The Reagans

[dissention]

Originally posted by jwd
How could they possibly be better off with him in power? With the exception of the elite who beckoned to his every wish and demand, or believed what he did; they were oppressed, raped, murdered, tortured, and basically stripped of all their freedoms. If they don't realize it now, they will come to believe and know that they are in a much better place without the ruthless dictator we know as Saddam H. in power.

Of course they are glad Saddam is gone. He was an awful man whose people despised him for his atrocities. But those polls do not reflect their attitudes towards us. They are beginning to see us as just as bad and want us out of their country. They see us as making things worse for them and I can't say I disagree. They see our invasion of their country as the US flexing its muscles and using them for its own agenda. But, even though I didn't support the war (and I still don't), I am glad Saddam is gone.

[jwd]

dissention:

I try to vote that way, but it only lasts so long with me because the Republicans are never the best candidates. I also look at it as how is it going to affect the the other branches of government. I fit will effect it so much as to give the Republicans more power, I certainly won't vote for a Republican. I just don't like what the party stands for (believes) and I pretty much never like the things they do.

And that is your right. I'm glad you exercise it. If more people were concerned with what was going on around them, we'd be better off!


Joe

[dissention]

Originally posted by jwd
And that is your right. I'm glad you exercise it. If more people were concerned with what was going on around them, we'd be better off!


Joe

Amen.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
I just can't agree with those two statements. I don't believe Bush has done the a good job at all with handling terrorism and I firmly believe that he has made things worse since he got involved. He should've stuck to sports, not politics.

I guess I just do not see what else Bush, or any other President for that matter, could have done that would have been significantly better in Afganistan.

On the home front, the Homeland Security Act has some good points, but so many cannot, and validly so IMO, get over the fact that "the evil politicians and law enforcement" will use it to spy on ordinary American citizens who have nothing to do with terrorism. I mean, I am not that against them montoring what people check out in libraries if I truly thought they were going to use it to monitor people who check out books like "how to make a dirty bomb." The problem is I know in my gut that they are going to also see who is looking at communism or, egads, who is reading that elitist foreign media rag "The Economist" (although clearly elitist, one of my fav. magazines in the world BTW !!!!). Yet, the Homeland Security Act passed by an overwhelming majority.

In the end, I am just unsure what else any other President would or could do other than what is being done. Personally, I think we should focus on making the Muslims our allies in the world. I think that would go a lot further. But, that is not a real world solution for a variety of reasons including American hatred of Muslims and vice versa prior to 9/11.

Originally posted by dissention
And once we capture people from those groups, we shouldn't kill them. Imprison them and do whatever, but nothing condones more violence and barbarism. Killing them would make us no better than them, we'd be just a sick.

I was some what not being serious. But, I do think if they are imprisoned, it will lead to more violence and hostage situations to free them.

[Rob67]

Originally posted by dissention
Of course they are glad Saddam is gone. He was an awful man whose people despised him for his atrocities. But those polls do not reflect their attitudes towards us. They are beginning to see us as just as bad and want us out of their country. They see us as making things worse for them and I can't say I disagree. They see our invasion of their country as the US flexing its muscles and using them for its own agenda. But, even though I didn't support the war (and I still don't), I am glad Saddam is gone.

As I said, I'm a moderate conservative (Note I don't use the term "Republican"). I look at the extreme left AND the extreme right the same way...Completely ignorant to the realities of life and history.

It is rather humorous to see how mad some extreme liberals are at Bush. The man can do no right! There have been a few good articles I have read regarding the "Bush Derangement Syndrome"

And yes there was the same kind of anger directed at Clinton from the far right. Silly. I wish people would release their anger and realize that there are real enemies out there. People are sometimes more worried about their own president then other nations and terrorists.

If you step back and take a look at how the economy has acted and reacted over the last 50 years, you will see a rollercoaster trend. It is high for a while, then drops, then goes back up. I find it silly to keep pinning the state of the economy on a president who only has 4-8 years in office. Bush inherited an already declining economy which was made worse by the events of 9/11. Hell, I lost my job the following December. But you know what? I worked my ass off to find another job and didn't cry and wine that life was unfair and that I was "owed" a job. I worked two part time jobs to stay afloat and eventually landed another full time position. I have relatives and friends who have done the same.

When I was laid off, I remember being at my local grocery store. Granted, I was clipping coupons being careful with what I spent. The woman ahead of me in the checkout line had a cart full of name brand food, steaks, and some of the more expensive food items. Stuff I couldn't afford at the time. She had about 8 kids with her and paid with food stamps. On top of that, she bought two cartons of cigarettes. If that doesn't make a hard working person angry, I don't know what would. (I quit smoking when I got laid off for financial reasons.)

People blame the precieved economy and others for their misfortunes way too often in this country. Some people expect everything to be handed to them by the government. People expect us to be nice to everyone in the world and that everything will just be just fine.

I think a flat tax is more then fair. If I make $20,000, then I pay 25%. If I make $2,000,000 then I pay 25%. What's the big deal. The rich are still paying way more taxes. Why punish success?


Sorry about the rant....I got motivated!

Rob

[strandinthewind]

Rock on Rob - and you got to quit smoking - see there is a bright side to everything!!!!!!! Now just don't go back once you get a great job if you haven't gotten one already!!!

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by jwd
I agree with your choice of McCain, although our lesser of two evils, I do believe were different. My plan basically is to vote for the best candidate, regardless of party affiliation. There have been times where I couldn't cast a vote for either(any) of the candidates. We're only stuck with IT because of apathy and people not voicing their opinion. Quite a tragedy that it's happening/happened in this country. What some people in the world would give to have freedom of speech! I'd like to see more people get involved with what's going on in government, not just on a national level, but also at state and local levels too. I do believe the rise of a STRONG third party is something else needed to turn things around with all the bs partisan politics going on. SO MUCH TO DO , SO LITTLE TIME!


Joe

Agreed.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
Of course they are glad Saddam is gone. He was an awful man whose people despised him for his atrocities. But those polls do not reflect their attitudes towards us. They are beginning to see us as just as bad and want us out of their country. They see us as making things worse for them and I can't say I disagree. They see our invasion of their country as the US flexing its muscles and using them for its own agenda. But, even though I didn't support the war (and I still don't), I am glad Saddam is gone.

Is he gone though? Where's the body?

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I mean, I am not that against them montoring what people check out in libraries if I truly thought they were going to use it to monitor people who check out books like "how to make a dirty bomb." The problem is I know in my gut that they are going to also see who is looking at communism or, egads, who is reading that elitist foreign media rag "The Economist" (although clearly elitist, one of my fav. magazines in the world BTW !!!!). Yet, the Homeland Security Act passed by an overwhelming majority.

I was some what not being serious. But, I do think if they are imprisoned, it will lead to more violence and hostage situations to free them.

I think what you need to be worrying about is why a government-funded library stocks a book on their shelf about making dirty bombs.

If you were serious, that's fine. More power to you. It is your opinion and you're entitled to it, I just don't agree (but that seems to be the norm! lol).

BTW, The Economist is my *FAVORITE*!!!!! I luv it!

PS:

Rob67-

I must suffer from Bush Derangement Syndrome.

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Is he gone though? Where's the body?

Oh, he's not GONE gone. He surely isn't dead. I just meant that they're happy that he isn't in power right now. He'll be back, though, mark my words!

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
I think what you need to be worrying about is why a government-funded library stocks a book on their shelf about making dirty bombs.

Amen - I was leaning toward hyperbole as I tend to do!!!!

But, that was one of the main reasons proffered for monitoring libraries. As an aside, I love the fact that the librarians have pretty much refused the govt.'s wishes. Notwithstanding the handsome and talented Johnny Stew (our resident librarian Ledgie), I have this mental image of grannies in flower print dresses marching on Washington

Somewhat along the same lines, a friend of mine was complaining the other day about how she got caught running a red light and speeding by a city placed camera in an intersection. She was like that is so "Big Brother." It made me so mad because I think it is indicative of our society's mindset that the rules don't apply to me and it is only illegal if I get caught. The fact of the matter was she was speeding and she ran a red light regardless of whether she got caught. So, don't then blame the cameras when you are the one who broke the law. AARRGGHHHHH!!!!!!!! Well that was cathartic

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Is he gone though? Where's the body?

Now THAT fiasco was a glaring and huge error by the Bush administration - one of many I submit. I mean how hard could it have been to capture him. I refuse to believe it was that hard. I mean I know he moved around alot. But, money speks loudly and we have alot of it. Surely we could have bribed someone somewhere or sold some terrorist state arms on the side (did I just say that ) for accurate info.

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
But, that was one of the main reasons proffered for monitoring libraries. As an aside, I love the fact that the librarians have pretty much refused the govt.'s wishes. Notwithstanding the handsome and talented Johnny Stew (our resident librarian Ledgie), I have this mental image of grannies in flower print dresses marching on Washington

Quite a vivid image!

I just think, though, that if they didn't stock books about bombs and stuff that tax money wouldn't have to be wasted on pointless bull. I mean, lordy, are that many people going to take out Mein Kampf?

My word, what if someone took out the Kama Sutra AND a book on how to gut fish? That woudl set off some alarms, eh?

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Now THAT fiasco was a glaring and huge error by the Bush administration - one of many I submit. I mean how hard could it have been to capture him. I refuse to believe it was that hard. I mean I know he moved around alot. But, money speks loudly and we have alot of it. Surely we could have bribed someone somewhere or sold some terrorist state arms on the side (did I just say that ) for accurate info.

There was a report that about a week, maybe a little less, before the invasion that armored trucks rolled up and cleared out the banks. He's got plenty of money too. Maybe he's in Syria or hey, North Korea. Birds of a feather...

[Rob67]

"If you are 20 and are a conservative, you have no heart. If you are 50 and are a liberal, you have no mind."
-Winston Churchill

He made a great point. A lot of my views on life have changed since college. Being in the real world definitly affects your outlook on life and reality. College is such an idealistic and protected place that it is hard to understand how the real world looks.

THought I'd share...had this conversation with a friend this morning.

Take it easy.