Pre-Rumours MacNuggets - Page 20

LesPaul7 · #**286** 08-09-2014, 08:17 PM

Or was it indeed done after Boston 1970? The videos say that clip w/ Spencer was from 1969.

BklynBlue · #**287** 08-10-2014, 04:44 PM

The performance used on “The Original Fleetwood Mac” compilation video was most likely taped in early December, 1969, for a public access television show in Detroit. The band was there to play two nights at the East Town Theater with the Buddy Miles Express.

That would rule out the Boston Tea Party recordings for the source. More than likely they were going through the motions to a playback of the single. Problem was, the mikes in the studio were live, so Green’s voice is picked up, causing a slight “echo” on the vocal (guess he couldn’t / wouldn’t just mouth the words), which in fairness probably would have looked even worse.

lazy poker · #**288** 08-11-2014, 05:38 AM

the debate about the audio source used for the video in question shouldn't really be one.

first of all: you don't have to be a musician to notice that the guitars are not even plugged in - no cables at all! and these were the days long before any wireless systems were available. and although congas are clearly audible, nobody's playing 'em in the video. this confirms that the band is only miming to a playback.

secondly: just one comparison of the video sound with the "tea party" version makes clear that it's one and the same audio source. in the first few seconds of the song peter plays 3 consecutive bum notes - exactly the same ones he played in the boston version. next, the vocals during the first acappella break reveal the very same unevenness in levels - absolutely. such things are virtually impossible to be exactly repeated a second time. and there's not even an additional live vocal to be heard. it's ALL just mimed - nothing more.

so, you don't have to go any further than that to have the answer: there's definitely no doubt about the fact that the band mimed to the "boston tea party" playback for this video.

and, yes: i very much would've preferred the "monster mash" sequence of this song in the video compilation. one can only hope for a revised/updated/remastered version on dvd before we're all dead and gone . . .

martin

BklynBlue · #**289** 08-11-2014, 10:55 AM

While we can all agree that it is painfully obvious that they are miming the performances (on the video for ‘Rattlesnake Shake’ some smart-ass at the station actually put the words “Why isn’t this man drumming?’ over one of the shots where Fleetwood motions playing while coming nowhere near the skins or cymbals) there is no way that they were using the “Boston Tea Party” tapes for the source –

Logistically, and chronologically, it makes no sense: the show was filmed in Detroit around the time cited above, and those shows were prior to the ones in Boston – the bare-bones production would indicate that they would not (most likely, could not) have removed the audience’s cheers and sounds from the track and most importantly, if you watch the entire clip, after they have finished “playing”, you can hear the opening notes of ‘Oh Well, Pt. 2’.

The playback is the original studio recording

LesPaul7 · #**290** 08-11-2014, 12:27 PM

So originally they mimed to the studio version of Oh Well and on the DVD the Boston version was dubbed in?

How about for Rattlesnake Shake from the Playboy Mansion? It is different from the studio version. For some reason I thought this to be pre-recorded for the show.

lazy poker · #**291** 08-11-2014, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BklynBlue

While we can all agree that it is painfully obvious that they are miming the performances (on the video for ‘Rattlesnake Shake’ some smart-ass at the station actually put the words “Why isn’t this man drumming?’ over one of the shots where Fleetwood motions playing while coming nowhere near the skins or cymbals) there is no way that they were using the “Boston Tea Party” tapes for the source –

Logistically, and chronologically, it makes no sense: the show was filmed in Detroit around the time cited above, and those shows were prior to the ones in Boston – the bare-bones production would indicate that they would not (most likely, could not) have removed the audience’s cheers and sounds from the track and most importantly, if you watch the entire clip, after they have finished “playing”, you can hear the opening notes of ‘Oh Well, Pt. 2’.

The playback is the original studio recording

hi, bklynblue!
seems we're talkin' about two different kettle of fish here. i was referring to this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBU0ilZLQvI
and this audio is definitely the "boston tea party" version. please correct me if i'm wrong, but i think this vid is the topic of discussion. i'd appreciate very much, if you could post a link to the version you're talking about.

wetcamelfood · #**292** 08-11-2014, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesPaul7

How about for Rattlesnake Shake from the Playboy Mansion? It is different from the studio version. For some reason I thought this to be pre-recorded for the show.

That was performed live.

John

wetcamelfood · #**293** 08-11-2014, 04:15 PM

Re: Oh Well - I think LesPaul7 hit the mail on the head, originally they mimed to the studio version of Oh Well and on the DVD the Boston version was dubbed in.

John

BklynBlue · #**294** 08-11-2014, 04:49 PM

LazyPoker,
Well, as Alice once said, “Curiouser and curiouser…” as with so many things related to the Green era Fleetwood Mac, it seems we have once again fallen down a rabbit hole –

All the clips that I have been able to find on YouTube do, as you say, feature the Boston Tea Party audio – this includes, the one used on “The Early Years” compilation released by Castle Communications – you can see the compilation in full here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT_Sf-ARrBY (‘Oh Well’ begins around 40:55)

However, (there is always a however with these things, isn’t there…) I have a version on DVD which I received in a trade long ago on which the backing track is the original studio recording – the video is identical accept that it runs just a little bit longer after the number has stopped, and you hear the opening of “Pt. 2”.

It is my belief (your mileage my vary and I am very interested in what other people may think) that when the show was originally broadcast, it was done to the studio recording – again, the show was taped before the Boston Tea Party shows – when Castle Communications put together their compilation, they substituted the Tea Party recording because the Warner Brothers legal department told them they could not use the original song – another reason they dropped the “performance” of ‘Rattlesnake Shake’ from that show.

All of the other songs on the video compilation are either live, (thus unique and not "owned" by the label or from the Blue Horizon catalog, and God only knows who has the rights to those songs, so Castle Communications felt safe with those.

That said, I now have to figure out if the version of ‘The Green Manalishi’ used to end of the compilation is in any way unique or live (most likely) as the same restrictions would have applied…

Les Paul,
I have to go back to listen, but I would believe that for “Playboy After Dark” they did prerecord the numbers as that would have been standard practice for any television show at that time – but please don’t quote me on this until I have looked into it further - let's see if we can get to the bottom on one mystery first, before moving on to the others...

lazy poker · #**295** 08-11-2014, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BklynBlue

LazyPoker,
Well, as Alice once said, “Curiouser and curiouser…” as with so many things related to the Green era Fleetwood Mac, it seems we have once again fallen down a rabbit hole –

All the clips that I have been able to find on YouTube do, as you say, feature the Boston Tea Party audio – this includes, the one used on “The Early Years” compilation released by Castle Communications – you can see the compilation in full here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT_Sf-ARrBY (‘Oh Well’ begins around 40:55)

However, (there is always a however with these things, isn’t there…) I have a version on DVD which I received in a trade long ago on which the backing track is the original studio recording – the video is identical accept that it runs just a little bit longer after the number has stopped, and you hear the opening of “Pt. 2”.

It is my belief (your mileage my vary and I am very interested in what other people may think) that when the show was originally broadcast, it was done to the studio recording – again, the show was taped before the Boston Tea Party shows – when Castle Communications put together their compilation, they substituted the Tea Party recording because the Warner Brothers legal department told them they could not use the original song – another reason they dropped the “performance” of ‘Rattlesnake Shake’ from that show.

. . . so we happily sorted this one out - thanxalot, bklynblue, for enlightenment! of course, i have a copy of the "early years", but i never saw this very same footage with the studio version audio, which is, as you say, nowhere to be found on the net. so, hopefully it's easy to understand my initial confusion on this matter. but now (on the grounds of the legal background info, to boot) i can see your point.
on to the next mystery . . .

wetcamelfood · #**296** 08-11-2014, 05:47 PM

Re: Rattlesnake - Yeah I say "live" but I just meant unique to that video whether it be prerecorded or whatever.

John

becca · #**297** 08-12-2014, 08:09 PM

Not to add to any confusion, but I know sometimes people performed live vocals to studio backing tracks, including those used on the vinyl release. Sometimes they would perform to partial studio backing recordings (for example when the Hollies hit the steel drum break on Carrie Anne, they weren't going to be able to have a specialized steel drummer along never mind properly miked). Almost any combination you can imagine might have occurred somewhere. For radio appearances there was some musicians union technicality that made a percentage of the content have to be 'new' performances, and this is why there are so many BBC radio and Peel session collections around these days, although so often they are really not very different from the commercially released version at the time.

sharksfan2000 · #**298** 08-12-2014, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

Re: Rattlesnake - Yeah I say "live" but I just meant unique to that video whether it be prerecorded or whatever.

John

I don't have any doubt that the "Rattlesnake Shake" Playboy After Dark performance is live. No question at all that the vocals are live, and they have their speaker cabinets up on stage with them - why would they haul them up there if they were playing to a pre-recorded instrumental track? Plus the performance is loose enough that I don't think they would have gone with it for a taped backing track.

Check out other Playboy After Dark clips on YouTube (The Byrds for example, an early performance with Clarence White in the band), and I think you'll see that these are truly live performances from that show.

LesPaul7 · #**299** 08-13-2014, 10:16 AM

"In one of Fleetwood Mac's weirder promotional assignments, the group pre-records an insert for Hugh Hefner's syndicated TV show Playboy After Dark (show No. 37) at CBS Television City in Los Angeles. .....Fleetwood Mac rock their way through 'Rattlesnake Shake'. Green sings live while the band mimes to a pre-recorded backing track (different from the original recording) and it looks as if he's enjoying every minute of it." - Strange Brew by Christopher Hjort

Not sure what to make of it because it looks like the guys are playing, especially Fleetwood. That comedian did put his head next to a Fender amp, which doesn't make sense, so maybe they weren't on.

sharksfan2000 · #**300** 08-13-2014, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesPaul7

"In one of Fleetwood Mac's weirder promotional assignments, the group pre-records an insert for Hugh Hefner's syndicated TV show Playboy After Dark (show No. 37) at CBS Television City in Los Angeles. .....Fleetwood Mac rock their way through 'Rattlesnake Shake'. Green sings live while the band mimes to a pre-recorded backing track (different from the original recording) and it looks as if he's enjoying every minute of it." - Strange Brew by Christopher Hjort

Not sure what to make of it because it looks like the guys are playing, especially Fleetwood. That comedian did put his head next to a Fender amp, which doesn't make sense, so maybe they weren't on.

Thanks for looking that up in Hjort's book, LesPaul...I was going to do that but got lazy

Still looks to me like it's live - if it isn't, they're doing the best job of miming to a pre-recorded track that I think I've ever seen. I imagine the amps (if they were on) had to have been set pretty low - certainly not to "11".