Ken Caillat's comments

[aleuzzi]

Yes, Christine has said things about "lezzies" and "poofters" in a few places--the former in a People magazine article from 1976!

Bob Welch has said she was downright sarcastic and that this could be quite funny and amusing--if you were on the right side of it. But remember too that Bob Weston felt she, as well as the other Brits in the band, had become "impossible" with their newfound success. I imagine Christine calmed down once she stopped using cocaine and once the mega-success of the band had run its course (around 1988). Most of her sidemen insist she is great to work with and very down to earth.

I interpret her caustic, even rude comments as a manifestation of some insecurity--of which I suspect she has many. But then I don't know her personally, so who knows? She once complained that she worked with "bitchy" people in that department store before Stan Webb rescued her. Perhaps she was projecting? Perhaps she has always been one of those "bitchy" people herself?

Oh, and she is NOT one to talk about bad fashion choices.

[golddustdrummer]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Yes, Christine has said things about "lezzies" and "poofters" in a few places--the former in a People magazine article from 1976!

Bob Welch has said she was downright sarcastic and that this could be quite funny and amusing--if you were on the right side of it. But remember too that Bob Weston felt she, as well as the other Brits in the band, had become "impossible" with their newfound success. I imagine Christine calmed down once she stopped using cocaine and once the mega-success of the band had run its course (around 1988). Most of her sidemen insist she is great to work with and very down to earth.

I interpret her caustic, even rude comments as a manifestation of some insecurity--of which I suspect she has many. But then I don't know her personally, so who knows? She once complained that she worked with "bitchy" people in that department store before Stan Webb rescued her. Perhaps she was projecting? Perhaps she has always been one of those "bitchy" people herself?

Oh, and she is NOT one to talk about bad fashion choices.

maybe she was just overly sarcastic....maybe she was just kidding and was able to keep a straight face. If I had a nickel for every time I called someone a derogatory name in a kidding manner...I'd be rich. Or maybe she was just an uber bitch. Either way, I still love her! I just can't help it

[SteveMacD]

You know, I remember reading, shortly after she and John married, that Peter Green made some comment about them at a show, and she came up on stage and basically made a few Jewish jokes at his expense.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

You know, I remember reading, shortly after she and John married, that Peter Green made some comment about them at a show, and she came up on stage and basically made a few Jewish jokes at his expense.

well, if we're going to go in that direction... what kind of person shows up at a Halloween party dressed in blackface in the late 1970's? That has always bothered me. Forget about political correctness (ex- I'm willing to recognize Al Jolson as a spectacular entertainer) what inspired her to make that specific choice?

[fleetwoodtrick]

Originally Posted by LukeA

well, if we're going to go in that direction... what kind of person shows up at a Halloween party dressed in blackface in the late 1970's? That has always bothered me. Forget about political correctness (ex- I'm willing to recognize Al Jolson as a spectacular entertainer) what inspired her to make that specific choice?

OK, well I haven't read any of this thread, but I just wanted to say, don't get me started on Al Jolson. My Grandma was one of the founding members of the Al Jolson Society, so I know alllll about Jolson. (I even belong to the society. :/) She has about 3 rooms in her house dedicated to him. And most of the walls are covered with memorabilia, along with TONS of live shows and stuff. Most of which is on records. Sorry if I just wasted one minute of your life ranting about Al Jolson.

[becca]

Well, I don't like that she made comments about Jews or wore black face, that's pretty out there. I can picture the bluesy group meeting the mod-hippy boogie group in all the feathers, ruffles and stuff though... a bit like that scene in Black Adder where Edmund is trying to be the Earl of Doncaster, an absurd picture, but then I laughed at all the morris dancers jokes too so I'm kind of weird. I definitely tend to prefer self-depricating humour to the put-down sort the Brits often wallow in.

Al Jolson should've lived longer just so he could have covered Which Way You Goin' Billy by The Poppy Family. "Billy, don't ya know me Billy? Which Way Ya Goin'? Oh Billy boy, Can I come too?" I saw a movie of his where he dances with giant watermelon slices and it was just so dumb it was kind of enthralling in an Eraserhead sort of way.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by LukeA

well, if we're going to go in that direction... what kind of person shows up at a Halloween party dressed in blackface in the late 1970's? That has always bothered me. Forget about political correctness (ex- I'm willing to recognize Al Jolson as a spectacular entertainer) what inspired her to make that specific choice?

wasn't she Aunt Jermima ?... i can't remember the pic exactly...

[nicepace]

There is a certain level of outrageous behavior that is taken for granted among show business people that doesn't exist in normal social circles. There's usually a flamboyant side to someone who makes it in show biz, and they enjoy being able to show it. I also think this type of outrageousness serves as a sort of mutual self-defense technique among show business people. The very fact of being an entertainer means you're out there being scrutinized by the public, all the time. Thirty years later something you wore once is getting criticized by fans, for instance. (Cf. this thread.)

My point in saying this is that you really can't draw any conclusions about a show business person's real attitudes about Jews/blacks/gays/any minority because of a party costume or joke they told. If you see a pattern of behavior over time, then you can start drawing conclusions.

By the way, I think that performance of "Over and Over" is fabulous. I love Fleetwood Mac when they're a little rough around the edges. I don't think Chris sounds drunk in the sound clip. I think at the beginning she sounds hesitant, like she's having trouble getting the tempo of the song right, but she recovers halfway through the song. I think Mick/John save the day on this clip ... steady as a rock rhythm section.

[macfan 57]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

wasn't she Aunt Jermima ?... i can't remember the pic exactly...

Here's a picture from that Halloween party. John is dressed up as a Nazi. Pretty embarrassing...lol.

I don't like her gay, Jewish(I think she referred to Peter Green as a cocky Jew boy at one time) jokes & blackface at that party. But times were a bit different in those days. She'd never get away with that these days.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by LukeA

what inspired her to make that specific choice?

it was hysterical

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

it was hysterical

i thought so... isn't halloween the one time you're allowed to do stereotypes or characters in good fun???

what's wrong with being black?

i need to take you guys to the west hollywood parade on halloweeen...

As far Christine or John's costume goes on the "off the meter scale"... not even close to groundbreaking....

Laughter is the best medicine...

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

i thought so... isn't halloween the one time you're allowed to do stereotypes or characters in good fun???

what's wrong with being black?

i need to take you guys to the west hollywood parade on halloweeen...

As far Christine or John's costume goes on the "off the meter scale"... not even close to groundbreaking....

Laughter is the best medicine...

Moreover, LB's costume is making fun of and/or disrespecting the Catholic Church and I am sure the Wiccans are not too thrilled or La Nicks' portrayal of a with as a dead zombie. But, they are overlooked.

In the end, humor does not equal racism. Racism is all about intent. But, we are so bludgeoned with political correctness that humor is out the door.

[goldustsongbird]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Yes, Christine has said things about "lezzies" and "poofters" in a few places--the former in a People magazine article from 1976!

Bob Welch has said she was downright sarcastic and that this could be quite funny and amusing--if you were on the right side of it. But remember too that Bob Weston felt she, as well as the other Brits in the band, had become "impossible" with their newfound success. I imagine Christine calmed down once she stopped using cocaine and once the mega-success of the band had run its course (around 1988). Most of her sidemen insist she is great to work with and very down to earth.

I interpret her caustic, even rude comments as a manifestation of some insecurity--of which I suspect she has many. But then I don't know her personally, so who knows? She once complained that she worked with "bitchy" people in that department store before Stan Webb rescued her. Perhaps she was projecting? Perhaps she has always been one of those "bitchy" people herself?

Oh, and she is NOT one to talk about bad fashion choices.

I don't know about her fashion sense, but someone needs to tell her that her fried hair in 1976 (see Midnight Special) was pretty fûcking stupid.

Is that article the one where she said something about being weirded out by female fans? There was one where she said she found it weird that she had all of these "female groupies" lining up for her, but "not sexually - thank god!"

Chris didn't do much cocaine though, did she? I always thought she was more about pot and alcohol.

[JWS]

Originally Posted by LukeA

well, if we're going to go in that direction... what kind of person shows up at a Halloween party dressed in blackface in the late 1970's? That has always bothered me. Forget about political correctness (ex- I'm willing to recognize Al Jolson as a spectacular entertainer) what inspired her to make that specific choice?

Al Jolson! He has been dead 50 years at least. He was in the first talking picture though. Actually it was silent except for one scene. Sorry. I recently read the Warner Brothers biography and tells about it.

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

You know, I remember reading, shortly after she and John married, that Peter Green made some comment about them at a show, and she came up on stage and basically made a few Jewish jokes at his expense.

I don't remember that but I do remember reading parts of a biography of Peter Green where FM was onstage and Peter was introducing the band. This was before John & Christine married (I think). He mentioned that John was shy and took 6 months to pluck up enough courage to hold Christine's hand never mind "f**k the arse off her". John apparently got very cross and called him a "f**kin Jew".

You have to remember that this was a long time ago and language like that was common place. I'm not condoning it just pointing out that people in those days didn't even consider whether that might be disrepectful or hurtful in any way.

I heard Paul McCartney talking quite recently about Brian Epstein and he admitted that at the time they didn't say he was gay just "a poof"

Gail