The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > The Early Years
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
View Poll Results: Should Bob Brunning be regarded as a member of Fleetwood Mac?
Yes of course, he was the original bass player! 25 83.33%
No, he was a backing musician, and not a very good one at that! 5 16.67%
Bob who? Didn't he run off with Mick Fleetwood's wife? 0 0%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 06-19-2010, 09:33 PM
LukeA LukeA is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,338
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee View Post
Before I answer this question, let's consider what The Moody Blues think of the first three years of the band by checking their line-ups
Are you saying the Moody Blues' have disowned "Go Now", which is only their best song? If so, F' them.

(now, excuse me while I go illegally download the vaunted masterpiece that is"Your Wildest Dreams")
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 06-19-2010, 11:25 PM
jaycee's Avatar
jaycee jaycee is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 664
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeA View Post
Are you saying the Moody Blues' have disowned "Go Now", which is only their best song? If so, F' them.

(now, excuse me while I go illegally download the vaunted masterpiece that is"Your Wildest Dreams")
Well, they seemed to acknowledge "Go Now" for a while (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bes...he_Moody_Blues, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antholo...Blues_album%29), but not anymore.
My point was that the current members of this band have willingly ignored/forgotten almost three (most enjoyable) years of its history, including an entire album, because they now consider the music produced in that time irrelevant, for no better reason than their musical style and line-up changed radically for several albums after. Going by their ideas, I wouldn't consider Bob Brunning a member of FM.
Now, I don't actually agree with The Moody Blues at all on this matter. As for whether Bob Brunning should be regarded as a member of FM... well, it's a lot like asking if a tomato should be regarded as a fruit - it's not up to us to decide how reality is! Bob Brunning was a member. That's all there is to it. Why bother to ask if he should be regarded as such? A more pertinent question would be about whether he made any meaningful contributions to FM during his time as a member, or shaped the band's future significantly.
__________________
The two essentials for a healthy mind:
1. Philosophy & Science
2. Fleetwood Mac
NB. Not necessarily in that order...
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-20-2010, 12:14 AM
sjpdg's Avatar
sjpdg sjpdg is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 513
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriskisn View Post
Brunning was hired as a band member, perhaps temporarily, perhaps not. Nigel Watson, as I understand it, wasn't even hired, he tagged along with PG. No different to Sharon Celani and Lori Nicks.

It is a debate that we are never going to end without input from either Peter Green or Mick Fleetwood. The fact that Mick considers himself the ONLY founding member, indicates that McVie wasn't a founding member, and thus, Brunning was.

I wonder whether PG said to Brunning "When John McVie joins, you are out of the band" OR "If John McVie joins, you are out of the band". We shall never know...
I love your remark about Celani and Lori Nicks!! Much like Brunning ever since leaving the band, they are "hangers on" in my opinion. (And I'll likely be crucified in writing for saying so by the Welsh Witch devotees!!!!) But honestly, back-up singers can be replaced and no one will really care. Good bass players are hard to find.

Was Brunning a member of FM? Of course! Wasn't the original bass player, but he was in the band, no doubt, at least in my opinion.
__________________
Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 06-20-2010, 04:59 PM
Wouter Vuijk's Avatar
Wouter Vuijk Wouter Vuijk is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 688
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjpdg View Post
Was Brunning a member of FM? Of course! Wasn't the original bass player, but he was in the band, no doubt, at least in my opinion.
Eeehmmm... If BB wasn't the original bass player in the band, who played the bass in FM before he did?

BTW What do you think of me?
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-20-2010, 05:00 PM
chiliD's Avatar
chiliD chiliD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: In the backseat of a Studebaker
Posts: 9,702
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
By the way, if we consider Bob Brunning a former member (which he is, whether we want to admit it or not) we should also note that Doug Graves was one, too--and, to a slightly lesser extent, Nigel Watson. They played gigs with the group in a legitimate way. Graves was even introduced on the Don Kirshner (sp?) special as the newest addition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriskisn View Post
See there is a difference though between backing musicians and band members. While Doug Graves was introduced as the new member was that the intention of the band or was it a mistake on the part of the Don Kirshner show? Perhaps he was the missing 17th member...

Brunning was hired as a band member, perhaps temporarily, perhaps not. Nigel Watson, as I understand it, wasn't even hired, he tagged along with PG. No different to Sharon Celani and Lori Nicks.

It is a debate that we are never going to end without input from either Peter Green or Mick Fleetwood. The fact that Mick considers himself the ONLY founding member, indicates that McVie wasn't a founding member, and thus, Brunning was.

It really does all come down to the intention of the rest of the band and management when hiring. People like Nigel Watson, Doug Graves, Sharon Celani, Brett Tuggle, and what was that guys name Michael Thompson (the guy off Time whatever his name was I'm too lazy to go and look at the CD), were never intended to be part of the band.

I wonder whether PG said to Brunning "When John McVie joins, you are out of the band" OR "If John McVie joins, you are out of the band". We shall never know...
Let's not forget Bob Welch's pal, Bobby Hunt...he finished off the tour that Doug Graves started...just "helping fill out the sound"...which reminds me...THAT is the exact line that was used by Mick in his book about Christine joining for the Kiln House tour. So when exactly did Christine crossover from "helping fill out the sound" to becoming a member? When they started the sessions for Future Games or sometime DURING the Kiln House tour?

Yes...Michael Thompson...he's a well-known "first call" SESSION MUSICIAN...so there wouldn't be any intent of his being a "band member"
__________________
Among God's creations, two, the dog and the guitar, have taken all the sizes and all the shapes in order not to be separated from the man.---Andres Segovia
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 06-20-2010, 06:13 PM
wetcamelfood wetcamelfood is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Peabody, MA., USA
Posts: 2,048
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiliD View Post
So when exactly did Christine crossover from "helping fill out the sound" to becoming a member? When they started the sessions for Future Games or sometime DURING the Kiln House tour?
Concert wise, I'm not sure, but recording wise, I understood the Dragonfly/Purple Dancer single (released between KH & FG) were the first FM recordings where CM was actually a "member" and not a "guest".

John
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 06-21-2010, 12:37 AM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 8,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiliD View Post
Let's not forget Bob Welch's pal, Bobby Hunt...he finished off the tour that Doug Graves started...just "helping fill out the sound"...which reminds me...THAT is the exact line that was used by Mick in his book about Christine joining for the Kiln House tour. So when exactly did Christine crossover from "helping fill out the sound" to becoming a member? When they started the sessions for Future Games or sometime DURING the Kiln House tour?
A while back, I pondered that exact question. Christine may never have actually formally joined Fleetwood Mac. I suspect her status evolved, which I think is pretty cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wetcamelfood View Post
Concert wise, I'm not sure, but recording wise, I understood the Dragonfly/Purple Dancer single (released between KH & FG) were the first FM recordings where CM was actually a "member" and not a "guest".
I wonder about that, too. I have the 45, but not a picture sleeve, so I really can't comment. And, when did the 45 actually come out? Was Jeremy still in the band at that point?
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 06-21-2010, 05:24 AM
chriskisn's Avatar
chriskisn chriskisn is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjpdg View Post
I love your remark about Celani and Lori Nicks!! Much like Brunning ever since leaving the band, they are "hangers on" in my opinion. (And I'll likely be crucified in writing for saying so by the Welsh Witch devotees!!!!) But honestly, back-up singers can be replaced and no one will really care. Good bass players are hard to find.

Was Brunning a member of FM? Of course! Wasn't the original bass player, but he was in the band, no doubt, at least in my opinion.
Well ok if you want to get picky then McVie was the first bass player, left the band, Brunning was the next guy and then McVie came back.

However I would suggest that including Fleetwood Mac the instrumental (and whatever the other song was called) as being by Fleetwood Mac the band would be stretching it just a little.

Actually that scenario would give more weight to Brunning being a member as he would have replaced John McVie who had LEFT!!!
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:00 AM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 8,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriskisn View Post
Well ok if you want to get picky then McVie was the first bass player, left the band, Brunning was the next guy and then McVie came back.

However I would suggest that including Fleetwood Mac the instrumental (and whatever the other song was called) as being by Fleetwood Mac the band would be stretching it just a little.

Actually that scenario would give more weight to Brunning being a member as he would have replaced John McVie who had LEFT!!!
That argument doesn't really washed for me. Those sessions certain laid the foundation for Fleetwood Mac, and could have legitimately been placed on Fleetwood Mac albums. However, those songs were recorded by the Bluesbreakers, not Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood Mac, as an entity, did not exist at that point in time.

Brunning was the original bassist, and in the band with the understanding that if/when McVie wanted in, he was out.

What lends credibility to the question of him being an actual member of Fleetwood Mac is the Kiln House tour after Jeremy left. Peter Green was brought back, though it's generally not considered an official incarnation of the band, as it was understood that he was out at the end of the tour.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 06-21-2010, 10:19 AM
wetcamelfood wetcamelfood is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Peabody, MA., USA
Posts: 2,048
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
I wonder about that, too. I have the 45, but not a picture sleeve, so I really can't comment. And, when did the 45 actually come out? Was Jeremy still in the band at that point?
I don't have the 45 but as near as I can figure out it was released in 3/71 but recorded late in '70,

Jeremy was definitely still there since we can hear him sing some lead vocals lines in PD so it couldn't have been recorded any later than 2/71 since that's when JS left and I doubt they went to do the gig in LA he disappeared before the day after etc. so...

John
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-21-2010, 10:26 AM
chiliD's Avatar
chiliD chiliD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: In the backseat of a Studebaker
Posts: 9,702
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
However, those songs were recorded by the Bluesbreakers, not Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood Mac, as an entity, did not exist at that point in time.
In a very loose comparison, it's the same as a few of those early Savoy Brown albums...even though everybody except Kim Simmonds bailed to form Foghat, it still was Savoy Brown that recorded the albums, not Foghat.

(ok, who had milk spew out their nose while reading the word "Foghat"??)
__________________
Among God's creations, two, the dog and the guitar, have taken all the sizes and all the shapes in order not to be separated from the man.---Andres Segovia
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 06-21-2010, 10:38 AM
aleuzzi's Avatar
aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,983
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiliD View Post
So when exactly did Christine crossover from "helping fill out the sound" to becoming a member? When they started the sessions for Future Games or sometime DURING the Kiln House tour?
Based on the Madison Blues cd (which includes live material from the Kiln House tour) it was clear that Christine's presence in the band was pretty much up front right from the beginning. She sang lead on a number of songs, chatted with the audience between numbers, often provided count-offs and directions for the rest of the band (chaps, she calls them).

So, whether FM initially wanted her to "fill out the sound" it almost immediately blossomed into full participation. (The band did some live-in-studio cuts before the tour with Christine singing lead on two of them.) Some writers have even suggested her involvement would have been more prominent on Kiln House itself if it weren't for existing contract with Mike Vernon/Blue Horizon.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 06-21-2010, 10:42 AM
aleuzzi's Avatar
aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,983
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wetcamelfood View Post
Concert wise, I'm not sure, but recording wise, I understood the Dragonfly/Purple Dancer single (released between KH & FG) were the first FM recordings where CM was actually a "member" and not a "guest".

John
She began touring with them as a front-line member (as opposed to merely filling out the sound) on the Kiln House tour. This decision appears to have come about when the band were rehearsing right before the tour. Initially, she was asked to fill out the sound but right away she was singing lead and helping to front the band. Check out the Madison Blues cd. She was indeed present on the recording of Dragonfly.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:27 AM
wetcamelfood wetcamelfood is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Peabody, MA., USA
Posts: 2,048
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
She began touring with them as a front-line member (as opposed to merely filling out the sound) on the Kiln House tour. This decision appears to have come about when the band were rehearsing right before the tour. Initially, she was asked to fill out the sound but right away she was singing lead and helping to front the band. Check out the Madison Blues cd. She was indeed present on the recording of Dragonfly.
Oh I agree with this, I was just answering when talking abount the D/PD single.

Now that you mention the BH contract, that is coming back, they wanted to make her a FM member but they needed to termiante her solo BH contract before doing that & I think the legal matters were resolved in Aug of '70 so this would be my guess.

John
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 06-21-2010, 08:09 PM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 8,719
Default

Actually, I just reread that part of the book, and Mick states that she was asked to join the band prior to the tour. My new hunch is that the whole language of being a "guest on the tour to help fill out the sound" language came from Cliff Davis, since Christine was probably still under contract with Blue Horizon.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


The Zoo Shakin' the Cage CD Mick Fleetwood Bekka Bramlett Billy Thorpe picture

The Zoo Shakin' the Cage CD Mick Fleetwood Bekka Bramlett Billy Thorpe

$14.72



RITA COOLIDGE CD THINKIN' ABOUT YOU BEKKA BRAMLETT LETTING YOU GO WITH LOVE 1998 picture

RITA COOLIDGE CD THINKIN' ABOUT YOU BEKKA BRAMLETT LETTING YOU GO WITH LOVE 1998

$14.99



I Got News for You - Audio CD By Bekka Bramlett - VERY GOOD picture

I Got News for You - Audio CD By Bekka Bramlett - VERY GOOD

$249.52



SEALED***South of Heaven, West of Hell Dwight Yoakam  CD 2001 Brand New picture

SEALED***South of Heaven, West of Hell Dwight Yoakam CD 2001 Brand New

$29.99



Bekka (Bramlett) & Billy (Burnette) - Bekka & Billy - 1997 Almo Sounds - Used CD picture

Bekka (Bramlett) & Billy (Burnette) - Bekka & Billy - 1997 Almo Sounds - Used CD

$9.00




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved