Lindsey Buckingham Talks Fleetwood Mac Tour, New EP - Rolling Stone

[TerraRhiannon]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Dreams was NOT #1 in my country. But Go Your Own Way was. (As was Oh Well in 1969). Who gets that compensation?

Oh they had #1's all over the world.. Gypsy and Dont Stop went to #1 in my country, but I don't count it as actually being one of their number ones. Little Lies went #1 in US AC but they don't count it.. I don't know why that is.

But I think we're just talking about the country they produced the songs in at the time and they country they called home at the time. (Rumours line up)

[elle]

Originally Posted by elle

talking about hits, i was [pleasantly] surprised that Gold Dust Woman and Landslide seem to be 2 SN songs that got by far the biggest recognition reaction as they started during these shows. and GDW was never a single or a "legitimate" hit right? kinda like The Chain or SHN.

it's almost like many of the songs that were not released as singles when the albums first came out were actually better and had more staying power than many that were.

i still stand by this argument. GDW, Landslide, Second Hand News and The Chain (besides GYOW and Dreams) seem to be played more by classic rock stations in DC/Philly area than BN's other "charting" hits. those songs stood the test of time, whether or not they were released as singles.

Rhiannon... do you remember SN doing it with Taylor Swift at grammys and all those tweets asking what is this song about Rhianna?

Originally Posted by WildHearted

Hits on the Billboard 100 for the Rumours lineup divide up like this:


Christine
Everywhere -14
Little Lies - 4
Love In Store - 22
Hold Me - 4
Think About Me - 20
You Make Loving Fun - 9
Don't Stop - 3
Say You Love Me - 11
Over My Head - 20

Stevie
Seven Wonders - 19
Gypsy - 12
Fireflies - 60
Sisters of the Moon - 86
Sara - 7
Dreams - 1
Rhiannon - 11

Lindsey
Go Your Own Way - 10
Tusk - 8
Big Love - 5
Family Man - 90

So, looking at the top 20 for example - Chris has 8, Stevie has 5, and Lindsey has 3. Lindsey actually has more top 10 hits than Stevie, by one.

exactly - depends on where you make the cut. there was a recent article (RS?) listing FM top 10 hits and people here seemed surprised and miffed because it broke down as 4 Christine, 2 Stevie and 3 Lindsey (guess Lindsey with FM either has a huge hit or he goes down in flames ).
(btw thanks for the list, i was lazy to go look for it. )

Originally Posted by bethelblues

As for other songs, there are certainly perceived 'hits', or what the band would call must-play songs that weren't singles. There's the band's total effort The Chain. Lindsey's are Secondhand News and Never Going Back Again. Slightly behind those two is I'm So Afraid, which,

these "perceived hits" are still different from the "must played" songs. so if we are already dissecting this, we should separate those 2 categories also. ISA is a must played song, but not a perceived hit.

i agree with you on Landslide, GDW, The Chain, SHN and NGBA being "perceived hits". these songs are instantly recognized by anybody, and Landslide, GDW and NGBA were extensively covered by other artists and those covers are or have been in rotation on various stations (didn't someone tweet when NGBA started that FM is covering that song? ).

i disagree with you on Silver Springs. i never hear that one on the radio and don't see it listed on any "greatest songs" list, and in concert general audience doesn't seem to be that familiar with it. it does seem to be iconic among shippers but those people are not your general audience.

although, maybe we just listen to different radio stations. you may be listening to adult contemporary while i'm referring to classic rock.

Originally Posted by bethelblues

They are a balanced trio: Christine = pop relevancy. Lindsey = sound and direction of the group. Stevie = the most talented songwriter, and I'd argue the writer of their most lasting and uniquely Fleetwood Mac songs.

i think it's hard to argue against your first 2 points (Christine and Lindsey) because that's backed up by some facts like a number of Christine's top 10 or top 20 hits, and Lindsey's credits for production. the 3rd one - that Stevie is the most talented songwriter is an opinion, not a fact . so while you may believe that, and majority on these boards who are SN-fans first may support you in that, that's hardly a fact .

it's probably a pretty easy argument to make that of all FM songwriters, over different incarnations, by far the most talented one (and i mean no competition whatsoever how far ahead he is!) is Peter Green. the number of iconic, amazing, lasting songs that man wrote in the short amount of time he was really active is astounding. if nothing else, is there anybody who hasn't heard Black Magic Woman?

Originally Posted by bethelblues

Gradual Hits over Time, eventually singles = Landslide, Silver Springs
'Perceived Hits'/Non-singles = I still wonder about Songbird---does anyone hear that song on the radio??? It seems like perfect Adult Contemporary material. I'm not sure if non-singles cannot be played, but then Gold Dust Woman appears on classic rock stations.

yes. as does Second Hand News and The Chain. but not Silver Springs.

Songbird was covered by Willie Nelson, among others.

Songbird and ISA while concert staples, i would not necessarily count among any kind of radio hits. i don't think ISA ever had much or any radio play.

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Dreams was NOT #1 in my country. But Go Your Own Way was. (As was Oh Well in 1969). Who gets that compensation?

and Albatross.
(but than there's embarrassment of Oh Diane charting in UK... , but i guess not in your country)

[elle]

oh talking about #1 hits - someone mentioned a huge number of Mariah's against only 1 for FM.

but remember, CCR never had a #1 hit?! Fogerty always proudly reminds people of that. and how many huge hits and iconic songs that everybody knows did they have?

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by elle

i agree with you on Landslide, GDW, The Chain, SHN and NGBA being "perceived hits". these songs are instantly recognized by anybody, and Landslide, GDW and NGBA were extensively covered by other artists and those covers are or have been in rotation on various stations (didn't someone tweet when NGBA started that FM is covering that song? ).

Who covered NGBA that was popular? (I've actually never heard a cover of that song by anybody)

[bethelblues]

Elle, thanks for responding to some of my comments.

To clarify for people in other countries: since the American music industry is the largest in the world, the band directly refers to Dreams as their only number one. It's the Billboard Chart that is most important, for not only acclaim but also for industry respect. That being said, I'm sure Lindsey and Christine were thrilled that their songs went number one in other places. And in the long-run, as I said before, it doesn't really matter if you had a number-one hit or not, but that the song endures. That is certainly the case for this band, as they are packing the concert arenas (unlike other acts who had significantly more number ones). I'm glad that Fleetwood Mac did get one though.

Originally Posted by elle

exactly - depends on where you make the cut. there was a recent article (RS?) listing FM top 10 hits and people here seemed surprised and miffed because it broke down as 4 Christine, 2 Stevie and 3 Lindsey (guess Lindsey with FM either has a huge hit or he goes down in flames ).
(btw thanks for the list, i was lazy to go look for it. )

I think when bolding the top 10, and I can see including all top 20 songs might be too large a sample size for hits, I would definitely include Stevie's Rhiannon (#11) and Gypsy (#12). They were both huge hits for the band. And I would argue that Rhiannon is probably one of the most important songs put out by Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac. So that would bring Stevie's total to four with the band, not including her solo success or Landslide and Silver Springs, which became hits over time and were finally released as singles in 1997.

Originally Posted by elle

these "perceived hits" are still different from the "must played" songs. so if we are already dissecting this, we should separate those 2 categories also. ISA is a must played song, but not a perceived hit.

i agree with you on Landslide, GDW, The Chain, SHN and NGBA being "perceived hits". these songs are instantly recognized by anybody, and Landslide, GDW and NGBA were extensively covered by other artists and those covers are or have been in rotation on various stations (didn't someone tweet when NGBA started that FM is covering that song? ).

i disagree with you on Silver Springs. i never hear that one on the radio and don't see it listed on any "greatest songs" list, and in concert general audience doesn't seem to be that familiar with it. it does seem to be iconic among shippers but those people are not your general audience.

although, maybe we just listen to different radio stations. you may be listening to adult contemporary while i'm referring to classic rock.

That's a good point. You can divide up further, and I agree with your point on I'm So Afraid. I hear Silver Springs on once in a while. I don't listen to the radio, but I know it's been played on the Adult Contemporary station in the NY area. It is also the Grammy-nominated Silver Springs. Weird that so few of Fleetwood Mac's songs were ever singled out with nominations, especially for the Song of the Year and Record of the Year categories.

Originally Posted by elle

i think it's hard to argue against your first 2 points (Christine and Lindsey) because that's backed up by some facts like a number of Christine's top 10 or top 20 hits, and Lindsey's credits for production. the 3rd one - that Stevie is the most talented songwriter is an opinion, not a fact . so while you may believe that, and majority on these boards who are SN-fans first may support you in that, that's hardly a fact .

it's probably a pretty easy argument to make that of all FM songwriters, over different incarnations, by far the most talented one (and i mean no competition whatsoever how far ahead he is!) is Peter Green. the number of iconic, amazing, lasting songs that man wrote in the short amount of time he was really active is astounding. if nothing else, is there anybody who hasn't heard Black Magic Woman?

Peter Green certainly has some great songs. But for the Rumours era, I do think Stevie's songs are the most unique and set up Fleetwood Mac as very different from their contemporary bands. Also gave the band serious rock credit that Christine's songs never did. Definitely my opinion, but I think without Stevie's songs the band might not have seen the same success. I'd argue that they are probably the most unique and singular of Fleetwood Mac's output.

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by bethelblues

I think when bolding the top 10, and I can see including all top 20 songs might be too large a sample size for hits, I would definitely include Stevie's Rhiannon (#11) and Gypsy (#12). They were both huge hits for the band, Gypsy being the lead single off Mirage. And I would argue that Rhiannon is probably one of the most important songs put out by Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac. So that would bring Stevie's total to four with the band, not including her solo success or Landslide and Silver Springs, which became hits over time and were finally released as singles in 1997.

Silver Springs did not become a hit "over time". That implies it was a gradual thing. When it was released on The Dance it was just a 20-year-old obscure b-side. It gained some exposure then and was an AC hit, but it did not crack the Hot 100.

Originally Posted by bethelblues

Peter Green certainly has some great songs. But for the Rumours era, I do think Stevie's songs are the most unique and set up Fleetwood Mac as very different from their contemporary bands. Also gave the band serious rock credit that Christine's songs never did. Definitely my opinion, but I think without Stevie's songs the band might not have seen the same success. I'd argue that they are probably the most unique and singular of Fleetwood Mac's output.

Stevie has talent in songwriting, but she also does not play an instrument beyond a very basic level. She needs help in bringing her songs to fruition. She even brought in a song written by an outside writer when it came time for Tango. Why do that for such a supremely talented songwriter who is better than the other songwriters in the band? In fact, I skip her own songs on Tango because they just aren't good, and even her Mirage don't do anything for me, "Gypsy" aside. I love her songs on the first three albums though.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

Well, it depends on what you call a 'hit.' The entire Rumours album except for a few songs gets played constantly on the radio around here, but I'm not sure that any of the songs that weren't released as singles actually count as having charted, regardless of their airplay. At least, I can't find them. So another thing to consider is that Chris often had more of her songs released as singles than the others did (probably because her songs were good single material and were likely hits, as was proven), so they would be listed on the charts whereas songs that weren't released as singles but are still played a bunch and would be considered "hits" in the mind of the general public don't appear on the charts.

Hits on the Billboard 100 for the Rumours lineup divide up like this:


Christine
Everywhere -14
Little Lies - 4
Love In Store - 22
Hold Me - 4
Think About Me - 20
You Make Loving Fun - 9
Don't Stop - 3
Say You Love Me - 11
Over My Head - 20

Stevie
Seven Wonders - 19
Gypsy - 12
Fireflies - 60
Sisters of the Moon - 86
Sara - 7
Dreams - 1
Rhiannon - 11

Lindsey
Go Your Own Way - 10
Tusk - 8
Big Love - 5
Family Man - 90

So, looking at the top 20 for example - Chris has 8, Stevie has 5, and Lindsey has 3. Lindsey actually has more top 10 hits than Stevie, by one.

As WildHearted noted, it depends on what you call a "hit". I think it's worth noting that these are just the charted songs, which is fine, but imo Stevie song's that were album cuts which get perhaps more airplay than some of her biggest hits, should be weighted equally as "hit" songs even though they were never officially released, but are just as legendary and familiar to fans & non fans.

"Landslide" - Perhaps arguably the biggest (& most covered) Stevie/FM song of all time.
"Gold Dust Woman" - Still in heavy rotation of Triple A & Classic Rock radio formats.
"Silver Springs" - Which received heavy rotation as a B-side back in 77'-78', Then again as a "promo" single with "The Dance" release - which is why it didn't chart in 1997 - it wasn't eligible.

Plus Lindsey's songs which also get notable airplay still:
"Never Going Back Again"
"Monday Morning"
"Second Hand News"


Christine did not have album cuts that became legendary, popular or heavily played as these 3 Stevie & 3 Lindsey album tracks. So essentially imo Stevie is tied with Christine for having as many popular or "hit" songs.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

i disagree with you on Silver Springs. i never hear that one on the radio and don't see it listed on any "greatest songs" list, and in concert general audience doesn't seem to be that familiar with it. it does seem to be iconic among shippers but those people are not your general audience.

I disagree with that, I hear casual fans ask or talk about Silver Springs all the time. I'm not into it myself. I was during the Dance tour itself, but I didn't like it on the Dance dvd and I haven't really liked it after the Dance tour, but that tv moment stood out for people who had never even heard of FM and they still remember it to this day.

I saw someone who is a techie, not a music personality say she went to the jazzfest in a post and someone shot back, "Oh, please tell me they did Silver Springs." And she said no, that that would have been such an emotional high point, but she said that NGBA was a good substitute. Silver Springs seems to be on a lot of people's minds and I think it's liked by casual fans even more than focused fans.

I don't think shippers look to Silver Springs for special moments. It's probably been 10 years or more since anything special happened during Silver Springs.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bethelblues

That is true. Wasn't that the interview she got her songs mixed up and said they were doing You Make Loving Fun rather than Say You Love Me, and that they weren't quite getting it? I remember reading it.

Yes, I wondered about that, if she got that song wrong (although she didn't mention SYLM at all) or if she knew they'd been trying YMLF as well and been told that it'd failed.

The thing is, you don't have to try to recreate her vocals on YMLF. Just cover the song and interpret it your way and you still have the really nice guitar in it, which would be Lindsey's original contribution. I think they could make that work better than SYLM, if they'd wanted.

Michele

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by MikeVielhaber

Who covered NGBA that was popular? (I've actually never heard a cover of that song by anybody)

Kieth Urban
John Mayer

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by elle

it's probably a pretty easy argument to make that of all FM songwriters, over different incarnations, by far the most talented one (and i mean no competition whatsoever how far ahead he is!) is Peter Green. the number of iconic, amazing, lasting songs that man wrote in the short amount of time he was really active is astounding. if nothing else, is there anybody who hasn't heard Black Magic Woman?
(but than there's embarrassment of Oh Diane charting in UK... , but i guess not in your country)

All of your points are valid except for this one because, while PG wrote BMW, you can thank Carlos Santana for the fact that the song is widely known.

PS, I did not know you were not a fan of Oh Diane.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by MikeVielhaber

You mean "Sara"?

Originally Posted by elle

no, you need to re-read it - this one's for me - dropping Sara and playing Tusk once again instead.

I meant Sara.
I didn't see that one in the same way I didn't see that car I almost smashed into today while taking a left turn out of a side street. If he hadn't of pounded the horn we would surely have crashed.

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by vivfox

All of your points are valid except for this one because, while PG wrote BMW, you can thank Carlos Santana for the fact that the song is widely known.

PS, I did not know you were not a fan of Oh Diane.

Ah, but she's talking about songwriting, correct? If Santana's version is what sold it to the masses then so be it, but Peter still wrote the song.

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

So, looking at the top 20 for example - Chris has 8, Stevie has 5, and Lindsey has 3. Lindsey actually has more top 10 hits than Stevie, by one.

Well, goodness. Stevie can't be blamed for the majesty that is Gypsy not cracking the top-10.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

Kieth Urban
John Mayer

John Mayer covered it? When? I know he covered Dreams as part of a mash-up with one of his songs, but I've never heard him play NGBA. Cool.