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  #76  
Old 08-07-2018, 01:10 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Way to give up the high ground.
I was thinking to myself. If he is under contract not to say anything, I wonder if that includes her too. Stuff like that can be very damaging.
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  #77  
Old 08-07-2018, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
This is essentially what I think, too, although I think the "unhappiness" Stevie was trying to remove from her life by removing Lindsey wasn't so much about his Greatest Hits touring dissatisfaction, but rather about the fact that he was the one man in her life who didn't always say "Yes, Stevie." She has surrounded herself with employees and people she can control and he was the only one who refused to back down.

Was he always in the right when they argued? No, I'm sure he wasn't. I'm sure he could be a pain at times. However, instead of dealing with conflict and even drawing strength from it like she used to, instead of maturely recognizing that occasionally she is the one in the wrong and everything isn't always Lindsey's fault, Stevie removed him in order to live in a soft word of sycophancy. Now she can "dance around the apartment" surrounded by those who will tell her only what she wants to hear. If that meant devastating Lindsey, then so be it. Only her happiness matters.

Another reason I think that this was all triggered by Tom's death is that as recently as the Classic Concerts in July 2017, Stevie was talking about how proud she was that Fleetwood Mac still had all 5 members from the Rumours era in it. Why explicitly say that is a point of pride if she was plotting to destroy it? Tom's death messed with her head.

But there's no question that she had Mike Campbell in the back pocket, so whatever happened at MusiCares that brought this to a head, whatever Lindsey said or did (such as arguing for a concurrent tour)... Stevie was ready for it. Thus, by that point, she must have been thinking about breaking up the Rumours 5.

Speculation: Since Tom's death, she had been thinking about how stressful this tour would be with Lindsey, thinking about how nice it would par be if he simply weren't a part of it and someone like her friend Mike Campbell was... and thinking about scenarios where she could make that happen.

I don't know if all this awful scenario was triggered by Tom's death. To me that's just a way of justifying what she did. I think she has been planning this for a long time and his death was the perfect excuse. I'm sad so I can't do whatever I want. No, Stevie, you can't.

But I agree with you about removing Lindsey from her life because he was not part of her "yes people" team. Well, if that makes her 100% happy and she's gonna stop talking about a married man as if he was still her 17 year old boyfriend, and she has the power to do it (which she obviously has), who am I to tell her anything? Problem is, I don't think it's gonna make her 100% happy and she's not gonna stop talking about him. And that makes what she did even sadder.
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- Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.

Last edited by button-lip : 08-07-2018 at 06:05 PM.
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  #78  
Old 08-07-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
I was thinking to myself. If he is under contract not to say anything, I wonder if that includes her too. Stuff like that can be very damaging.
Kristen's previous comments debunking the band's story and essentially calling them liars have been shared all over the internet. If the lawyers were going to say something, they would have done so already, I imagine.

Interestingly, Frederico Pol, who was the only member of Lindsey's or Fleetwood Mac's backing bands to make any kind of public statement about Lindsey's treatment, is now backpedaling on social media somewhat and urging everyone to "love all the folks in the Mac" even if we are "disappointed in their choices." When I saw that, I wondered if there were some kind of communication from Lindsey about cooling off any social media negativity now that he's going on tour.

Apparently not.

Still, I can't blame her for venting her frustration. Perhaps doing so with a bit less... color would have been better.
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Last edited by sodascouts : 08-07-2018 at 02:56 PM.
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  #79  
Old 08-07-2018, 01:48 PM
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Yet so cavalier about someone who was allegedly a friend, bailed this guys a$$ out of a jam more times than any of us could count.
How exactly did he bail them out? He’d been dropped when they asked him to join and bombed as a solo artist after he quit. He needed them as much as he needed them.
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  #80  
Old 08-07-2018, 01:51 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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How exactly did he bail them out? He’d been dropped when they asked him to join and bombed as a solo artist after he quit. He needed them as much as he needed them.
Which has been the norm in this band. Each force has propelled the other. Speaking in terms of the Rumours' incarnation.

The Dance was the best thing that could have happened for either party.
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  #81  
Old 08-07-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
Which has been the norm in this band. Each force has propelled the other. Speaking in terms of the Rumours' incarnation.

The Dance was the best thing that could have happened for either party.
I don’t disagree. And Stevie, too. They all needed it. Nobody “bailed” anyone out.
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  #82  
Old 08-07-2018, 02:29 PM
Storms123 Storms123 is offline
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I don’t disagree. And Stevie, too. They all needed it. Nobody “bailed” anyone out.
I totally agree The Dance was critical to the resurgence of this band, however where I will respectfully disagree is on “bailing” out, and maybe that’s not the best way to phrase, but given how Lindsey put solo efforts on hold for the good of the band (SYW) and how he managed to pull albums together while one or more of his band mates were physically incapable of being there deserves kudos, imo
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  #83  
Old 08-07-2018, 02:40 PM
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How exactly did he bail them out? He needed them as much as they needed him.
For fame and fortune, yes. But for getting an album made and out the door, no. There would have have been no Tango in the Night had it not been for him making it. Christine wasn't going to do it. And Tango's commercial success bailed out the whole band.

I think this whole fascinating saga of the firing will be revealed officially some day, and it will include just about everything you guys are saying. Many astute points being made in this thread. I think that saga will also include revealing info about the Buckingham McVie album and tour:
  • Did Mick turn against the project after seeing sales were low for what was aurally a Fleetwood Mac album?
  • Did Stevie turn against the project out of jealousy?
  • Did the tour and the press rub some band members the wrong way? Did Christine's positive, joyous response to the project rub some band members the wrong way?

I think that project played a serious part in the firing saga in an emotional and possibly even a logistical sense. Lindsey and Chris may have even been hoping that by touring behind new music and doing it onstage, it may have sparked a sense of "OK, let's do it" in Stevie. And when it didn't, who knows how things turned south emotionally?
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Last edited by David : 08-07-2018 at 02:43 PM.
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  #84  
Old 08-07-2018, 02:44 PM
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but given how Lindsey put solo efforts on hold for the good of the band (SYW)
Nope. Not giving him that one. That album was recorded in a way that gave it durablity as to how it could be released, which he probably felt could be an issue given the changes at Warner Bros. However, the album was largely completed prior to 1997, so how it was released was his call, not theirs. He chose to wait and make it a Fleetwood Mac album.
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  #85  
Old 08-07-2018, 03:24 PM
jwd jwd is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Way to give up the high ground.

I'd say she's still on a lot higher ground than Mick & Co., by a LANDSLIDE!
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  #86  
Old 08-07-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
Kristen's previous comments debunking the band's story and essentially calling them liars have been shared all over the internet. If the lawyers were going to say something, they would have done so already, I imagine.

Interestingly, Frederico Pol, who was the only member of Lindsey's or Fleetwood Mac's backing bands to make any kind of public statement about Lindsey's treatment, is now backpedaling on social media somewhat and urging everyone to "love all the folks in the Mac" even if we are "disappointed in their choices." When I saw that, I wondered if there were some kind of communication from Lindsey about cooling off any social media negativity now that he's going on tour.

Apparently not.

Still, I can't blame her for venting her frustration. Perhaps doing so with a bit less... color would have been better.

Fleetwood Mac is a big money making machine for a lot of people, not just the members in the band. People that wield a lot more power than Mick or Stevie. He was probably contacted and given some "friendly advice".
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  #87  
Old 08-07-2018, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by David View Post
For fame and fortune, yes. But for getting an album made and out the door, no. There would have have been no Tango in the Night had it not been for him making it. Christine wasn't going to do it. And Tango's commercial success bailed out the whole band.

I think this whole fascinating saga of the firing will be revealed officially some day, and it will include just about everything you guys are saying. Many astute points being made in this thread. I think that saga will also include revealing info about the Buckingham McVie album and tour:
  • Did Mick turn against the project after seeing sales were low for what was aurally a Fleetwood Mac album?
  • Did Stevie turn against the project out of jealousy?
  • Did the tour and the press rub some band members the wrong way? Did Christine's positive, joyous response to the project rub some band members the wrong way?

I think that project played a serious part in the firing saga in an emotional and possibly even a logistical sense. Lindsey and Chris may have even been hoping that by touring behind new music and doing it onstage, it may have sparked a sense of "OK, let's do it" in Stevie. And when it didn't, who knows how things turned south emotionally?
DING DING DING
We have a winner.
Bingo.

I don't agree with all 3 of your premises but 100% agree with the fact the Buckingham/McVie project indirectly led to Lindsey's firing. The album did ok and probably better than expected so I don't think Mick was upset with the project. However, the project did change the chemistry of the band. I would bet my life if the band waited for Stevie to finish her never ending solo tour without doing any projects, Stevie would have sucked it up and moved on. I don't think the jealousy is directed at Christine but Lindsey. How dare he work with the band without me!!!!!!!

I hate to say "TOLD YA SO" but this time last year there was a debate on this board was it really a Fleetwood Mac record? Many Stevie supporters thought it was a crazy idea to say or think the band went out of their way to not call the project a Fleetwood Mac album (even though they all played on it).
YOU SEE NOW. The band knows and knew her mindset with Lindsey working with the band without her. They walked on egg shells but that was not enough. Soon enough Stevie drew the line....its Lindsey or me. Mick takes the heat and protects Stevie with this decision. I, like you see right through it. The Buckingham/McVie project killed Fleetwood Mac. Not calling it a Fleetwood Mac album was NOT enough. How dare they make an album that I refuse to be part of (as she walked down the long hallway)!
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Last edited by Macfan4life : 08-07-2018 at 04:07 PM.
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  #88  
Old 08-07-2018, 04:19 PM
Angel75 Angel75 is offline
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Way to give up the high ground.
Yeah I tend to agree with you. Although I certainly think MF is a money lovin' MF...it's true....saying it on social media was definitely not classy and a bit cringy, she could have easily made her point without swearing. Id be surprised if Lindsey was pleased about that.
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  #89  
Old 08-07-2018, 04:39 PM
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For fame and fortune, yes. But for getting an album made and out the door, no. There would have have been no Tango in the Night had it not been for him making it.
Sure, but would he have had a top five hit or made nearly as much money without the Fleetwood Mac brand? Probably not, using his prior two and one subsequent albums as examples.

The one possibility regarding your list that I’d add: Did Lindsey became insufferable (to them) after the album came out? Because, he seemed to be especially on an ego trip during some of the press (especially re: TITN).
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  #90  
Old 08-07-2018, 05:02 PM
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Frankly, this is all sad. Stevie didn't want Lindsey in the band anymore and Mick went along with it. Business decision, simple as that. I am sure the band and its management have disappointment in the negative response and the less than anticipated ticket sales volume, but it is still significantly more than a Stevieless band would have garnered.

My sadness is ultimately this is our final snapshot of a band that was truly a sophisticated combination of poetry and symphony for all generations.
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