Lindsey discusses his firing (Rolling Stone)

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by thepoetinmyhear

I don't see any evidence to support that his objection was over the playing of ANY song. Perhaps you can point me to where I am missing that in the article. Either way - my point remains that he is still fighting the fight and expressing his argument which is odd for something that he KNOWS helped lead to his ouster. Isn't that WEIRD?

I agree with you on Irving. I don't dispute that Irving said that. If you believe that what Irving is related to have said represents the entirety of the conversation then that is your right. Seems like a very short version of what probably happened especially with as many people and representatives and promoters would have been involved.

Stevie: It's Him or Me
The band minus Lindsey: Stevie
Irving: Lindsey - stevie said it was you or her and they picked her
Lindsey: bummer

I somehow doubt, given these people (and Stevie's penchant for being wordy), that this represents the entirety of the conversation and that it's far more likely that there was a discussion about it and that there are varying degrees of how the ultimatum was issued. It may very well have been issued in the harshest tone possible. It may also have been issued in a way in which the him or me question was genuine and she was offering to leave if they (the other band members) preferred that outcome. NEITHER OF US WAS THERE and BOTH fit within the words that have been presented to us. Anything beyond that is purely opinion/conjecture on either of our parts.

"It wasn’t about it being ‘Rhiannon,’ ” he says. “It just undermined the impact of our entrance. That’s me being very specific about the right and wrong way to do something.”
That pretty much says he just didn't want a song playing at all. That song happened to be Rhiannon but he says clearly it wasn't because it was Rhiannon. Whether that's the full truth, we'll never know but that is what he says.

And I think just about everyone seems to be misinterpreting Stevie's ultimatum. It's not like she turned to Mick, John and Christine and said "him or me" and forced them to pick. It would never have played that way. Fleetwood Mac is under a machine now. I'd argue that Mick has very minimal power and Chris and John have basically none. Stevie went to the MANAGEMENT and said that. That's why Irv Azoff was the one on the phone with Lindsey. The managers and promoters are the ones who pretty much run what these people do and they're the ones who would look at that group and say 'Stevie puts butts in seats and if she leaves then we're broke so if she's really serious, then he's out'.

[thepoetinmyhear]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

"It wasn’t about it being ‘Rhiannon,’ ” he says. “It just undermined the impact of our entrance. That’s me being very specific about the right and wrong way to do something.”
That pretty much says he just didn't want a song playing at all. That song happened to be Rhiannon but he says clearly it wasn't because it was Rhiannon. Whether that's the full truth, we'll never know but that is what he says.

And I think just about everyone seems to be misinterpreting Stevie's ultimatum. It's not like she turned to Mick, John and Christine and said "him or me" and forced them to pick. It would never have played that way. Fleetwood Mac is under a machine now. I'd argue that Mick has very minimal power and Chris and John have basically none. Stevie went to the MANAGEMENT and said that. That's why Irv Azoff was the one on the phone with Lindsey. The managers and promoters are the ones who pretty much run what these people do and they're the ones who would look at that group and say 'Stevie puts butts in seats and if she leaves then we're broke so if she's really serious, then he's out'.

Thank you - I really hadn't interpreted it that way. I thought it was more like it wasn't specifically about the song rhiannon, it was about choosing a song everyone was involved with like the chain. I recognize that was a big leap in my head and your interpretation makes far more sense.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

"It wasn’t about it being ‘Rhiannon,’ ” he says. “It just undermined the impact of our entrance. That’s me being very specific about the right and wrong way to do something.”
That pretty much says he just didn't want a song playing at all. That song happened to be Rhiannon but he says clearly it wasn't because it was Rhiannon. Whether that's the full truth, we'll never know but that is what he says.

And I think just about everyone seems to be misinterpreting Stevie's ultimatum. It's not like she turned to Mick, John and Christine and said "him or me" and forced them to pick. It would never have played that way. Fleetwood Mac is under a machine now. I'd argue that Mick has very minimal power and Chris and John have basically none. Stevie went to the MANAGEMENT and said that. That's why Irv Azoff was the one on the phone with Lindsey. The managers and promoters are the ones who pretty much run what these people do and they're the ones who would look at that group and say 'Stevie puts butts in seats and if she leaves then we're broke so if she's really serious, then he's out'.

I don't disagree with you about this part. But per Mick this caused them all to have conversations about what to do going forward, and that all happened super fast. Given how Mick is, I would bet he directly talked to John at some point, and you know Mick would have talked to Stevie (or tried to get through) and they got to that point he described various times as basically deciding can we do this (without Lindsey), do we want to do this, and obviously ultimately decided yes, we can and we will. Then at some point Chris was told.....by whom we don't know. It almost sounds like the 3 in the US decided while she was in London and in her case I wouldn't be surprised if she heard through a manager (does she share the same manager as Mick?) the decision.

It raises the question of deciding on Mike ... per Mike he got a call from Mick asking him if he'd be interested just 6 days after Musicares. Lindsey heard from Azoff just 2 days after Musicares.. which means if Stevie didn't give the ultimatum to the band herself, she told Azoff pretty dam quick and he told the rest even quicker, because the ultimatum was made, the band had whatever conversations to decide who to fire, and Lindsey got told of it all within 2 days. So there wasn't really a whole lot of stressing over who to throw under the bus was there? And you just know Stevie had Mike as her backup card and then put that out there for them to debate over (she may have put conditions on staying that Mike be in or that she get to pick Lindsey's replacement or whatever.... we'll see if that ever comes out) because they didn't even audition him or meet with him, just Mick calling him within a matter of days. All very fishy and feeling premeditated.

[Sugar Mouse]

Let's assume for a moment that Lindsey is correct - that Stevie said she wouldn't stay in the band if Lindsey were there. Do you think there might be reasons for her to feel that way? Do you think Lindsey had any role in her feeling that way? Or do you really believe that Stevie simply make an ultimatum with no legitimate reasons? It seems awfully unlikely that she would push to remove the musical leader of the band putting the entire future of the band in jeopardy unless she had some legitimate reasons. Most interpersonal conflicts involve blame on both sides and almost never have one-sided blame. Food for thought.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

Let's assume for a moment that Lindsey is correct - that Stevie said she wouldn't stay in the band if Lindsey were there. Do you think there might be reasons for her to feel that way? Do you think Lindsey had any role in her feeling that way? Or do you really believe that Stevie simply make an ultimatum with no legitimate reasons? It seems awfully unlikely that she would push to remove the musical leader of the band putting the entire future of the band in jeopardy unless she had some legitimate reasons. Most interpersonal conflicts involve blame on both sides and almost never have one-sided blame. Food for thought.

I did this in my head. And while I appreciate it, what kills me is, they didn't have the guts to have a meeting and then the whole silent treatment.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

Let's assume for a moment that Lindsey is correct - that Stevie said she wouldn't stay in the band if Lindsey were there. Do you think there might be reasons for her to feel that way? Do you think Lindsey had any role in her feeling that way? Or do you really believe that Stevie simply make an ultimatum with no legitimate reasons? It seems awfully unlikely that she would push to remove the musical leader of the band putting the entire future of the band in jeopardy unless she had some legitimate reasons. Most interpersonal conflicts involve blame on both sides and almost never have one-sided blame. Food for thought.

Oh for God sake, have you not been paying attention to her behavior. Assume the worst when it comes to Lindsey and you would be correct. She has never gotten past things and it’s all about her.

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

Let's assume for a moment that Lindsey is correct - that Stevie said she wouldn't stay in the band if Lindsey were there. Do you think there might be reasons for her to feel that way? Do you think Lindsey had any role in her feeling that way? Or do you really believe that Stevie simply make an ultimatum with no legitimate reasons? It seems awfully unlikely that she would push to remove the musical leader of the band putting the entire future of the band in jeopardy unless she had some legitimate reasons. Most interpersonal conflicts involve blame on both sides and almost never have one-sided blame. Food for thought.

Of course she had reasons, or at least one reason. I would love to see a video of Lindsey's outburst over the walkout music at Musicares. If he really flew off the handle in a particularly nasty way, it might explain a lot.

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Of course she had reasons, or at least one reason. I would love to see a video of Lindsey's outburst over the walkout music at Musicares. If he really flew off the handle in a particularly nasty way, it might explain a lot.

Lol, this is Stevie Nicks. When people make posts like these and the original, I genuinely wonder if they really have paid any attention to anything Stevie Nicks has done over the past 50 years. I can 100% believe that she would indeed be that dramatic. This is a woman who bawled her eyes out over the high art that was the Twilight movies and a Katy Perry music video, who has aired out just about every grievance she's ever had, who, even the 2000s thought that her ex-boyfriend of a billion years ago who was now married with children still wasn't over her, who told that same ex-boyfriend that palm trees were gonna fall on his head and later admitted she was mostly just upset because she didn't like the album. She's a very dramatic person with an assistant that does practically everything for her. She lives in a bubble and has admitted it. I can absolutely, 100% believe that she would put out an ultimatum like that for mostly petty reasons.

Seriously, I'll never deny Lindsey being difficult but unless he was literally on the verge of blowing the band to bits, I can't find a legitimate reason to fire someone after so many years of hard work. I can't think of anything crueler.

[lovethemac1]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I cannot pretend that the heart ache falls away.

But let’s say he went psycho about Rhiannon. He may have. He is not the, “oh my goodness. I did not know there would be walk out music. Bless you,” type.

He may have pitched a fit. It is no reason to fire him. New Year’s Eve 1974. After everything that has happened and all of his contributions, the only reason I see firing him is if they discovered he took a hit out on the four of them.

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

Lol, this is Stevie Nicks. When people make posts like these and the original, I genuinely wonder if they really have paid any attention to anything Stevie Nicks has done over the past 50 years. I can 100% believe that she would indeed be that dramatic. This is a woman who bawled her eyes out over the high art that was the Twilight movies and a Katy Perry music video, who has aired out just about every grievance she's ever had, who, even the 2000s thought that her ex-boyfriend of a billion years ago who was now married with children still wasn't over her, who told that same ex-boyfriend that palm trees were gonna fall on his head and later admitted she was mostly just upset because she didn't like the album. She's a very dramatic person with an assistant that does practically everything for her. She lives in a bubble and has admitted it. I can absolutely, 100% believe that she would put out an ultimatum like that for mostly petty reasons.

Seriously, I'll never deny Lindsey being difficult but unless he was literally on the verge of blowing the band to bits, I can't find a legitimate reason to fire someone after so many years of hard work. I can't think of anything crueler.

Yep, I'd believe it if someone said he pitched a fit of epic proportions. Lindsey has always been difficult. But they all have.
Mick was drunk, stoned, spending money or all over the place.
John had his fair share of drinking issues and being unavailable.
Stevie was all over the map, drunk and stoned, and MIA.
Chris, I'm sure she wasn't a peach all the time.

And I agree, it still didn't warrant what they did to him.

[elle]

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

Lol, this is Stevie Nicks. When people make posts like these and the original, I genuinely wonder if they really have paid any attention to anything Stevie Nicks has done over the past 50 years.I can 100% believe that she would indeed be that dramatic. This is a woman who bawled her eyes out over the high art that was the Twilight movies and a Katy Perry music video, who has aired out just about every grievance she's ever had, who, even the 2000s thought that her ex-boyfriend of a billion years ago who was now married with children still wasn't over her, who told that same ex-boyfriend that palm trees were gonna fall on his head and later admitted she was mostly just upset because she didn't like the album. She's a very dramatic person with an assistant that does practically everything for her. She lives in a bubble and has admitted it. I can absolutely, 100% believe that she would put out an ultimatum like that for mostly petty reasons.

right? this is Fleetwood Mac. expecting logic and sober reasoning from them makes no sense. why do people expect logic somehow all of the sudden where there never was before?

[cbBen]

Bob Welch on Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame snub:

"The RnR hall of fame thing hurt my feelings, naturally, but I think Mick would've done that even before the lawsuit. Here's why; Mick (and John, and Chris) associate Pete Green with the high flying glory days of their youth, when FM was first breaking out in Europe. They associate Stevie and Lindsey, naturally enough, with the most glamorous, successful and exciting period in FMs' history, when FM became worldwide stars. They associate MY 5 years with the band, in contrast, with a very difficult time emotionally, which it was; losing Pete Green, having to redefine what their music would be, the Davis lawsuit etc. Even though the band survived because of what we went through in that period, it's not pleasant to think about for them,and so they DON'T think about it and pretend it doesn't exist. Of course I'm sure Stevie and Lindsey think all this b.s is pretty irrelevant, which it is, for them. Gee I'm starting to sound like Xavier Pacheco ! ;-) Stevie has always been great to me BTW... My beef with Mick, John, and Chris had absolutely nothing to do with her, or Lindsey."

I confess unfamiliarity with his period in the band, but I do think it would have only led to griping from the other excluded members had they included him.

It makes sense to me that they drew the line at the Rumors and Then Play On/Boston Tea Party lineups.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Of course she had reasons, or at least one reason. I would love to see a video of Lindsey's outburst over the walkout music at Musicares. If he really flew off the handle in a particularly nasty way, it might explain a lot.

Her only reason was Buckingham McVie. The end.

Oh, I’d also love to see so many videos of Stevie’s outbursts towards many members of the band and crew over the years, but unfortunately that’s not gonna happen

[elle]

Originally Posted by button-lip

Her only reason was Buckingham McVie. The end.

Oh, I’d also love to see so many videos of Stevie’s outbursts towards many members of the band and crew over the years, but unfortunately that’s not gonna happen

or her outbursts towards the current band members.

there's a reason Neil and Mike IG posts would never give unsuspected any clues of them actually being either members or contractors with FM.

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by button-lip

Her only reason was Buckingham McVie. The end.

What makes you think this was such a sore spot for Stevie. Did she ever intimate as much publicly (or otherwise)?

Thanks.

[elle]

Originally Posted by cbBen

What makes you think this was such a sore spot for Stevie. Did she ever intimate as much publicly (or otherwise)?

Thanks.

why would she? did she say publicly or otherwise that she pulled "him or me" on LB?