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  #16  
Old 08-05-2012, 08:46 PM
MikeInNV MikeInNV is offline
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Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3 View Post
Having been around ,already 17 and a huge fan at the time of the release of Tusk.I don't see TAM making it to number one as the first single.TAM followed Tusk and Sara both of which did make the top ten .Although a great song TAM is way more raw than any other of Chris's top 20 FM hits.It even has a bit of a punk feel to it IMHO.Consider the case of the far more sleek and polished Little Lies which also followed a Lindsey single and then Seven Wonders which only made it to numer 19.Little Lies sailed up the charts to number 4 becomng the album's biggest US. hit and tied Hold Me for the third highest charting FM single.
Yes, TAM is raw compared to LL, but the musical landscape changed a lot between 1980 and 1987. I think the sound of TAM was well-suited to the era in which it was released, just as LL was.

(Also, LL did not follow a Lindsey single. Seven Wonders was in between them.)
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  #17  
Old 08-05-2012, 09:18 PM
MacShadowsBall MacShadowsBall is offline
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Default Please don't shoot, mutilate, and/or kill me, but...

...I don't care for Tusk.


I adore all of Stevie' songs especially Sisters of the Moon and Angel. As far as a unit of songs, Stevie's Tusk songs are her "best" (subject to opinion, of course!)

Christine, who I normally love equally to Stevie, on this album her songs are just kinda there, too slow and dreary, except for Think About Me. I kinda like that song but can go without it.

Lindsey's songs on FM albums are always my least favorite. The only song of his on Tusk I kinda like is Save Me a Place. The others...oh geez!

In short, while I kinda understand fans being tired of Rumours, I don't really understand how Tusk is so well-respected. I've only been in fandom for three years, so perhaps it comes with age.
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  #18  
Old 08-05-2012, 09:29 PM
BombaySapphire3 BombaySapphire3 is offline
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Originally Posted by MikeInNV View Post

(Also, LL did not follow a Lindsey single. Seven Wonders was in between them.)
Correct..that is why in my post I stated that Little Lies followed a Lindsey single and then Seven Wonders.I was drawing a parallel between LL and TAM both followed a Lindsey and Stevie single.
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Last edited by BombaySapphire3 : 08-05-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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  #19  
Old 08-05-2012, 10:34 PM
BombaySapphire3 BombaySapphire3 is offline
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Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall View Post

In short, while I kinda understand fans being tired of Rumours, I don't really understand how Tusk is so well-respected. I've only been in fandom for three years, so perhaps it comes with age.
I guess with Tusk for those of us who love it no explanation is neccesary.For those who don't no explanation is possible.
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  #20  
Old 08-05-2012, 11:21 PM
GreenMagic GreenMagic is offline
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@Elle-

To each their own. I just never got into Dont Stop even before it became roadkill so to speak. The arrangement never worked for me. I always felt that was one of Christine's weakest songs.

Sara is a very divisive song. Other peeps I know who like the Mac either love it or hate it. I'll never forget Robert Christgau the music critic saying how he disliked Sara. But then again, his taste in music is very, very questionable. He thinks everything has to have a "Bob Dylan" lyrical deepness.

He looks more at the lyrics than the musical arrangement. For me the lyrics can be garbage as long as the arrangement salvages the song. Remember how lyrically early Beatles records were juvenile? It wasn't their lyrics in the beginning that made them special. It was the fact they were using Everly Brothers -inspired harmonies with folk chords backed by a rock beat.

Nobody at that time was really doing that. Just an example.

Anyway.

@MacShadows -

I can respect that. I think the reason Tusk alienates a lot of White Album Rumours fans is they tend to be more into classic rock like Eagles, Boston, or Skynerd.

BTW that isn't a diss just so there is no misunderstanding. Whereas if you're someone who listens to stuff like Roxy Music, Germany era of Bowie, Kraftwerk, Wire or Public Image Limited the Lindsey stuff can be appreciated more.

That is why you get so many up and coming indie bands listing Tusk as an influence as opposed to Rumours. Cause it dabbled more into new wave and some post punk areas.

I can admire the craftsmanship of the first two buckingham-nicks lineup albums. Even if I feel they pale next to Big Star or The Raspberries in terms of being Power-Pop Classics.

Again no diss intended, but I think to really appreciate Tusk, you have to really like out-there artsy kinds of music. Otherwise it can be rough going. May I suggest popping in the first two Roxy Music albums back to back then put in Tusk if you listen to music while working. It will help you understand Tusk more in that respect.
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  #21  
Old 08-06-2012, 10:48 PM
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What I love about Tusk, was how it enabled the band to transition from potentially becoming a commercial band, that needed to conform to the industries needs for more "hit albums." I know it's been said before, in numerous interviews, but I most amazed at the quality and versatility given the tremendous pressure to produce another Rumours. I think Angel is the most played song on my iPod. Storms and Beautiful Child are effortless, Sisters of the Moon is Gold Dust Woman on steroids! Stevie did an amazing job at demonstrating her impeccable versatility on this album. When I saw the Mirage tour footage, with Lindsey's performance of "Not That Funny" I felt like I finally connected to Lindsey as a musician, I felt like I was really seeing him. And I LOVED it. Save Me a Place sounds like it could have been produced in any decade since then. It's timeless! I gotta say that in comparison to Rumours; whose drama was and is still widely talked about, so much is not discussed about Tusk. And there was an enormous amount of tension and life changing situations taking place. Tusk evokes the emotions of the artists in a way that was not as literal As it was in Rumours. I have to say Rumours reeled me in, but Tusk got me
hooked!
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  #22  
Old 08-06-2012, 11:02 PM
mikephxaz mikephxaz is offline
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Originally Posted by Danigirl View Post
What I love about Tusk, was how it enabled the band to transition from potentially becoming a commercial band, that needed to conform to the industries needs for more "hit albums." I know it's been said before, in numerous interviews, but I most amazed at the quality and versatility given the tremendous pressure to produce another Rumours. I think Angel is the most played song on my iPod. Storms and Beautiful Child are effortless, Sisters of the Moon is Gold Dust Woman on steroids! Stevie did an amazing job at demonstrating her impeccable versatility on this album. When I saw the Mirage tour footage, with Lindsey's performance of "Not That Funny" I felt like I finally connected to Lindsey as a musician, I felt like I was really seeing him. And I LOVED it. Save Me a Place sounds like it could have been produced in any decade since then. It's timeless! I gotta say that in comparison to Rumours; whose drama was and is still widely talked about, so much is not discussed about Tusk. And there was an enormous amount of tension and life changing situations taking place. Tusk evokes the emotions of the artists in a way that was not as literal As it was in Rumours. I have to say Rumours reeled me in, but Tusk got me
hooked!
love these comments..I agree...fleetwood mac took the "roadless traveled" on Tusk...I find it hard to cut Lindsey a break sometimes but for this success, he is solely responsible
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  #23  
Old 08-07-2012, 09:56 AM
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elle elle is offline
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Originally Posted by mikephxaz View Post
Lindesy's over production was in full swing on SYW...what started with the songs on Tango In The Night with his "family man" obscure, over production continued on with Say You Will where Tusk represents the BEST of Lindsey's funky, honest, earthy approach to music...(which was brilliant for Stevie's songs on Tusk) I wish he could get back to that place.
thanks for responding to my query. you might be right... i think you might be also referring to possible production unevenness from song to song - b/c i don't find most of LB's songs on SYW to be overproduced (except Say Goodbye, but other than the great guitar parts that one is even worse schmaltz imo as a slowed down live version). i can't say too much about SN's SYW songs b/c i so dislike most of them that i hardly listen to them (while i love her Tusk songs)... however i hear many SN fans having gripes with arrangements and production on them, usually listing Smile At You as an example (i can see why - i think the original angry version is rocking but don't care at all for the version on SYW - whether it's LB's production fault or somebody else's decision to go with different version).

re LB getting back to more raw production - did you hear Seeds We Sow? many people say that album is underproduced (although he did do that artificially-making-voice-higher on it too).

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Originally Posted by David View Post
The martial horns riffing out the title song had the world tapping its feet and clapping along, but the dry-humping & pig-grunting of Not That Funny made people truly sorry not only that they had bought the album but also that a band that previously wrote such great hooks had lost it.
i don't know, seems most people hate NTF on Tusk (but love the pot-smoking-orgasm-faking-high-pitch-screaming 10 min Mirage tour version ). when i listen to NTF on Tusk, to me it's the pinnacle of what LB was doing there - not just punk/new wave, but i hear on his Tusk songs a lot of what became popular as world music - in singing, in accompanying instruments and sounds... you can hear a lot of folk music influences from different [mostly European i think] countries. LB used different influences, but if you think of it, using regional music influences was something that Peter Gabriel and others made huge right about that time (in the 80s i guess? may have started during late 70s, idk) but with African music influences. except using different inspiration and instruments, LB didn't work with local artists from countries he seemed to have been taking inspiration from, unlike Gabriel.

clarification: maybe "folk" is the wrong expression... what i mean by that expression in this context is endogenous music from certain regions.

Last edited by elle : 08-07-2012 at 10:19 AM.
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  #24  
Old 08-07-2012, 12:42 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
(except Say Goodbye, but other than the great guitar parts that one is even worse schmaltz imo as a slowed down live version).
Agree about the stultifying live version, especially listening to it. If you're in concert and see it, it's a little interesting to watch, because Stevie is not that comfortable and it's kind of fascinating, but just hearing the live song with nothing to engage me visually is deadly.

I like the album version much better and I actually like them "talking to each other" on the album closers. That sequencing works fine for me.

Michele
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  #25  
Old 08-07-2012, 01:33 PM
GreenMagic GreenMagic is offline
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@Danigirl - Right on! I really think Stevie was at a songwriting peak for the Mac on Tusk. Then on Mirage, with Gypsy being an awesome exception, she started sputtering.

But I think that was because of saving her best songs for the solo. I do often wonder what Stand Back would have sounded like if Lindsey produced it instead. I like the solo version dont get me wrong, but I'm curious of how far Lindsey would have taken it musically.

Leather and Lace I think would have been an awesome Lindsey and Stevie duet given their history together.

Aside from her first solo album, I'm kind of meh on Stevie's solo work till Trouble In Shangri-la. While it is a flawed album, there are some gems. I think Sheryl Crow on the tracks she produced, did a great job. And she sang wonderful harmony with Stevie. Too bad she couldn't have produced the rest of the album. Cause the weakest tracks to me are the John Shanks ones.

I do like In Your Dreams. But I've only heard it once in a sitting. So I can't give a definitive opinion. That album is a definately a grower.

Anyway in regard to NTF I listen to the musical arrangement moreso than the lyrics. I think it's awesome but to each their own. To me, the worst Lindsey song is Bwana. That's a piece of junk. That is hard for me to admit given how I love Lindsey's solo work. In fact aside from 2 or 3 songs I dont really care for Lindsey's first solo album. I do love Go Insane, Out of The Cradle, indifferent to UTS, love Gift of Screws and undecided on Seeds we sow.

I wish Lindsey get back more into adventurous music territory. I love his current stuff. But kind of feel he's treading some water musically. Would love to see him work with Brian Eno, as their production styles are very similar.
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  #26  
Old 08-07-2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Agree about the stultifying live version, especially listening to it. If you're in concert and see it, it's a little interesting to watch, because Stevie is not that comfortable and it's kind of fascinating,
I sort of really hate I missed that tour then...

Quote:
I like the album version much better and I actually like them "talking to each other" on the album closers. That sequencing works fine for me.

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  #27  
Old 08-07-2012, 02:20 PM
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For me, Tusk is the only Rumours era Mac studio album that I never need to put on the shelf for extended periods of time (Live '80 is the only live Mac recording I can't get enough of). The sheer difference in the 3 singer/songwriters, combined with the variety and scope of musical styles on this album have kept my attention and love after all these years. I don't think it was just Stevie who was at her peak on this album... it's arguable every single member of the band was at the top of their perspective mountains on Tusk (and about to plummet off the cliff into burnout territory). Stevie & Chris were recording the most beautiful and introspective songs of their careers... Lindsey was smashing the moulds of his traditional style and was laying the groundwork for his musical direction for the next 3+ decades. Mick and John were making the most entrancing rhythms of their careers (just listen to Brown Eyes!). To me, Tusk was sort of the Rumours incarnation of the Mac's swan song... they pretty much slowly & painfully self destructed over the next decade, and really never recovered. Tusk will always be their masterpiece, though.
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  #28  
Old 08-07-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louielouie2000 View Post
For me, Tusk is the only Rumours era Mac studio album that I never need to put on the shelf for extended periods of time (Live '80 is the only live Mac recording I can't get enough of). The sheer difference in the 3 singer/songwriters, combined with the variety and scope of musical styles on this album have kept my attention and love after all these years. I don't think it was just Stevie who was at her peak on this album... it's arguable every single member of the band was at the top of their perspective mountains on Tusk (and about to plummet off the cliff into burnout territory). Stevie & Chris were recording the most beautiful and introspective songs of their careers... Lindsey was smashing the moulds of his traditional style and was laying the groundwork for his musical direction for the next 3+ decades. Mick and John were making the most entrancing rhythms of their careers (just listen to Brown Eyes!). To me, Tusk was sort of the Rumours incarnation of the Mac's swan song... they pretty much slowly & painfully self destructed over the next decade, and really never recovered. Tusk will always be their masterpiece, though.
Maybe it's just me, but I think Tusk was a bit of a happy accident... borne of extreme burnout and weariness as opposed to some orchestrated masterpiece by musicians who were at the top of their game. I love it because it is deeply flawed and because the songs are as uneven as they are intimate and revealing. Sure, Lindsey has gone on record to say that the sonic template for the record was a response to the new wave/punk sounds of the time, but I can't help but wonder whether the rough edges were there because people just couldn't be bothered to fix them up into something conventionally pretty. I have a feeling that the Stevie of today would demand remixes and removal of all of the random little noises that are scattered throughout the album. But in 1978/79, she was still the forgotten stepchild in the band who was too busy plotting her solo career to take a stand. If the rest of the band truly cared about the direction of Tusk, wouldn't they have fought to wrest control from Lindsey? In the end they didn't fight him and Lindsey was allowed to run amuck, doing what pleased himself above anything else. Accordingly, the instrumental tracks are relatively loose and meandering- almost as if they couldn't be bothered to play or record with the deliberate precision of every single note on Rumours. In fact, in many cases, they didn't even bother to play at all. While evergreen inspiration is often wonderful, the lack of inspiration can also be a thing of tragic beauty as well.

Ultimately I think Tusk would have failed as a single album- just like The Lord of the Rings would have failed as a half-hour sitcom. The sheer breadth and length of Tusk wears you down, and it envelopes you and takes you into their blurry-eyed, hung over, occasionally intense world. The miraculous beauty of Tusk is a fragile one, and any misstep could have thrown off the balance and rendered it unlistenable.
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  #29  
Old 08-07-2012, 04:28 PM
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It's not. She was McVie by then.





Sorry... couldn't resist. A more sensible comment/review etc will follow!
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  #30  
Old 08-07-2012, 07:12 PM
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Tusk is the best album ever recorded by anyone.


It breathes 5 and maybe even 6 decennia of popmusic, it's as much inspired by the sixties and seventies as it is by punk and new wave. It throws it's shadow over the alt singersongwriters of the nineties and 00's too. contemporary bands like Tame Impala are directly influenced by it and I'm pretty sure there's more to come in the next eight years.

People who are irritated when something is deliberately brought as an artistic, alternative product will never agree with me. So be it. It's THE album that bonds the popworld with the alternative world.

And therefore...

Tusk is the best album ever recorded by anyone.
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