Lindsey is sooooo serious (SN q&a clip)

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

And then of course, you can't discount the other musicians - John, Mick, and Chris in FM and Stevie's own solo band. I believe they all pretty much come/came up with their own parts after listening to the demos and being told what the feel is and everything.

Oh yes, like Christine's intro to Silver Springs. Michele

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by Lindsfan

Thanks for reminding me How did I neglect to mention that??!!

She does talk out of both sides. You got that right! But again, what else is new? Anyways, I think the quote was he was taking lyrics pills though wasn't it? Which is another gripe of mine. In fact, I meant to ask him about that in a meet and greet. Her implying he's not much of a lyrics writer, at least until SWS, bothers me to no end. But of course, he's no better. He's often said he doesn't think much of his own lyrics eihter They're both wrong. He's a brilliant lyricist. Has been for a long time.

And that last comment is a major understatement. I'd say several steps.

Most of her quotes she just mentioned melody pills but I did find the Perez Hilton quote about SWS: "But it's my favorite thing he's ever done. I think it's brilliant. I think he took some serious melody pills and lyric pills and he came up with a beautiful, beautiful album."

Originally Posted by elle

i'm possibly reading way too much into it, but like Lindsfan, this jumped out at me as really annoying when i was listening to the interview. plus i think she repeated it couple of times (maybe during convo and then after movie q&a), as to drive home a point that LB contributed to her songs nothing more than just a chord here and there and producing them.

Landslide and Gypsy or Rhiannon are great examples - the guitar melodies and chords in these songs are so distinctive. did Stevie come up with any of those? start of Rhiannon? or Lindsey did change them, after all? LB never received any co-credit; that was just extra chord, arranging, or producing. he contributed nothing more. unlike Dave who has co-writing / music credit for most of the IYD songs.

that said, i do think Dave wrote much more music for her IYD songs than Lindsey did for her older songs. it seems she had no melody to start with for most of those IYD songs co-credited to Dave.

I think the Lindsey sensitivity is a little blinding, and understandably so. Stevie gets tripped up on herself sometimes. She really isn't insulting Lindsey's work on her songs, but she digs herself a hole and doesn't know how to get out of it. She would be stupid to say she hated his work on all of her hits. And, time and time again she has praised his work and said he could take her stuff and do what she couldn't do for herself. "When I see you doing what I try to do for me..."

And, not to start argument -- but give her some credit. Both she and Lindsey have said she has the melody and basic song structure down when she gives it to him. The Rhiannon "riff" -- her piano version has that in it, it's just not a "riff". I think it's interesting though to hear their explanation. Lindsey said his tendency was just to "add rhythm and rock it up".

See their explanation here at :43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4hp3...hannel&list=UL

You're right about Dave though. And, he isn't credited on every song on IYD. The fact is, he is not credited at all on the songs she already had on demo (Secret Love, Moonlight, Annabel Lee, Soldier's Angel) and the two songs she wrote with guitar tracks from Mike Campbell and Neale Heywood. Waddy is also credited on Annabel Lee so he must have worked on the original song they tried to track in the 90's. For all the other songs, Dave took poems she had and put music and then told her to sing. So, he did write the music and she had no preconceived notions about the melody or anything else. And, that is what has been different about this process for her and how she has been used to doing things all of career. She wrote the songs and then trusted Lindsey to make it into something you would listen to.

"Lindsey pretty much, and the band, would take my skeletal songs…. and…. work them out… with me listening, to make sure that I liked them…. Umm… and- and do them pretty much on their own, and the only time that I would stop them is if I- if they did something to one of my songs that I really didn’t like… which happened very seldom."

Originally Posted by elle

i think i read somewhere not long ago LB came up with Rhiannon riff / progression, i believe it was said by someone from FM, or maybe it was Gary Hodges? (but i might be wrong).

no idea about Landslide. maybe watching that video on youtube where Lindsey teaches how to play Lanslide, Big Love and something else would clarify it. he starts by saying "Landslide is a song that Stevie wrote" but don't remember whether he talks about what exactly he added to it, it's very possible he does.

Stevie wrote Landslide on the guitar in Aspen alone by herself when everyone else had gone out.

I think if Lindsey thought he needed to be given writer's credit, he would argue that point. (He may lose, but he would argue it. lol)

[elle]

^see, to my ears that Rhiannon progression she sings in Don't Stop doc clip is nothing like what he plays right after. probably just me.

Originally Posted by CADreaming

She would be stupid to say she hated his work on all of her hits. And, time and time again she has praised his work and said he could take her stuff and do what she couldn't do for herself.

completely agree, she used to say all the time how he'd take her rudimentary songs and make them pretty, make them into a real song. that's why what she was saying the other day was so odd to some of us - b/c it sounded almost the opposite from those past statements. she repeated several times how she would never allow him to change her songs, how he just added a little chord here and there, etc... like she was trying to minimize his contributions. like other stevie-speak, maybe that's not what she meant to say, but it was just odd.

Originally Posted by CADreaming

I think if Lindsey thought he needed to be given writer's credit, he would argue that point.

i will repeat what i always say - i don't really care what Lindsey thinks... what i'm stating are my opinions on these things.

plus, Lindsey and her have all the baggage, while her and DS have a clean slate. maybe if LB did as much work on her songs now as he did in the past, he would want a co-credit these days? similarly as he never got co-producer credit on Rumours, but he did on Tusk.

and awwwww:

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by elle

^see, to my ears that Rhiannon progression she sings in Don't Stop doc clip is nothing like what he plays right after. probably just me.

You're right -- it's just you!

she repeated several times how she would never allow him to change her songs, how he just added a little chord here and there, etc... like she was trying to minimize his contributions. like other stevie-speak, maybe that's not what she meant to say, but it was just odd.

See, I hear what she was saying as, don't change the "heart & soul of the song" -- not don't do what you do and have always done. I think what she didn't add to her comments is this - if it starts to go that way she does say. But, she doesn't like to say because she feels like she is hurting his feelings and being a "beyotch", as she put it.

i will repeat what i always say - i don't really care what Lindsey thinks... what i'm stating are my opinions on these things.

plus, Lindsey and her have all the baggage, while her and DS have a clean slate. maybe if LB did as much work on her songs now as he did in the past, he would want a co-credit these days? similarly as he never got co-producer credit on Rumours, but he did on Tusk.

LOL about not caring what Lindsey thinks!!!

Idk if he would seek credit now. Stevie even said he really produced SA and he is not credited. He probably doesn't care a whole lot, really. He may throw all these bones her way because he has a guilt complex over .... something. And, she's probably just fine accepting payment for his penance.

[elle]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

He may throw all these bones her way because he has a guilt complex over .... something. And, she's probably just fine accepting payment for his penance.

a-ha, completely agree with you there!

PS i was waiting for SA reference... but there he took away music, almost, not added it

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by elle

a-ha, completely agree with you there!

PS i was waiting for SA reference... but there he took away music, almost, not added it

Genius!!!

Originally Posted by Lindsfan

And that last comment is a major understatement. I'd say several steps.

I wanted to comment on this. You're totally right. I felt she was trying to be diplomatic because she was also saying she was ticked at what they did. But, she felt they were friends, so she's giving generous compliments to soothe the sting of her not being happy with them. Not that she sincerely would rank Nancy Wilson as great as Lindsey - or even that close. I bet if she listed her top 10 favorite guitarists Nancy wouldn't make the cut.

[KindOfWoman90]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think plenty of people worked together while hating each other. But it's pretty clear in my mind that Stevie and Lindsey love each other. I don't see what they do to (say about) each other as anything more than relatives (who loved each other) would do to each other. Doesn't mean it doesn't annoy me as an FM watcher. It still does very much, but not at all because I think they don't all care about each other.

Michele

Not to beat a dead horse, but you put this so beautifully! Exactly!

You know, a point that I didn't see touched upon, in this thread or the one about the Q&A on Stevie's board, was how a therapist told her that in some ways the day she joined Fleetwood Mac was the saddest day of her life, or something to that effect, that she liked taking care of people. That role was taken from her. The way she put it made me feel very sad for her. She may come across as a bit bitter to some or unnecessarily harsh at times, but personally, I think a lot of that is just a facade, a defense mechanism. I always feel she's trying to protect herself when she speaks in a glib, harsh manner about Lindsey.

[darkcat]

Originally Posted by elle

yeah, audience LOVED and cheered the hating-lindsey line!

but in all fairness, it was similar in 92Y when interviewer asked Lindsey about reactions to him coming into studio and saying "here's my new song - go your own way" and Lindsey added "you bi*ch" - audience loved that one too!

I think people just love to hear anything about the interaction between the two of them, regardless of what it is. I know I do

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by Nico

Lies, fairy tales, fallacies...Lindsey is serious, but he can be quite funny as well. I mean, look at the rapport he had with Brett on his past tours! And as far as no one adoring him, I'm done. I don't think I even need to acknowledge such ridiculousness.

Originally Posted by WeepingWall

Wow, what an incredibly annoying interview! She seems like she is living in a make-believe tabloid-ready world. I love Stevie, but some of the stuff she is saying is just so crazy. It is really obnoxious.

Oh, right. Someone who has known and worked with Lindsey for almost 50 years simply does not know a thing about him. And what we see on a concert stage is total reality because, you know, it's not, like a show or anything like that.

Originally Posted by Nico

Thank you Lindsfan, luv. I am livid over this particular comment because everyone is always dragging LB through the mud. If it isn't one of his ex-girlfriends it's Ken Caillat or some other Joe. I really would like to say that a man can be serious and also have a fantastic sense of humor.

I think a single isolated account is one thing, but after hearing similar things about Lindsey from multiple sources, a more tangible image emerges- of a man who can be intensely finicky about his work and is prone to occasional acts of rage (allegedly). This is quite different from saying that he is not a talented musician and producer (which Stevie did not allege at all in these interviews). What we see of Lindsey (and pretty much any other figure in public life), can be a very, very different aspect of his persona than what he shows to the people in his personal life. You can choose to discredit one person's account of his personal conduct. But it gets increasingly more difficult to do that upon repeated confirmation about these same personality issues.

Originally Posted by WildHearted

But regarding the Bob Dylan debacle - it seems petty to keep bringing it up since it seems like such a random insignificant little thing... but sometimes it's the little stuff that hurts your feelings and that you remember. It must have really bothered her, although as an outsider watching it's clear Lindsey was trying to be careful about how he approached it.

I agree that the inclusion of this particular Destiny Rules clip came across as a bit of a slam in a "Lindsey is a controlling douche" kinda way. But I think it was necessary to help underscore the point she was trying to make, which was that, as a songwriter and musician, Stevie refuses to follow any rules, and that Dave was able to appreciate this and to work with what she brought to the table. By contrast, Lindsey was trying (in the most passive and circuitous way possible) to enforce his rules about songwriting onto her, hence the flashback to the DR documentary. Yes, Lindsey gets thrown under the bus, but it helps the viewer to understand Dave and Stevie's working relationship that much better.

Originally Posted by shackin'up

I love that interviewclip. She's witty and loose. Very much in shape too. And still someone who had Fame as a goal. And there, for me, is the major differente with her ex. Who had Fame as a goal too, but right after gaining it, he went for pure artistic values. They have à Very different view at the World.

Yes... the kind of artistic values that lead to scoring soundtracks for National Lampoon movies and Twizzlers Licorice commercials. And take these lyrics from "Not Too Late":

So that's been a problem
Feeling unheard
So-called visions
Always deferred
It must be the reason
I developed this need
You know you should never
Believe what you read

What am I doing anyway?
Telling myself it's not too late

No, that doesn't sound like someone who is bitter because he is not ultra famous.

Originally Posted by Lindsfan

I just suffered through the whole hour long video and she bashes him beginning to end.

She said at least she didn't HATE Dave (as opposed to Lindsey)

Lie. She never said that she hated Lindsey.

She said she didn't want to tell Lindsey what he was doing was stupid.

Lie. She basnever mentioned him by name.

She said Dave (as opposed to Lindsey) understands women because he has two daughters (same thing she said ABOUT Lindsey just a few years ago).

Lie. She never said anything about Lindsey in this context.

She said she told Lindsey he could add a few chords here and there but nothing else! Are you kidding me?! Let's take Lindsey's parts out of Gold Dust Woman, Gypsy, Dreams, Landslide, etc. No riffs. No counter-melodies. No harmonies that he comes up with. Um, he's done more with her songs than add a few chords

She was referring to the lyrics. She said that he can do his thing with the music, but don't change the song. What's wrong with saying that? And how do you know that Lindsey came up with all of the harmonies and riffs? If he was really as "instrumental" to the fabrication of these songs as you think he was, he would have gotten a songwriting credit. Adding a riff or an extra chord or a guitar solo or a harmony does not constitute "songwriting."

Originally Posted by Nico

Are you serious? All of this? Ok, I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt but now I understand how you feel. Honestly Stevie. Look at your life, look at your choices. Why does she have to throw shade on Lindsey? Why can't she talk about her business and mention Linds where need be but why continually drag him through the mud, over and over? That's wrong.

Um... maybe because Lindsey has been the most important and significant person in her life outside of her family. If she is before a paying audience talking about her music and her life, it would seem rather odd for her to omit any reference to Lindsey. That is really unreasonable.

If the shoe were on the other foot, he wouldn't do it. Lindsey has always been classy in this way.

Yes, calling Stevie a "b*tch," even in jest, is really classy.

He may feel anger and resentment of his own, but he doesn't need to publicly berate others for his own benefit. I really am disappoint. Thank you for the clarification...I didn't get to see the hour-long video and I don't have a desire to.

It's obvious that you didn't watch the video because all of your assertions are way, way off-base.

Originally Posted by elle

yes. he sounds much classier re not airing any private spats in his public appearances.

What makes Stevie an infinitely more interesting interview subject than Lindsey is that she does not seem to hesitate to speak her mind, even if some of her opinions are somewhat blunt and ascerbic. Accordingly, I get the sense that I know her better as a person, which helps me to appreciate her lyrics even more. By contrast, Lindsey is oblique in interviews. Whenever I see him interviewed, I always get the sense that I am hearing a canned response that has been rehearsed and memorized in his mind. I can practically see the cogs ticking around. And when he does get a question that requires some thought, I see him struggling a bit to find the right wording to formulate a response that is more diplomatic than revealing. Yeah, I guess that makes him seem like an upstanding, nice guy. But to me that's boring. Why even bother getting interviewed if you are only going to reveal yourself through a frosted lens?

Originally Posted by elle

of course, Lindsey seems to have much more settled and satisfying current life, so less reasons to be bitter.

I'm not sure how/why you have drawn that conclusion. From the looks of things, Stevie is in a wonderful place in her life. She is on a creatively satisfying and enjoyable arc with her music. She has wonderful homes, a perennially successful career, a loving family and her various charitable causes. I think anybody would trade places with her!

Originally Posted by elle

i think i read somewhere not long ago LB came up with Rhiannon riff / progression, i believe it was said by someone from FM, or maybe it was Gary Hodges? (but i might be wrong).

no idea about Landslide. maybe watching that video on youtube where Lindsey teaches how to play Lanslide, Big Love and something else would clarify it. he starts by saying "Landslide is a song that Stevie wrote" but don't remember whether he talks about what exactly he added to it, it's very possible he does.

For one thing, I think the "riff" you mention for "Rhiannon" is not really a "riff" IMHO. It's merely Lindsey playing the chords on guitar instead of the chords on piano (like Stevie's demo). I do think it is unlikely that Stevie came up with the guitar part for "Landslide" note-for-note, but I do believe that she probably came up with the melody and the basic chord structure herself. Lindsey wrote his own music arrangement on guitar, but that in itself does not mean he should get songwriting credit.

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Genius!!!

I wanted to comment on this. You're totally right. I felt she was trying to be diplomatic because she was also saying she was ticked at what they did. But, she felt they were friends, so she's giving generous compliments to soothe the sting of her not being happy with them. Not that she sincerely would rank Nancy Wilson as great as Lindsey - or even that close. I bet if she listed her top 10 favorite guitarists Nancy wouldn't make the cut.

I think it's safe to say that both of the Wilson sisters are currently on her sh*t list. I don't think Nancy is a bad guitarist, but even among female guitarists, I don't think she's that impressive. Joni Mitchell is/was far superior.

[michelej1]

Oh, Hejira NYC who can go point by point, but just on the homes you mentioned: you know how lonely Stevie said the house felt. In fact, it probably got more of a work out when she recorded in it than it has ever had since she purchased it.

When she first toured it as a prospective buyer, she fell in love with it because it had been owned by a family. She felt their activity and spirit inside. Then, when she purchased it and moved in herself, she felt the loss of that family life. She realized that what she loved was the family atmosphere, rather than the house itself. So, that's why she spent most of the time in her condo instead. I think that anecdote is a metaphor for so much that she feels.

Michele

[Lori40]

Did everyone forget that there's going to be an FM tour next year? They have no new album to promote, so they have to generate some kind of interest in the band. What does everyone love about FM, aside from their music?

"...Only creatures who are on their way
Ever poison their own well
But we still have time to hate
And there's still something we can sell..."

[elle]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Oh, right.

hi HejiraNYC!

i'm happy to see you are still as fierce in defending The Chiffon Queen as many people here are in defending The Buck!!

sorry you had to step out of the chiffon cloud you've been enveloped in for the last 2 days and see all this!


oh - you know that songwriter that SN has to hate because she has a lot of past baggage with him? the one that's not LB? i'm sure that guy, when he wrote some song for the rumours album and brought it into the studio saying it is called go your own way (you bi*ch)... i'm sure he must have meant someone like KC maybe? definitely not SN - pure lie that "bi*ch" term was meant for her - because he never said that it was! (after all, didn't he say Paul Simon was his bi*ch on SNL?).

[CADreaming]

^Probably the same guy she doesn't want to say what's he was doing was stupid because she loves him too...

[KindOfWoman90]

Originally Posted by elle

oh - you know that songwriter that SN has to hate because she has a lot of past baggage with him? the one that's not LB? i'm sure that guy, when he wrote some song for the rumours album and brought it into the studio saying it is called go your own way (you bi*ch)... i'm sure he must have meant someone like KC maybe?

hehe that bit made me literally lol

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by elle

hi HejiraNYC!

i'm happy to see you are still as fierce in defending The Chiffon Queen as many people here are in defending The Buck!!

sorry you had to step out of the chiffon cloud you've been enveloped in for the last 2 days and see all this!


oh - you know that songwriter that SN has to hate because she has a lot of past baggage with him? the one that's not LB? i'm sure that guy, when he wrote some song for the rumours album and brought it into the studio saying it is called go your own way (you bi*ch)... i'm sure he must have meant someone like KC maybe? definitely not SN - pure lie that "bi*ch" term was meant for her - because he never said that it was! (after all, didn't he say Paul Simon was his bi*ch on SNL?).

If there is one thing I would have to say about chiffonheads, at least their perceptions are somewhat rooted in reality and fact. This thread has been nothing but wild accusations and inferences that are based on nothing she said. I find it hilarious that people here think they know Lindsey as a person better than Stevie. How can one say she is lying when nobody outside of Lindsey's personal world really knows the truth? The anti-Stevie animus here is just astounding. What did she ever do to you? She speaks her truth, and I suppose the truth can be difficult to accept. And why do people who really do not know Stevie as a musician automatically discredit any possibility that she could have composed her classic songs all by herself? Not only is this thinking irrational, it strikes me as being thinly-veiled sexism.

At the end of the day, you can either believe what she says about Lindsey or you can simply disregard it. But she has a right to say it just like Lindsey has the right to defend himself. I have no reason not to believe her. Also, I happen to agree with Stevie that Lindsey deserved a brutal verbal beatdown for his condescending lecture about songwriting. And I am glad that she included that scene in the IYD documentary. The contrast between making SYW and IYD is really like night and day.