Which Christine McVie song from Tusk is your favorite?

[michelej1]

Fleetwood Mac is the band that is famous for people breaking up with each other and famous for doing drugs, but a lot of people don’t know which couples broke up or who was sleeping with whom. A lot of them probably think Mick got a divorce from Christine. They have no idea who Jenny is.

They don’t read the details. They hear the summary and don’t put names to the stories or match faces with the names. Most people don’t research a band before buying a record or going to a concert. Despite the success of Rumours and the fact that I knew the songs, I really didn’t know that the band who sang SYLM was the same band that sang GYOW. It was only after Sara came out that I bought the haunting single, then I bought the album and then I dug my heels in, bought the older records, read all the articles and started going to concerts and learning everything there was to know. But I enjoyed their music for several years before I bothered to learn anything about the band’s background.

We all have favorite bands that we collect information on and then we just have bands that we want to tap our toes to and we pay little attention to the history. What we know here is not common knowledge and what we know here seldom spurs ticket sales or Billboard charts. Does it fill magazine articles? Yes it does but don’t think that more than 20% of people who attend a concert read magazine articles about the musicians.

OK, I know Alanis Morissette broke up with that guy who was on Full House and her album was about that, but if I bought the album it was because of the songs, not the gossip.

I don’t follow music fans on social media. But I follow people who enjoy a television show that I like (I am a Joshua Jackson fan). And I see someone who has a Stevie Nicks avatar. Her username changes but it is always a variation on Rhiannon. Well, even with Stevie as their internet face, you would be shocked at how little they know about Fleetwood Mac.

[elle]

i remember when i first joined The Ledge and people here kept saying how it was impossible not to know OOTC came out in the early 90s, that commercials for it were everywhere. yes, if you were a FM fan and interested, you may have noticed them. not if you were general music lover.

turns out in early 90s i was following what was happening in the music, happily went to see bunch of shows (including Nirvana and original Stone Temple Pilots). i never saw a single commercial for OOTC, and never heard of Lindsey Buckingham. (i so wish now i saw him on OOTC tour.) yet Fleetwood Mac was everywhere with Bill Clinton and Don't Stop. they were unavoidable. yet that did absolutely nothing for the sales of new Fleetwood Mac album at the time, or Lindsey's OOTC. i didn't have a clue who is or isn't in the band, or even that their "classic lineup" is not together. but again, they were everywhere with Don't Stop. i even bought their green greatest hits album (with that BMG deal they had going where you can get x albums for like a cent each), listened to it once, and didn't care for it much. i was into grunge. which is what was REALLY everywhere at the time. yet, people here kept saying how much advertising OOTC had at the time and that it was unavoidable. just shows you how fan perspective is a very different one than a general audience perspective.

Fleetwood Mac can pack arenas because everyone knows band's name, brand, and hits. not because they know the names of the people in the band, who is in the band at what time, what is the back story at any given time etc etc. that's the thing with huge commercial acts - they attract extra people who fill arenas or stadiums, just by their brand name. just to say they saw Fleetwood Mac.

[elle]

another thing - what was happening in the 80s or 90s as far as the access to info was very very different than now, once internet became pervasive. now all info is at your fingertips, and social media amplifies to huge proportions. that's very different from several articles in music journals that you had to go fish for back before the internet.

as far as the tour in 2014-15, there were several things that collided in the pretty perfect storm at the time - while people may not know the names of all band members, the Glee episode made the songs and Rumours album go viral. not as much as tiktok in 2020, but it was definitely a comeback. and then, miracle happened - the band actually reunited with their biggest lineup, intact. that is rare for these older legendary bands. REALLY rare. and then, Stevie Nicks guest starred on AHS. that added a whole another layer of young girls who became huge stans and gave Nicks a whole another persona on top of her already existing persona. so all those 3 things together had people who had no clue that FM was touring in 2009 or 2013 flocking to their shows in 2014-15.

in 2009 and 2013, it was not general audience's knowledge of the band membership that made some feel like something was missing - it was lack of the songs in the setlist. experience of seeing 2013 show in Scotland really made that crystal clear for me. most Fleetwood Mac songs people recognized there were Christine's. in the bar next to the venue they were playing FM songs after the show. guess what songs? Everywhere, Little Lies, Don't Stop - Christine's songs were half of the playlist. same tour, i took my then pre-teen daughter to one of the shows and played the very best of FM double album in the car driving from the show. she was like - wait who sings those [Christine's songs]? and why were they not playing them?

[SteveMacD]

So, people were expecting to see Lindsey Buckingham in 1987 but were so casual in their fandom that they didn’t realize Fleetwood Mac was missing a woman in 2003-13. Got it.

However, it begs the question that if most people going to shows are so casual in their fandom that they‘re clueless about the composition of the band, not in terms of knowing their names, but that they were two women and three men, if it’s because Fleetwood Mac is just a brand, then why was the Time lineup a flop?

Ponder that while I get some popcorn.

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

So, people were expecting to see Lindsey Buckingham in 1987

"people" who were expecting to see LB in 1987 were members of The Ledge. you seem to be particularly invested in finding out more about this; if you do the search you can probably find those posts.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

So, people were expecting to see Lindsey Buckingham in 1987 but were so casual in their fandom that they didn’t realize Fleetwood Mac was missing a woman in 2003-13. Got it.

However, it begs the question that if most people going to shows are so casual in their fandom that they‘re clueless about the composition of the band, not in terms of knowing their names, but that they were two women and three men, if it’s because Fleetwood Mac is just a brand, then why was the Time lineup a flop?

Ponder that while I get some popcorn.

coz the music wasn't as good, and it didn't align with the zeitgeist in music at that time as it had in the 70s. In fact, in the 70s FM was just that little bit ahead of the curve, and became part of the forefront of those defining pop music.

Cut to the time Tusk was out, and music had shifted to punk and new wave. I still have my old collection of magazines with FM on the cover along with the Eagles and Springsteen which call them all over-bloated dinosaurs whose time had passed. So yeah, fans from the heyday of the 70s knew the gossip, but they were already considered "establishment" and somewhat passe by the early 80s and over and done by early 90s. I had moved on by then having graduated college, begun my career and building an adult life. Many younger people even by then knew the name and knew they were a band that had big hits in the past, but not as part of their generation (how I grew up feeling about the 60s).

They got a bump from Clinton but really it was The Dance that brought them back.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

"people" who were expecting to see LB in 1987 were members of The Ledge.

I‘m sorry, but the story was too huge in 1987.

No, there wasn’t social media, but this was also before digital cable. The only news station was CNN. MTV and VH-1 were actual music video stations and major players in the music industry. People still read newspapers and music magazines, where the story was heavily covered. Entertainment Tonight was really the only entertainment news program. There were very few outlets. That lack of digital television and social media was advantageous for a band at the level of Fleetwood Mac, especially in 1987, when they were still relevant and had a hit album, because it allowed them to have a dominating story in the press. That was free publicity.

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

coz the music wasn't as good, and it didn't align with the zeitgeist in music at that time as it had in the 70s.

I wasn’t talking about the album, just the live shows. And, considering Smashing Pumpkins had an alternative hit with Landslide, one would think that it wasn‘t completely unaligned with the zeitgeist. I mean, less than two years after the last tour date by the Mason-Bramlett lineup, probably on a bill with REO Speedwagon and Pat Benatar, Fleetwood Mac was playing a sold-out arena tour with the Rumours lineup. If Fleetwood Mac is just a brand to most casual fans, then why would it matter who was in the band? Why such a discrepancy in such a short period of time?

[FuzzyPlum]

Tango In The Night was a particularly big album here in the UK. Throughout 87-88 I think it hit Number 1 on 3 different occasions. Pretty sure its success and the singles' success had little or nothing to do with Lindsey leaving.

I got into FM due to my parents' copy of TITN. To this day they probably have little or no idea who the band members are (possibly they'd know Stevie). They only knew the band due to Rumours. They are typical casual fans- will buy a couple of albums (and might even go to a concert) but wont know the ins and outs of who is who.

Back at that time we only had 4 terrestrial TV channels in the UK. Relatively few people had subscriptions for satellite channels so most people's musical awareness would have been radio or their weekly fix of Top of The Pops on BBC1. Pretty sure LB leaving wasn't really big news here so wouldn't have impacted on sales.

Could be wrong though.

[FuzzyPlum]

I'm one of those people who spent ages trying to work out who is who. Stevie was obviously the chap on the TITN back cover with the big bulging jeans. Couldn't work out which of the ladies was Christine and which was Lindsey.
In 1990 I was excited to watch a new music programme called Rock Steady on UK Channel 4 (the Fleetwood Mac episode might even have been the very first episode of this new show). I knew they had a new album coming out and Rock Steady was showcasing interviews with the band. I had to watch that programme with the sound off as it was past my bedtime. Having watched it with no sound I was very confused- couldn't understand why they had an additional person in the band. Lindsey seemed to look very different by then (Billy?).

People who watched MTV and music magazines may have been more savvy than me and known a bit more about band members. However, I don't think people who bought music magazines really represented the general Fleetwood Mac demographic by that time. Most of those who who went to Shake the Cage probably had no real awareness of who is who, though they might have been a bit perplexed as to why they didn't play Big Love.

[sue]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

I'm one of those people who spent ages trying to work out who is who. Stevie was obviously the chap on the TITN back cover with the big bulging jeans. Couldn't work out which of the ladies was Christine and which was Lindsey.
In 1990 I was excited to watch a new music programme called Rock Steady on UK Channel 4 (the Fleetwood Mac episode might even have been the very first episode of this new show). I knew they had a new album coming out and Rock Steady was showcasing interviews with the band. I had to watch that programme with the sound off as it was past my bedtime. Having watched it with no sound I was very confused- couldn't understand why they had an additional person in the band. Lindsey seemed to look very different by then (Billy?).

People who watched MTV and music magazines may have been more savvy than me and known a bit more about band members. However, I don't think people who bought music magazines really represented the general Fleetwood Mac demographic by that time. Most of those who who went to Shake the Cage probably had no real awareness of who is who, though they might have been a bit perplexed as to why they didn't play Big Love.

I remember seeing Little Lies on Top of the Pops (it only reached number 5 in the UK charts) October ‘87.
I’m sure there was no mention of Lindsey leaving..
I was a lapsed fan by 87, but I’m sure I’d remember that being announced.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by sue

I’m sure there was no mention of Lindsey leaving..
I was a lapsed fan by 87, but I’m sure I’d remember that being announced.

1982 was the last time they were a band, and not an orchestra. By 1987, they'd learned how to cover their tracks and lie.
"Let's dress Billy up like Lindsey, and no one will ever know".
And to be honest, for the Tango tour, we had the worst/ farthest seats in the house, and I wasn't sure if it was Lindsey or not.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I mean, less than two years after the last tour date by the Mason-Bramlett lineup, probably on a bill with REO Speedwagon and Pat Benatar, Fleetwood Mac was playing a sold-out arena tour with the Rumours lineup. If Fleetwood Mac is just a brand to most casual fans, then why would it matter who was in the band?

It would be interesting to know if Stevie had strong ticket sales on her 1994 Tour and if Mac had strong ticket sales in 94 and 95.
How strong was the marketing for these tours?

Say You Will Tour had good attendance in most markets, not strong like The Dance. Should Stevie be credited for the good SYW attendance?
She toured two years before SYW. Her sheds were best attended on TISL in her touring period of 2001-2012. The only better attendance was the Solo & Together Tour with Don.

[elle]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

1982 was the last time they were a band, and not an orchestra. By 1987, they'd learned how to cover their tracks and lie.
"Let's dress Billy up like Lindsey, and no one will ever know".
And to be honest, for the Tango tour, we had the worst/ farthest seats in the house, and I wasn't sure if it was Lindsey or not.

maybe it was your post about this that i've seen? not sure. just remember reading similar posts. either way, obviously you were a knowledgeable enough FM fan, yet unsure of what's happening.

[elle]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

It would be interesting to know if Stevie had strong ticket sales on her 1994 Tour and if Mac had strong ticket sales in 94 and 95.
How strong was the marketing for these tours?

Say You Will Tour had good attendance in most markets, not strong like The Dance. Should Stevie be credited for the good SYW attendance?
She toured two years before SYW. Her sheds were best attended on TISL in her touring period of 2001-2012. The only better attendance was the Solo & Together Tour with Don.

from what i've seen in 2000s, FM marketing is always barely half-baked.

that said, it is interesting to watch ebbs and flows of popularity, both FM and other bands. in 1992-93, everyone knew about the band with Don't Stop being omnipresent, yet nobody cared about seeing them or their various incarnations or members live. it was early 90s and grunge was huge. by mid 90s original grunge was blowing over, Kurt Cobain was dead, there was a second wave of grunge/post-grunge bands, and music was again moving on. with some alternative bands covering FM, and the hell freezing over, all of the sudden there was a fertile ground for the FM reunion. i remember seeing excerpts from the dance and the 1998 tour on tv we had going in the background. they were spotlighted at the grammys and brits. that's when i first started paying attention. when i first heard of Lindsey Buckingham. i remember boys in the room saying how the blonde used to be so hot. i was asking which blonde, there were two, and Christine looked much better than Stevie in those videos.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by elle

from what i've seen in 2000s, FM marketing is always barely half-baked.

I kid you not, I was in a Blimpie in 2004 and my soda cup had the grey and white graphic for the Say You Will Tour on it. The graphic read "An Evening With Fleetwood Mac: In Concert". I believe there were other bands on it too like Van Halen. May've been a vh1 camapign.
I can't recall the commercials or my tickets saying Say You Will Tour on them just An Evening With.