels he was the one wronged and he has no ill will towards the rest of the group, even Stevie. Is it possible that he would have no idea that he did something to make the rest of the group can him?

This group of peoples actions and statements are the reason the fans are so divided into teams. They have perpetuated it. It has become a he said/they said and the fans have had to pick a side. In the end, it was probably a bit of both sides fault as these things usually are.

I just keep thinking of Lindsey's words in his email to Mick, with the finish line in sight, why would they break up at this point. Good Lord, Stevie could have not traveled with Lindsey, it could have been set up that the only time she had to see him was on stage. Hell, they don't even have to look at each other. Do the 60 city tour, get your millions and retire with a great legacy and some dignity.

Yes, I've seen the videos of the tour and it looks like it would be a fun night. Not what I really wanted, but enjoyable. But all this has just tarnished the legacy of Fleetwood Mac, when it should have been a time of celebrating 50 years.
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  #64  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
In reading the Rolling Stone article and Lindey's court filing the takeaways I had were:
I don't think LB and his wife live together 100% of the time.
This is a concerted attack by someone who is very, very practiced at being an emotional terrorist.
Stevie is a god damned saint for putting up with this sh!t for 40 years.
This post actually makes zero sense. Not sure what it is you’re trying to accomplish with BS posts like this...
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  #65  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:49 PM
FuzzyPlum FuzzyPlum is offline
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Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
Interesting that many still don't understand or don't want to understand the spark for many people's ire at Stevie.

No one disputes Lindsey was a sh*tty b*stard to her for a very, very long time. His issues over their breakup clouded his behavior towards her.

No one disputes that she put up with this for a long time..... because the band was successful and making lots of money and giving them lots of fame beyond what they could get solo, even Stevie, and because in her competitiveness she decided she would not be the one to blame for breaking up the band. So she gutted it out. This was HER choice. She could have walked away from FM anytime after her huge solo success.

Many refuse to accept that she was locked in a co-dependent relationship with Lindsey for years which means she participated in the love-hate thing and could be just as manipulative and yelling and fighting with him as he could with her. She just puts a better PR face on things to convince you how reasonable she is and he didn't play the PR game as well and didn't hide how 'prickly' he was (his wife's word).

He did indeed try to understand her point of view and accommodate her style more-- she talked a lot about them at one point in the late 90s or so sitting down and really hashing things out and her telling him things she'd never said before and him saying "I wish I'd know that" etc. and they seemed to reach a level of detente.

Despite the goggles her die-hard fans continue to wear when watching the DR documentary, he was not confrontational to her in any of the scenes we saw. Him telling her she's using poor grammar (she was) was NOT 'confrontational'. The discussion about the contract to mix songs was not confrontational on his part either; but it WAS on her part. Yet many choose not to see it. She brought in another person and double-teamed him to pressure him to sign a contract he correctly would not sign. She sicced her assistant on him, and then whined while he was on the phone and then followed him out of the room. Yet he was being mean to her.

Her manipulation of the band continued with the excuses not to record. And for a while to not tour, so much so that Mick went to the press and did whiny interviews about how FM was finished because of her.

Lindsey may or may not have pitched a battle about the choice of intro music at Musicares (isn't it funny that so many on here whine about 'name the sources!' when a story comes out that makes Stevie look bad, but when there's an unnamed source that says Lindsey threw a fit at Musicares, well by golly it must be true!) and he mimed dancing while Stevie spoke (well after Chris and Mick checked their watches, laughed, then waltzed together).

Rather than Stevie saying look, this is the final tour, and telling her manager to tell his manager that she had a list of conditions for the tour that she wanted from him or something that attempted to slog out one final tour she lays down an ultimatum to the band that he's out or she's out.

Given the speed at which the band immediately replaced Lindsey with one of Stevie's favorite guitarists and co-writers, Mick did not bother to act as band leader and try to keep the band together for their final tour but capitulated right away, and then was complicit in convincing John to support the decision and then saying it only takes a majority vote not a unanimous vote to kick someone out. The band agreed to kick out a member and bring in a specific new member within DAYS of that event.

The band proceeded to lie to their fans and the public about what happened, why it happened, and when it happened. They also perpetuated a lie when they promoted the tour with photos of the Rumours5 line up. Their bottom line has been so unabashedly about doing the tour and making the final money. There's been little to no attempt whatsoever to even pretend they have an artistic or legacy motivation for this tour. They know they are lying and they are unwilling to face up to it because NO ONE is doing any interviews to promote this tour at all. (They've surely been advised by lawyers anything they say can be brought up in the lawsuit).

They've resorted to tricks like having side players speak in interviews to say how great things are on tour.

While there's a lot of Stevie bashing, there's also been a lot of Mick bashing, and a lot of head-scratching about the role of the McVies. Many a Chris fan has found themselves disappointed and disillusioned about her response. And no one has denied Lindsey can be a royal pain in the arse and demanding and pouty. But there's a contingent that insists that Stevie has never been and is never any of these things. He has consistently made attempts to make amends and move forward. She has resisted.

She broke up the band with a sneaky move, and with Mick's enabling. Not Lindsey. There is clearly a lot more that may come out due to the lawsuit, and the band's very pointed response indicated they are ready for a fight. The fact that people find this interesting and are speculating on when and how that other shoe might drop and what might come out should not shock people. Yet somehow it does. If people want to ignore the fuss and put their heads down and accept whatever the band dishes out, fine.

If people don't like reading nasty comments, skip over them. It's not hard. This cuts both ways. Personal attacks from one poster to another are just not acceptable. Argue the point someone is making but don't attack the person. There has been too much of that on here for sure. But bashing a band member is not the same thing.

Very eloquently put. Yes, I agree with this 100%
What irritates me is some people think fans should just accept the situation, not comment and just move on. It's been the soundtrack to my life and I feel I have every right to express my displeasure (and continue to do so long as I feel the need to do so). I still have a real love for the remaining band, I just really don't like them at the moment. That so many people feel the same way speaks volumes.
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  #66  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:51 PM
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I totally agree Fuzzy Plum
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  #67  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by lovethemac1 View Post
What on earth are you talking about? This is the strangest post I've read, and you write some pretty strange ones.

Show us the facts please, like you ask everyone else to do.
You are right. Strangest, post EVER.
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  #68  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
In reading the Rolling Stone article and Lindey's court filing the takeaways I had were:
I don't think LB and his wife live together 100% of the time.
This is a concerted attack by someone who is very, very practiced at being an emotional terrorist.
Stevie is a god damned saint for putting up with this sh!t for 40 years.
Get some sleep stat!
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  #69  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by secondhandchain View Post
Get some sleep stat!
Preferably a really really long sleep. #dirtnap.




That is a joke, btw...
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  #70  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
Preferably a really really long sleep. #dirtnap.




That is a joke, btw...
Drop dead. That's a joke too.
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  #71  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:33 PM
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Jesus Christ, just get a room already!
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  #72  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
exactly. it's an attempt at damage control. you know, he ruled with the iron fist, they ousted him, and now it's all happy happy happy democracy. except the guy slips somewhere in there and makes it clear it's actually not: everyone can chime in and say whatever but in the end it will be what SN and Mick say.
...and your point is? Even if it is true that SN and Mick have the ultimate say in all band-related decisions, don't you think they've earned it? Mick (with John) is the band's namesake. And other than Mick and John, Stevie has the longest tenure in the band. And as much as it pains you, Stevie is the one who puts the a$$es in seats. People are generally loving the setlist for the new tour, so you can't say that Mick and SN are somehow failing miserably at putting this show together.
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  #73  
Old 10-21-2018, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
Interesting that many still don't understand or don't want to understand the spark for many people's ire at Stevie.

No one disputes Lindsey was a sh*tty b*stard to her for a very, very long time. His issues over their breakup clouded his behavior towards her.

No one disputes that she put up with this for a long time..... because the band was successful and making lots of money and giving them lots of fame beyond what they could get solo, even Stevie, and because in her competitiveness she decided she would not be the one to blame for breaking up the band. So she gutted it out. This was HER choice. She could have walked away from FM anytime after her huge solo success.

Many refuse to accept that she was locked in a co-dependent relationship with Lindsey for years which means she participated in the love-hate thing and could be just as manipulative and yelling and fighting with him as he could with her. She just puts a better PR face on things to convince you how reasonable she is and he didn't play the PR game as well and didn't hide how 'prickly' he was (his wife's word).

He did indeed try to understand her point of view and accommodate her style more-- she talked a lot about them at one point in the late 90s or so sitting down and really hashing things out and her telling him things she'd never said before and him saying "I wish I'd know that" etc. and they seemed to reach a level of detente.

Despite the goggles her die-hard fans continue to wear when watching the DR documentary, he was not confrontational to her in any of the scenes we saw. Him telling her she's using poor grammar (she was) was NOT 'confrontational'. The discussion about the contract to mix songs was not confrontational on his part either; but it WAS on her part. Yet many choose not to see it. She brought in another person and double-teamed him to pressure him to sign a contract he correctly would not sign. She sicced her assistant on him, and then whined while he was on the phone and then followed him out of the room. Yet he was being mean to her.

Her manipulation of the band continued with the excuses not to record. And for a while to not tour, so much so that Mick went to the press and did whiny interviews about how FM was finished because of her.

Lindsey may or may not have pitched a battle about the choice of intro music at Musicares (isn't it funny that so many on here whine about 'name the sources!' when a story comes out that makes Stevie look bad, but when there's an unnamed source that says Lindsey threw a fit at Musicares, well by golly it must be true!) and he mimed dancing while Stevie spoke (well after Chris and Mick checked their watches, laughed, then waltzed together).

Rather than Stevie saying look, this is the final tour, and telling her manager to tell his manager that she had a list of conditions for the tour that she wanted from him or something that attempted to slog out one final tour she lays down an ultimatum to the band that he's out or she's out.

Given the speed at which the band immediately replaced Lindsey with one of Stevie's favorite guitarists and co-writers, Mick did not bother to act as band leader and try to keep the band together for their final tour but capitulated right away, and then was complicit in convincing John to support the decision and then saying it only takes a majority vote not a unanimous vote to kick someone out. The band agreed to kick out a member and bring in a specific new member within DAYS of that event.

The band proceeded to lie to their fans and the public about what happened, why it happened, and when it happened. They also perpetuated a lie when they promoted the tour with photos of the Rumours5 line up. Their bottom line has been so unabashedly about doing the tour and making the final money. There's been little to no attempt whatsoever to even pretend they have an artistic or legacy motivation for this tour. They know they are lying and they are unwilling to face up to it because NO ONE is doing any interviews to promote this tour at all. (They've surely been advised by lawyers anything they say can be brought up in the lawsuit).

They've resorted to tricks like having side players speak in interviews to say how great things are on tour.

While there's a lot of Stevie bashing, there's also been a lot of Mick bashing, and a lot of head-scratching about the role of the McVies. Many a Chris fan has found themselves disappointed and disillusioned about her response. And no one has denied Lindsey can be a royal pain in the arse and demanding and pouty. But there's a contingent that insists that Stevie has never been and is never any of these things. He has consistently made attempts to make amends and move forward. She has resisted.

She broke up the band with a sneaky move, and with Mick's enabling. Not Lindsey. There is clearly a lot more that may come out due to the lawsuit, and the band's very pointed response indicated they are ready for a fight. The fact that people find this interesting and are speculating on when and how that other shoe might drop and what might come out should not shock people. Yet somehow it does. If people want to ignore the fuss and put their heads down and accept whatever the band dishes out, fine.

If people don't like reading nasty comments, skip over them. It's not hard. This cuts both ways. Personal attacks from one poster to another are just not acceptable. Argue the point someone is making but don't attack the person. There has been too much of that on here for sure. But bashing a band member is not the same thing.
Well said!
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  #74  
Old 10-21-2018, 05:06 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
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Originally Posted by HejiraNYC View Post
...and your point is? Even if it is true that SN and Mick have the ultimate say in all band-related decisions, don't you think they've earned it? Mick (with John) is the band's namesake. And other than Mick and John, Stevie has the longest tenure in the band. And as much as it pains you, Stevie is the one who puts the a$$es in seats. People are generally loving the setlist for the new tour, so you can't say that Mick and SN are somehow failing miserably at putting this show together.
again, missing the point that it's not that she did it as much as HOW she did it.

Not only that she gave the band an ultimatum but that she immediately had his replacement at hand. It suggests there was a degree of forethought, like maybe she had been just waiting for the right moment to make her move and finally get this guy out of her life. (ETA: she wants it both ways-- she wants him out, but she wants him to bail her out when she gets stuck on her songs, e.g., Soldier's Angel. So maybe she doesn't want him OUT of her life, she just wants to CONTROL him. "I need to be the boss")

The thing is, she could have gotten him out of her life at any point -- by leaving FM. And, if the rest of the band had been united that they wanted Lindsey out, they could have taken their vote at any time and then just kicked him out. (they claim now this is how it works- majority rules).

So the fact they hadn't done it suggests everyone else was ok with him, or able and willing to tolerate him, until one day Stevie wasn't. And then she leveraged her ability to put bums in seats (no one disputes she has the most ability for this) to force the rest of them to kick him out. Because that's what she did. She forced them. Me, or him. Now, could they have sided with him? Sure thing. And, just because they sided with her doesn't necessarily mean they agree with her FEELINGS about him.(Chris did a whole album and tour with him. In the documentary of making that Mick is all huggy and lovey with him, as is Chris). That's the point. She played on their greed and they fell in line as she knew they would. They sold him out for a buck.

Bands have members come and go. That's FM legacy. But the down and dirty, sneaky grubby way this has played out is shameful.
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  #75  
Old 10-21-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
Drop dead. That's a joke too.
I really was kidding, Chris. I don't hate you. Even though you post too much.
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