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  #46  
Old 06-26-2018, 01:27 PM
sands of time sands of time is offline
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Originally Posted by secret love View Post
Apparently whingeing about Lindsey (oh the injustice that someone who didn't want to work/tour full time [no solo in between] got fired!) and bitching about Mick ("What an a$$hole!") is perfectly fine in the Rumours forum. However, actually talking about the current line up of Fleetwood Mac which contains 4/5 Rumours members just like the Say You Will line up - just that instead of back up guitarists and singers they have Mike and Neil - is verboten. Instead these discussions have been relegated to the Post-Rumours forum.

Is this fair?
Yes. Yes it is.
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  #47  
Old 06-26-2018, 07:23 PM
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  #48  
Old 06-26-2018, 10:01 PM
KenshiMaster16 KenshiMaster16 is offline
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Like Phil Collins, it'd be hilarious if say in 5-10 years, Lindsey rejoins cause this era flops and they call it the We're Not Dead Yet, Either Tour lol
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  #49  
Old 06-26-2018, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by KenshiMaster16 View Post
Like Phil Collins, it'd be hilarious if say in 5-10 years, Lindsey rejoins cause this era flops and they call it the We're Not Dead Yet, Either Tour lol
In 10 years, SOMEONE will be dead.
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  #50  
Old 06-27-2018, 12:47 AM
BombaySapphire3 BombaySapphire3 is offline
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In 10 years, SOMEONE will be dead.
More likely 2 or 3 ..but if we're still around I am sure ticket prices for a Nicks solo show in her ribbon and bow bedecked wheelchair may have dropped a bit.
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  #51  
Old 06-27-2018, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
No it's not a correction. I'm sorry if it came off like that. You can really hear the transformations in some of Stevie's Rumours songs when you listen to early takes. Gold Dust Woman for example started off one way and ended up quite another. Dreams didn't really undergo the same transformation. It was pretty much the same from where it started to where it ended up.
The melody and chords from the demo to Dreams remain in tact. But that’s it. Clocking in at well over the four minute mark, the song would have been tedious if a creative arrangement had not bolstered it. Christine has spoken openly about how much Lindsey was able to extract from the same three chords. His hand on the production is so strong here that if he had done it in 2017 he’d have wanted co-composition credit, which, for the record, I think is wrong but still in line with the point many are making about his vision enabling even the barest of demos to be transformed into something fully realized and orchestrated.

A good contrast with this is “Edge of Seventeen,” a great, driving song in need of a more imaginative arrangement that will sustain its many repetitions and length. Lindsey could have done wonders with that.

Last edited by aleuzzi : 06-27-2018 at 09:21 AM.
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  #52  
Old 06-27-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3 View Post
More likely 2 or 3 ..but if we're still around I am sure ticket prices for a Nicks solo show in her ribbon and bow bedecked wheelchair may have dropped a bit.
Hopefully she'll still have her turkey waddle stapled back.
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  #53  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:33 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
The melody and chords from the demo to Dreams remain in tact. But that’s it. Clocking in at well over the four minute mark, the song would have been tedious if a creative arrangement had not bolstered it. Christine has spoken openly about how much Lindsey was able to extract from the same three chords. His hand on the production is so strong here that if he had done it in 2017 he’d have wanted co-composition credit, which, for the record, I think is wrong but still in line with the point many are making about his vision enabling even the barest of demos to be transformed into something fully realized and orchestrated.

A good contrast with this is “Edge of Seventeen,” a great, driving song in need of a more imaginative arrangement that will sustain its many repetitions and length. Lindsey could have done wonders with that.
The beauty is in arranging her raw material, which can be quite boring. And then she sang it beautifully on the record. Live.. ehhh not so much..
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  #54  
Old 06-27-2018, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
The beauty is in arranging her raw material, which can be quite boring. And then she sang it beautifully on the record. Live.. ehhh not so much..
Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks this song is such a dud live, even without the factor of it being overplayed. Should've been retired after the Rumours or Tusk tour.
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  #55  
Old 06-27-2018, 03:24 PM
secret love secret love is offline
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Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
The melody and chords from the demo to Dreams remain in tact. But that’s it. Clocking in at well over the four minute mark, the song would have been tedious if a creative arrangement had not bolstered it. Christine has spoken openly about how much Lindsey was able to extract from the same three chords. His hand on the production is so strong here that if he had done it in 2017 he’d have wanted co-composition credit, which, for the record, I think is wrong but still in line with the point many are making about his vision enabling even the barest of demos to be transformed into something fully realized and orchestrated.

A good contrast with this is “Edge of Seventeen,” a great, driving song in need of a more imaginative arrangement that will sustain its many repetitions and length. Lindsey could have done wonders with that.
Waddy doesn't arrange?
There is no doubt that Lindsey turned Dreams from okay to great. Three chords: F, G, Am7. That was it. Played simply on my keyboard at home, it is a proper dud. On Rumours it is a gem. Started to lose its shine live around 1983. Now it's a piece of hard plastic crap. She was right to ditch it from the 24KG tour and I was disappointed after seeing her in Sacramento that she had brought Dreams back in when I saw her in Sydney. And had the hide to act like bringing it back was doing us a favour.
I feel some empathy for Stevie I must admit. I also write songs and I am the same as her, I write chords and basic melodies. I rely on my producers to arrange them. I am always very appreciative when they come up with better arrangements. I don't know that Stevie is.
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  #56  
Old 06-27-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by secret love View Post
Waddy doesn't arrange?
There is no doubt that Lindsey turned Dreams from okay to great. Three chords: F, G, Am7. That was it. Played simply on my keyboard at home, it is a proper dud. On Rumours it is a gem. Started to lose its shine live around 1983. Now it's a piece of hard plastic crap. She was right to ditch it from the 24KG tour and I was disappointed after seeing her in Sacramento that she had brought Dreams back in when I saw her in Sydney. And had the hide to act like bringing it back was doing us a favour.
I feel some empathy for Stevie I must admit. I also write songs and I am the same as her, I write chords and basic melodies. I rely on my producers to arrange them. I am always very appreciative when they come up with better arrangements. I don't know that Stevie is.
Waddy wouldn't have likely arranged "edge"--Jimmy Iovine would have. Or, possibly, they would have worked on it together. But the end result is not terribly imaginative. It's quite a literal interpretation of a basic riff repeated again and again without much sonic variation underneath or over it to provide great contrast. For what it's worth, some of Christine's solo songs have similar problems. "Liar" is another great, hard, driving tune. But it, like
"Edge" has so many repetitions without much variation in the supporting instrumentation. Lindsey was great with songs like this.

Admittedly, sometimes his "vision" takes away something from the magic of the demo, but songs like Gypsy and Dreams--well, they wouldn't be anything memorable without him.
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  #57  
Old 06-29-2018, 04:55 PM
Buster Buster is offline
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
Truest words ever written.

I've always thought he was a spoiled brat, BUT, his genius is what made them what they are. They'd be a f*cking footnote in history had Mick not asked him to join.

And Stevie = GENIUS??? NO ONE has ever uttered those ridiculous words.
Right - Stevie gave us Dreams, GTW, Landslide, Rhiannon, SOTM, BD album just to name a few but it’s the man who is the genius. Speak for yourself.
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  #58  
Old 06-29-2018, 06:34 PM
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Right - Stevie gave us Dreams, GTW, Landslide, Rhiannon, SOTM, BD album just to name a few but it’s the man who is the genius. Speak for yourself.
Even Stevie acknowledges the role those guys played in her music. Their gender is inconsequential.

However, I think Lindsey gives himself a little too much credit at times. “Rhiannon” and “Crystal” come to mind. The Buckingham Nicks versions pale in comparison to what Mick, John, and Christine brought to those songs. Being a genius in the studio only works if you have the right people.
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  #59  
Old 06-29-2018, 10:38 PM
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Right - Stevie gave us Dreams, GTW, Landslide, Rhiannon, SOTM, BD album just to name a few but it’s the man who is the genius. Speak for yourself.
You should just block me. PLEASE block me. You obviously have huge issues with me, so please just block me, because I'm sick to death of you ranting at me.
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  #60  
Old 06-30-2018, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Being a genius in the studio only works if you have the right people.
Truer words have never been spoke.

But I have to cavil with some of the earlier opinions that "Dreams" would be nothing without Fleetwood Mac's recording (which I love). "Dreams" is an excellent lyric: tight, cynical, ironic, sly, but also a passionate little narrative. If I didn't know Stevie wrote it, I'd never in a hundred years think she wrote it. It's more like Elvis Costello, post Angry Young Man. (It has a lot of the same sly push of "Kid About It" or "King of Confidence." I don't think "Dreams" has been given due appreciation by fans as a lyric. Sometimes I wonder whether people really perceive all the subtext in the song, or the way that it scans so beautifully with little cocky statements embedded at the end of lines. It should be studied more closely. Mick's kick+snare and John's bass are deliberately recorded to simulate the steady heartbeat of regret and warning. It really is a beautiful track, overflowing with the craftsmanship and ideas that Fleetwood Mac was renowned for.

It's Stevie's best song, by far, and it's probably Fleetwood Mac's best lyric, or one of.
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