End Of The Game 1970-1972

becca · #1 03-17-2007, 04:11 PM

Using search I don't find any discussions about this instrumental and first solo album by Green in this forum. I just got a copy of it myself so can finally hear the whole thing as intended and find it very evocative of Africa. I was ready to be disappointed based on reviews I'd read over the years on sites other than this one but I think it will grow on me if anything. I also was able to hear four 1972 Reprise singles sides also evocative of Africa which may have made for a more favorable impression. It definitely took me somewhere.

I'm curious what others think of this album and this period of Green's playing. Why you do or don't like it. I think it's very successful artistically but understand it was a commercial failure in terms of expectations at the time following Oh Well and Green Manalishi etc.

Wouter Vuijk · #2 03-17-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by becca

Using search I don't find any discussions about this instrumental and first solo album by Green in this forum. I just got a copy of it myself so can finally hear the whole thing as intended and find it very evocative of Africa. I was ready to be disappointed based on reviews I'd read over the years on sites other than this one but I think it will grow on me if anything. I also was able to hear four 1972 Reprise singles sides also evocative of Africa which may have made for a more favorable impression. It definitely took me somewhere.

I'm curious what others think of this album and this period of Green's playing. Why you do or don't like it. I think it's very successful artistically but understand it was a commercial failure in terms of expectations at the time following Oh Well and Green Manalishi etc.

I have always liked the album, from the moment it was released. I kind of compared it with Frank Zappa's "Chunga's Revenge" album.
Although it wasn't bluesy Green, it sure reflected the artists emotions. I was glad it was released later on CD as my vinyl took up a lot of scratches through the years.

doodyhead · #3 03-18-2007, 01:05 AM

I too bought it when it first came out. There was not much to compare it too. Wouter Vuijk's comparison is valid. I also thought "Bitch'e Brew " by Miles Davis. The cover bears little relation to the contents. I had read Magister Ludi by Hermann Hesse and thought perhaps that there was a linkthere with " The Glass Bead Game". It was big news that Peter had left the music business and was somehow divesting himselves of fame and fortune. His plaing is strong and unblusey. The last cut oens with such a searing barrage of notes that jar the senses. The stories of it being recorded in nine hours , then edited down to the 30 or so minutes has always led me to want to hear what was cut. Erie, compelling, unsatisfying yet enervating. I lost my vinyl copy in my divorce some 20 years ago but managed to pick up the japanese release of it a few years ago. It is so apart from anything else he did. I think that it was a period piece in that it was free improvisation in a time when there was a movement of that in music. very un mainstream.

It might have also been done just to satisfy contract obligation for annother record with a business group he had no fondness for.

has anyone ever heard the recordings done in germany during the alleged "acid session" . I have always wondered if this was like "End Of The Game"

vinnie c

Karl-Heinz · #4 03-18-2007, 03:04 AM

A master of blues and rock lost in the Hippie Daze ....

bretonbanquet · #5 03-18-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doodyhead

has anyone ever heard the recordings done in germany during the alleged "acid session" . I have always wondered if this was like "End Of The Game"

vinnie c

I don't think those tapes have ever surfaced. I read once that Jeremy Spencer had heard them and said they did sound like "The End of the Game". Maybe he can shed some light on them here if he remembers what they sounded like

monkeydevil · #6 03-19-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doodyhead

The stories of it being recorded in nine hours , then edited down to the 30 or so minutes has always led me to want to hear what was cut.

I totally agree with you! Those nine hours of music should exist in some vault somewhere.... Maybe Rhino, who released some Mac albums, could release a box set with the complete End of the Game Sessions, a nice little 8 CD set...

sharksfan2000 · #7 03-19-2007, 09:45 AM

I have to say that I've never really enjoyed The End of the Game that much. The first two tracks are OK, the playing seems the most focused on those two. I can't recall whether I've read any comments Green has had on that album, don't know what he thought of it. And from what I've read, there seems to be a lot of truth to it being a rushed recording session to satisfy a record contract too.

I believe much of the attention this album is given is just because it was his last one for such a long time, and the last album from the period (mid-'60s to early '70s) that he's best known for and that created his reputation. For people who had loved Green's blues and blues/rock playing, The End of the Game had to have been quite a shock, and I imagine it was an unpleasant shock to most of them....and not the way most of them would have wanted as a "final statement" from Green before so many years of relative silence.

I'm a fan of Pat Metheny, and I think of what the reaction to him would have been if he had stopped recording immediately after one of his "experimental" albums like Zero Tolerance for Silence or The Sign of 4. If you don't care for those albums, it's easy to just move on to the next ones that are more in line with the music Metheny is known for - it's not like one of those albums was the last one he left us with. With The End of the Game, that was not an option, not easily ignored being the "last" album from Peter Green.

dansven · #8 03-19-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharksfan2000

I can't recall whether I've read any comments Green has had on that album, don't know what he thought of it.

I have a Peter Green interview from the Swedish music magazine FUZZ from 1997, from just before the release of Robert Johnson Songbook. The whole interview is translated to Swedish..

Peter talks about The End Of The Game. The reporter says that he's joyful and laughing about the total freedom of that album. Peter also says that it would have been great to have a listen to the old tapes from that session, maybe do a few overdubs here and there, and then maybe release some more of it. Of course this was '97 and nothing has happened yet. But it was a great idea at least!!!

sharksfan2000 · #9 03-19-2007, 03:18 PM

I do remember reading a comment in Martin Celmins' book (don't think it was from Peter, I think it was from one of the other musicians at the session) that most of the best moments from the session were not included on the album.

I can imagine that Peter must have felt a great sense of freedom to do what he wanted after leaving Fleetwood Mac, but to me it seems like it was a lost opportunity that he didn't end up doing more with that freedom - of course I realize that his health problems must have played a role in what he did and didn't do in those years.

becca · #10 03-20-2007, 01:07 AM

I'm not too up on Frank Zappa at all but I can see a similarity or two to Bitches Brew by Miles Davis, but maybe more to Mahavishnu Orchestra's Birds Of Fire album wich came out after this. As a whole piece I think the album works well and has a lot of soul, before this I had only two tracks seperate from it and didn't really think so much of them. If there could be an 'End Of The Game... Naked' as it were I would be interested in hearing it, especially if Peter felt it should have been completed in a way other than how it was.

I read something that this album was inspired by a book of wildlife photos...? I wondered if the front and back photos were from this book.

Alan Olson · #11 03-20-2007, 09:34 AM

I've always enjoyed the album but I have to be in the right mood to give it a listen, a good thunder storm or a misty day with fog is perfect. Knowing that so much of the session is missing or hidden in someones collection is frustrating. Most or all of the songs are either faded in or fade out which makes me wonder where the song was going and what the entire piece would have been like. I think that it would be really great to have more of that session available.

-Al

dino · #12 03-20-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharksfan2000

I do remember reading a comment in Martin Celmins' book (don't think it was from Peter, I think it was from one of the other musicians at the session) that most of the best moments from the session were not included on the album.

I can imagine that Peter must have felt a great sense of freedom to do what he wanted after leaving Fleetwood Mac, but to me it seems like it was a lost opportunity that he didn't end up doing more with that freedom - of course I realize that his health problems must have played a role in what he did and didn't do in those years.

Yeah, the comment was from Jon Morsehead, from Aynsley Dunbar's band.
Apparently he took part in the sessions, but he surely can't be heard.
Also, Peter picked the parts where he thought the rhythm section played well,
not neccesarily the the parts on which HE played best. Typical Greeny behaviour!

Wouter Vuijk · #13 03-20-2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino

Yeah, the comment was from Jon Morsehead, from Aynsley Dunbar's band.
Apparently he took part in the sessions, but he surely can't be heard.
Also, Peter picked the parts where he thought the rhythm section played well,
not neccesarily the the parts on which HE played best. Typical Greeny behaviour!

A bit off topic, but what has John Moorshead been up to after Aynsley quit his Retaliation lineup?
I reaaly did enjoy Johns guitar playing, too me just as emotional as Greeny.

doodyhead · #14 03-21-2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wouter Vuijk

A bit off topic, but what has John Moorshead been up to after Aynsley quit his Retaliation lineup?
I reaaly did enjoy Johns guitar playing, too me just as emotional as Greeny.

I looked on a website called Musicians Olympus

It appears that he was last seen touring in 98 with....
I will return with website info as the information just floated away from me

old timers disease argh

doodyhead · #15 03-21-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wouter Vuijk

A bit off topic, but what has John Moorshead been up to after Aynsley quit his Retaliation lineup?
I reaaly did enjoy Johns guitar playing, too me just as emotional as Greeny.

I looked on a website called Musicians Olympus

It appears that http://www.fridhammar.com/xjohnmoor.html shows him with Top Topham then on tour.
I have yet another guitarist to check out more fully.

thanks Wouter

vinnie c