Proposition 8 passes in California

DavidMn · #1 11-06-2008, 04:46 AM

This has me so worked up! Its unbelieveable to me that as a law abiding citizen of the United States of America I cannot by law choose to marry someone cimply because they are the same sex as I am.

There's no other way to put this, IT MAKES NO SENSE and I'm damn pissed off by it! I was happy about what happened Tuesday, but there's still a long way to go believe me!

I also heard that the marriages already performed there may be challenged in court as not valid.

shackin'up · #2 11-06-2008, 05:05 AM

It's ridiculous, Dave. It's a complete nobrainer.
Move to the Netherlands, you can marry anyone you love!

As a principle, this should be a common human right. On the other hand: who wants to marry anyway....? I love my girl to death, but marrying her? what's the point? We are happy together for 18 years. Unmarried.

DavidMn · #3 11-06-2008, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shackin'up

It's ridiculous, Dave. It's a complete nobrainer.
Move to the Netherlands, you can marry anyone you love!

As a principle, this should be a common human right. On the other hand: who wants to marry anyway....? I love my girl to death, but marrying her? what's the point? We are happy together for 18 years. Unmarried.

You know what Gerald, you make a very good point. Even though I'm currently single, when I was with my ex Derek for 3 years the thing that mattered most to me was how I felt about him which is something no amendment or anything else can take from me no matter what!

**mylittledemon** · #4 11-06-2008, 08:20 AM

This is such a touchy subject. Until the definition of marriage gets changed, nothing is going to change. Not only that, BUT, it's always going to come up as a vote...and if even the Californians have voted it down..? Makes you wonder.

strandinthewind · #5 11-06-2008, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

This is such a touchy subject. Until the definition of marriage gets changed, nothing is going to change. Not only that, BUT, it's always going to come up as a vote...and if even the Californians have voted it down..? Makes you wonder.

I do not get how it is touchy. Looking at the situation objectively, the only issue is the religious people in the US want automatic legal rights for themselves and not other people who go against their religion.

Again, I have yet to hear one reason other than the religious argument against same sex marriage.

But and despite the clear mandate for the separation of church and state in the US Const. -- people are loathe to admit that they are forcing their religion down peoples' throats.

Put it this way, the majority of blacks and hispanics in this country (and likely many whites and Muslims) set aside their religious objections to abortion to vote for Obama. Yet, these same people hypocrticially stood on alleged piety and voted to ban gay marriage. Makes you wonder doesn't it?

chiliD · #6 11-06-2008, 09:34 AM

Let the litigation begin. I believe Prop 8 will be overturned in the courts...just like Prop 22 was after the last election.

estranged4life · #7 11-06-2008, 10:14 AM

surprised that it passed to tell ya the truth, being that Californ-ie supposedly is the hotbed for 'liberalism'...Seems something's amiss on this vote if ya ask me.

I have, and will always, take my Mom's point of view and that is "unless someone is actually sleeping with you, it is NONE of your business what their sexual preference is - so who gives you the right to keep them from enjoying a happily married life? If you find someone to love and grow old with, isnt that what we all want? Mind your own business and allow gays/lesbians to marry..." - I think the citizens of this country should adhere to my Mom's words.

Brian "My Mom was asked once about her thoughts on lesbianism, and her reply was "I could easily be a lesbian, since most men are cheating, wife-beating scumbags...But I would have to give up the d*ck, can't do that" - I proceeded to spit my soda out on my windshield with her reply" j.

cratesok6 · #8 11-06-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiliD

Let the litigation begin. I believe Prop 8 will be overturned in the courts...just like Prop 22 was after the last election.

The litigation process has already started. This is the 2nd or maybe 3rd time this initiative has been voted on in CA. over past few years.

**mylittledemon** · #9 11-06-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I do not get how it is touchy. Looking at the situation objectively, the only issue is the religious people in the US want automatic legal rights for themselves and not other people who go against their religion.

Again, I have yet to hear one reason other than the religious argument against same sex marriage.

But and despite the clear mandate for the separation of church and state in the US Const. -- people are loathe to admit that they are forcing their religion down peoples' throats.

Put it this way, the majority of blacks and hispanics in this country (and likely many whites and Muslims) set aside their religious objections to abortion to vote for Obama. Yet, these same people hypocrticially stood on alleged piety and voted to ban gay marriage. Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Well you're deluded, that's why you dont get why it's touchy (big wink!)

haha...you forget that you can still get married in this country with no "religious" aspect to your wedding or the ceremony officiant...

No the abortion/gay marriage thing doesnt make me wonder. It's all part of what I was saying in another thread that America seemingly has gone down a path of making the wrong choices. We continue to do so. I think sometimes we take our freedom for granted. Freedom in America doesn't necessarily mean "anything goes."

BTFLCHLD · #10 11-06-2008, 11:10 AM

David, wouldn't a thread inclusive of the Arizona and Florida bans on same-sex marriage be apropos or are you are you just focusing on California's PROP8?

strandinthewind · #11 11-06-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

. . . haha...you forget that you can still get married in this country with no "religious" aspect to your wedding or the ceremony officiant . . . .

Well, no. Same Sex couples cannot do that. Without the ability to do that, same sex couples are ineligible for the legal rights automatically accorded hetero couples regarless of whether the hetero couple is married in a religious ceremony.

Moreover, same sex couples cannot contract into many of the rights automatically given to hetero couples.

Can't you see that is unfair and, more to the point, it is promoting religion as law, i.e., the establishment of a theocracy. That is just fukced up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

No the abortion/gay marriage thing doesnt make me wonder. It's all part of what I was saying in another thread that America seemingly has gone down a path of making the wrong choices. We continue to do so. I think sometimes we take our freedom for granted.

I think the "path of wrong choices" is cramming reilgious ideals down the throats of all Americans. There is no law that says you have to have any religious faith to be entitled to the protection of the law or even a good American citizen. We all pay the same taxes - so why shouldn't we all get the same legal protections? Again, that is just fukced up.

I do not think you would like it if the govt. made you do cr*p based on someone else's ideals or beliefs that you did not believe in

Yet, most cannot see that from any angle other than their own and most are in the power in charge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Freedom in America doesn't necessarily mean "anything goes."

No - freedom in America means be a Christian or be a second class citizen and take and be happy with the scraps of liberty the Christians offer you

That's just fukced up

The black community got over this same prejudice by rioting in the streets, save for MLK, who encouraged peaceful protest

In the end, I have yet to hear of one non religious reason why hetero married people should get special rights.

Richard B · #12 11-06-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

David, wouldn't a thread inclusive of the Arizona and Florida bans on same-sex marriage be apropos or are you are you just focusing on California's PROP8?

I thought the very same thing. It's just not California.
Also, this is not the first time this has been put up to vote. 4 years ago the voters of California stopped same sex "marriage."

Gay couples have all the same rights, they just can't use the word "marriage." Personally, I could care less who anyone marries, including other forbidden taboos, such as cousins, siblings and polygamists. Equality for all.

BTFLCHLD · #13 11-06-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

The black community got over this same prejudice by rioting in the streets, save for MLK, who encouraged peaceful protest

Curiously, CNN's reporting "supporters of same-sex marriage may have been hurt by the enthusiastic turnout among African-Americans for president-elect Barack Obama. CNN exit polls found black voters affirming Proposition 8 by a 70-to-30 margin. Whites and Latinos, however, were nearly evenly split."

Obviously, I am among many to find interesting that Barack wins by landslide, yet there is the conservative vote on other issues.

OT - When I watched Barack's acceptance speech, his walk along the stage and his exit, I noticed his shoulders...he now carries the loaded weight of americans hopes/dreams/expectations for the future...he is 'just a man' and, as he said, he will need the continued support/loyalty of those he carries to back him, his policies, etc.

strandinthewind · #14 11-06-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard B

I thought the very same thing. It's just not California.
Also, this is not the first time this has been put up to vote. 4 years ago the voters of California stopped same sex "marriage."

Gay couples have all the same rights, they just can't use the word "marriage." Personally, I could care less who anyone marries, including other forbidden taboos, such as cousins, siblings and polygamists. Equality for all.

That is just not so, though the California civil unions go, I believe, way further than most states' civil unions.

As for the comparison to "cousins, siblings and polygamists" - give me a break regarding the first two as there are medical reasons for prohibiting that. As for polygamists - I could care a less, though there is empirical evidence showing women are abused in many of these relationships - somewhat negating the consenual aspect of the relationship.