Could SAY YOU WILL be IT???? - Page 4

ERigby818 · #46 01-31-2003, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugar
I for one enjoy the debate that happens on this board. I LIKE knowing that there are other fans who don't think every FM song is the greatest song ever written

Me too.

Quote:

and that Mick seems to do anything for a buck (I particularly liked Tracy's comment on burnish.com about not wanting him to have her credit card number! ) If I wanted to be on a board of syncophants, I could join the Stepford Fans over on Mick's board. Am I the only one who finds it creepy over there?

OMG, You are not alone. I definitely find it a little creepy over there.

Quote:

And, HELLO, am I the only one who knows that "Reconsider Me"wasn't even written by Stevie?

LOL!!!!

Sugar, I also appreciate your other comments about not letting people offend you and your point is well taken. Thanks

And... I LOVE Welcome To The Room...Sara but I really don't care for When I See You Again.

-Sonia

Cristian · #47 01-31-2003, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chiliD
(or is it McCartney/Lennon?)

Oh no. Not that again.

A couple of things about this thread:

- It was a really fun thing to read.
- Discussions, even though they can be heated and everything, are helpful. Because they help us to grow up as a person.
- I happen to be in the "neutral" territory here, because I'm a Christine fan... but I really enjoy the fact that both sides can give strong arguments in favour of their respective favorites. Everyone has made interesting points so far.
- Yes, "Family Man" happens to be my least favorite song ever, I just can't stand the blessed thing, it is an embarassing attempt of writing something meaningful.

Song of the moment - Docklands

BlueGrass · #48 01-31-2003, 03:33 PM

What's wrong with "Family Man"?! The guitar work is great, I know Lindsey really wasn't a 'family man', but I still like the song s one of my favs on TITN.

sara1998 · #49 01-31-2003, 03:52 PM

The guitar is brilliant!! No arguement there. But the lyrics?? C'mon!!

Walk down this road/and the road is rough/ I fall down/I get up
I am what I am/ A family Man/Mother/father/brother

Wheres the songwriting brilliance?? What the hell is that all about??

Just curious....

Maria

CarneVaca · #50 01-31-2003, 04:04 PM

There is truth and beauty in simplicity.

SmthngOfADreamr · #51 01-31-2003, 04:12 PM

I'm not a native English speaker, and in fact up until a few years ago I didn't know any English at all. And I hate to say it, but Family Man is one of those songs that makes me wish I still didn't understand the language. I love the sound of the song, but the lyrics are too distractingly awful IMO and I think it takes away from the great melody/guitar. I think it's still not as bad as When I See You Again though, which would still be bad even if I still didn't understand English.

sara1998 · #52 01-31-2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
There is truth and beauty in simplicity.

Can't explain that one, huh??

seteca · #53 01-31-2003, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sara1998
Can't explain that one, huh??

Actually I think that's a perfectly reasonable explanation.

"There's something, and maybe I learnt this from Syd [Barrett], there's something about [the very simple lyrics to the songs on the album], which is so simplistic and so purile that it would be very easy to write it down on a piece of paper and then immediately scribble it up and throw it into the bin because you'll be laughed at, and maybe I learnt from Syd that it's really important that you don't throw that stuff in the bin, that you keep it...that that almost childish expression of feeling is the important bit, and all the embellishment that goes on around it, is secondary to that."

That's a quote from Roger Waters, talking about the lyrics to Pink Floyd's most critcially and commercially successful album, Dark Side Of The Moon.

Lindsey has shown us well that if he needs to use deep and thought-provoking lyrics to express his feelings, he can. He obviously thought that the simple lyrics of Family Man are what were necessary to get his feelings across. Why open a thesaurus and attempt to paraphrase your own lyrics when what you really mean is perfectly defined by what you have written? Family Man doesn't have to make sense to anybody apart from Lindsey. If anybody else relates to the lyrics, that a compliment to the writer, but nothing more, and shouldn't be automatically expected.

Quote:

Originally posted by tommer
could you please use your skillful lyrics dissection methods to help me with the likes of Family Man or Big Love? thanks.

The lyrics to Big Love are, in my opinion some of the most powerful lyrics of love (or rather the unbearable pain of lost love) ever written. I can personally relate to them in a major way, and I also know many other people who do, and who would agree with me. I find it very strange that you chose to use that as an example of a song which has "lack of meaning", but that's your opinion and I totally respect that.

I understand it perfectly, both from my own point of view and also from Lindsey's if I empathise with him when he wrote it in 1986/1987. I could start writing out a lengthy interpretation of it for you, but this has already been done very well in the Penguin's "Interpretations" section.

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/.../b/biglove.htm

CarneVaca · #54 01-31-2003, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sara1998
Can't explain that one, huh??

I did: There is truth and beauty in simplicity. And there's no ambiguity in that statement.

Sarah · #55 01-31-2003, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I don't get it. If they're going to whore the songs...

LOL.. whore out the songs. lol. that was so funny.

I thought the song sounded ok (except that it was on a retarded TV promo).. but stevie's gone back to doin the whole.. REALLY DEEP VOICE thing again. i'm not so sure i like that a whole lot. but i'll take it.

quick question for you.. why do you hate stevie so badly?

Sarah

wondergirl9847 · #56 01-31-2003, 09:38 PM

I agree that simplicity is effective...and I love Family Man too...I love the guitar and I really don't see why you have to use big words to get your point across.

I mean, poets come in ALL variations...you have those kind of poets that write stuff you CANNOT understand and have to have explained to you

, you have the poets who write so ambiguously, that you can draw your own conclusions as to what the poem is about and there are poets who write simply but powerfully. It's all good!! I have written lots of poetry over the years, and going back to read it, some of it is, crap, some are really deep and some are simple yet touching. I respect anyone who writes from their heart and that is what Lindsey AND Stevie (and everyone in FM, IMO) do...

Bare Trees is a simple song....

Bare trees, grey light, oh yeah, it was a cold night,
Bare trees, grey light...

Do those lyrics make the song any less great than Gold Dust Woman...

Rock on, gold dust woman, take your silver spoon and dig your grave...

Not in my opinion, I love them BOTH to death!! It's not just about the lyrics, IMO, the rhythm of the song is MUY IMPORTANTE to me in selecting a song to listen to. Lyrics are pretty much secondary to me. I truly do believe that playing a certain instrument and making certain sounds with it can speak volumes more than lyrics sometimes. Some people can't understand why I love ISA so much, well, that guitar solo is AMAZING and to my ears (and soul), it's like someone comforting you with a hug. It's hard to explain in words, but whatever everyone's favorite song is, you understand what I mean. It's on a TOTALLY supernatural level....BTW, I'm listening to Soul Drifter right now...and this song will be played at my funeral....

CarneVaca · #57 01-31-2003, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarah

quick question for you.. why do you hate stevie so badly?

I really don't. It distresses me as a fan that I know she can write better but she does not seem to have enough self-discipline to edit her songs as she should. As an example, you're probably familiar with the stories about her songs being way too long. Sara and Silver Springs come to mind as tracks that had to be pared down to a reasonable length. I know I've criticized her voice too as of late, but I wouldn't mind it as much if she wrote lyrics that, in my opinion, were better. To be sure, her voice on most of The Dance songs sounds pretty damn good.

Sarah · #58 01-31-2003, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I really don't. It distresses me as a fan that I know she can write better but she does not seem to have enough self-discipline to edit her songs as she should. As an example, you're probably familiar with the stories about her songs being way too long. Sara and Silver Springs come to mind as tracks that had to be pared down to a reasonable length. I know I've criticized her voice too as of late, but I wouldn't mind it as much if she wrote lyrics that, in my opinion, were better. To be sure, her voice on most of The Dance songs sounds pretty damn good.

imo, she sounded BETTER on the dance than in the past.. absolutely beautiful. very fine, indeed. but on the say you will clip.. she was sounding very low. maybe it was just that part of the song.. but i agree with you on the dance. stevie was sounding very fine at that point. very clear.

i'm not familiar with the original length of silver springs.. i've heard the long versions of sara (unrealistically long.. understandable to write that long for yourself as a hobby.. but for use on an album?? uh uh.).. whats the deal with SS? how long was it originally?

Sarah

sara1998 · #59 01-31-2003, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seteca

Lindsey has shown us well that if he needs to use deep and thought-provoking lyrics to express his feelings, he can. He obviously thought that the simple lyrics of Family Man are what were necessary to get his feelings across. Why open a thesaurus and attempt to paraphrase your own lyrics when what you really mean is perfectly defined by what you have written? Family Man doesn't have to make sense to anybody apart from Lindsey. If anybody else relates to the lyrics, that a compliment to the writer, but nothing more, and shouldn't be automatically expected.

Stevies lyrics don't need to make sense to anybody apart from Stevie. I've gotten my point across. While some don't agree with Stevie's style of writing, I particually don't care for Lindseys. But I would never bash him because of it. It's all in your own personal taste, and Stevie shouldn't get bashed because of her own personal writing style.

By CarneVaca:[QUOTE]I've been with you before/I'll be with you again/I'll come back for more, yea/The story has a strange ending [Candlebright]

This is like explaining the punchline to a joke. Don’t tell me it’s a strange ending. Describe the ending and let me decide if it was strange. If it was, and I reach that conclusion, you’ve done the job effectively as a writer.[QUOTE]

If Stevie dosen't want to explain the strange ending, she don't have to. It's her story.

Maria

seteca · #60 02-01-2003, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sara1998
Stevies lyrics don't need to make sense to anybody apart from Stevie. I've gotten my point across. While some don't agree with Stevie's style of writing, I particually don't care for Lindseys. But I would never bash him because of it. It's all in your own personal taste, and Stevie shouldn't get bashed because of her own personal writing style.

Yes, you're absolutely right, what I said applies to Stevie just as much as it does to Lindsey and ANY OTHER song writer: all that matters is that it makes sense to the writer. Anything that happens after that, such as people relating to the song, fans interpreting the song, people criticizing the music/lyrics are all optional extras. And no Stevie should definitely not "get bashed" because of her own personal writing style, and neither should any writer, but personally I see all of CarneVaca's thoughts regarding Stevie's writing style as strong constructive criticism (as I do your comments regarding Lindsey's) rather than "bashing" - besides, it's always nice to have a good debate. My post was not in any way intended to mean "Lindsey can get away with writing simple lyrics and Stevie can't" (in fact, it had absolutely NOTHING to do with Stevie, I didn't even mention her name, and on the whole I like all of her songs, although I'm not a fan of hers as I am of Lindsey's) but was in response to this

Quote:

Originally posted by sara1998
But the lyrics?? C'mon!!

Walk down this road/and the road is rough/ I fall down/I get up
I am what I am/ A family Man/Mother/father/brother

Wheres the songwriting brilliance?? What the hell is that all about??

...So my point is that that just because a song doesn't make sense to you/anybody else, it doesn't mean that it isn't "brilliant" to the writer/others - a point that we both just re-iterated - you with respect to Stevie, and me with respect to Lindsey. Therefore, perhaps you wrote that just to annoy CarneVaca knowing that he is a Lindsey fan, but he's not the only one, and as a big fan of "Family Man" and pretty much all of Lindsey's lyrics, I answered your question.