The Upside

[Johnny Stew]

Hi Lori!

"Je ne sais quois" is a French term for "something indescribable."

Good to hear you're doing well... even if you've been a bit busy lately (to say the least)!

Things are good here.... can't complain.
(Well, i *could* but what good does that do! )

Take good care!

Johnny Stew

[Lori]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew

"Je ne sais quois" is a French term for "something indescribable."

Hey, thanks for the translation!

And sheesh, Brian, I do hope you know that I knew that was French...I was joking about the German thing...I may have lost many, but I don't think I've lost ALL of my brain cells - YET!

Lori

[tommer]

Welllll she was presumably with the band while recording Paper Doll and Heart of Stone...I find it incredibly hard to believe that she wasn't percieved as part of the band.

they BOTH wern't official members at the time, her recording with them (instead of just giving solo stuff and labelling it 'fleetwood mac' like lindsey did) just comes to show how cooperative she was despite her situation with mick, and her good nature.

you opened up the can of worms by mentioning grammar bub!

again, read before you post. i initially claimed my english sucks.

I think that's a bit of a vast generalization there. Each and every case?

please gimme ONE good example to prove me wrong then.

And you still didn't answer my question! How are two albums in a 5 year FM dormant period a side-career?

that's because i still don't understand which albums you are refering to.

your argument has no leg to stand on...at absolute best. Bring the WB exec in to tell me LB wasn't allowed to release an album, then I'll shut up.

do you REALLY want me to rub it in??? okay. Gift Of Screws is a finished project which warner declines to release for several years now, probably because they don't really like losing money over LB again. if they didn't need him for FM's sake they would have let him 'go his own way' a loooooong time ago. (and no, i don't have a WB exec to testify this in a court of law, these are just circumstantial evidences, but quite solid ones i'd say) recording his music with fleetwood mac is the only option he has to release his music at the moment (oh...truth bitter truth...).

The general public did better with SN's 90's releases?

indeed so. in the US alone her 90's releases scored 2 gold and 1 platinum status, which is more than all of the other band members' solo projects ever, combined.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by tommer
okay. Gift Of Screws is a finished project which warner declines to release for several years now, probably because they don't really like losing money over LB again. if they didn't need him for FM's sake they would have let him 'go his own way' a loooooong time ago. (and no, i don't have a WB exec to testify this in a court of law, these are just circumstantial evidences, but quite solid ones i'd say) recording his music with fleetwood mac is the only option he has to release his music at the moment (oh...truth bitter truth...). indeed so.

Conjecture, sheer conjecture. The truth is we truly don't know exactly what went on, except for Lindsey admitting that he was considering releasing the material as a Fleetwood Mac album so it would get more exposure. That Out of the Cradle did not sell is a sad reality that I blame on the label. At best, their marketing muscle being the record was half-hearted. Let's see how much more promotion will go on when the new record comes out.

By the way, since the grammar dispute over "did" originally referred to something I wrote, just to clarify: "Did" was the grammatically correct use of the tense in the sentence in question. I am not a native English speaker either, but I make my living off the English language.

Lastly, I agree with David's assessment of Stevie's dedication to Fleetwood Mac after 1981. And I would add that in light of this, her villification of Lindsey Buckingham when he decided to walk out in 1987 was doubly gallling. Not only did he put his own album on hold to reluctantly work with the band and dress up her bottom-of-the-barrel songs, he had way bigger hits on that album than her sad excuse for a song, "Seven Wonders."

Tango was as great as it was because once again, Lindsey Buckingham was fully in control. It was successful in spite of Stevie Nicks.

Peace

[tommer]

Out of the Cradle did not sell is a sad reality that I blame on the label.

i don't. did you expect them to be some kind of alchemists to make this album into gold? one fine song and a beautiful sleeve are not enough to sell a record apparently.

he put his own album on hold to reluctantly work with the band

a reminder: there was a 5 year gap between TITN and OOTC. he always seem to have an album down his sleeve. he claimed the same regarding The Dance and the current recording sessions (should we expect GOS's release in 2008 then?)

I am not a native English speaker either

that's okay, you don't have to be one in order to like lyrics such as Big Love, Caroline and Family Man, although TITN is a masterpiece in terms of production, i listened to some better lyrics (than lindsey's contributions there) which were sung by britney spears.

It was successful in spite of Stevie Nicks.

my guess is that you just say this in order to irritate, i give you enough credit knowing you are not foolish enough to really believe that.

[sulamith]

Here we go......the same argument AGAIN, when we are supposed to be primarily talking about the upside of Stevie.

Who contributed more, who contributed less, who's contributions were done reluctantly, who's songs sucked, who put their solo album on hold, who held the others back, who was there, who wasn't there, who is responsible for more sales....blah, blah, blah...


Just like Stevie isn't everyone's cup of tea, neither is Lindsey.
There are alot of people who think he just sucks, the same way alot poeple think Stevie sounds like a bleating goat.

No matter how many rounds we go with each other we won't ever know.

Ok, I'm done, resume your debate, but neither of you will emerge victorious, and you will propbably only tick each other off.

[CarneVaca]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tommer
i don't. did you expect them to be some kind of alchemists to make this album into gold? one fine song and a beautiful sleeve are not enough to sell a record apparently.

So you actually did like one song? Better than nothing.

he always seem to have an album down his sleeve.

That's because he did. No one is more frustrated than I at how slow he is to produce an album.

i listened to some better lyrics (than lindsey's contributions there) which were sung by britney spears.

Well, that speaks volumes, doesn't it?

guess is that you just say this in order to irritate, i give you enough credit knowing you are not foolish enough to really believe that.

OK, let's take the first part of that. Nothing I say on this board is intended to just irritate. That would be a waste of my time. I happen to be able to talk about this band without getting my knickers in a twist. When people say they don't like Lindsey's music, as you have, I simply shrug or, if you're funny about it, laugh. That's about all it's worth. I don't get irritated, unless someone clearly attacks me, which has happened. As far as I'm concerned, you can say whatever you want about the band and its members, and you will never irritate me.

As for whether I am "foolish enough to believe that" -- that being my assertion that Tango was successful in spite of Stevie -- I sincerely believe it. I have no doubt that the Stevie crowd rushed to the stores to buy the album because of her. However, when Big Love, Family Man, Little Lies and Everywhere became ubiquitous on the radio for about two years, I equally have no doubt that it had nothing to do with Stevie Nicks. (As I recall, Seven Wonders disappeared from the airwaves a few weeks after it was released, not to be played ever again with any regularity.) What it had to do with was flawlessly produced, well-written songs that caught the listening public's ear. Seven Wonders, and the other two Nicks contributions to that album, were among the worst of Stevie's songs that have been officially released. And much of that was because her voice was shot, though it has gotten better since. I am not trying to knock Stevie by saying that, (I believe she's admitted her voice wasn't at its best back then) nor am I telling anyone they shouldn't like said songs. I was agreeing with David, who made some excellent points.

[The Tower]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
However, when Big Love, Family Man, Little Lies and Everywhere became ubiquitous on the radio for about two years, I equally have no doubt that it had nothing to do with Stevie Nicks. (As I recall, Seven Wonders disappeared from the airwaves a few weeks after it was released, not to be played ever again with any regularity.) What it had to do with was flawlessly produced, well-written songs that caught the listening public's ear. Seven Wonders, and the other two Nicks contributions to that album, were among the worst of Stevie's songs that have been officially released. And much of that was because her voice was shot, though it has gotten better since.

I was a HUGE Mac fan and very much into their activities when Tango in the Night was released.

I never ONCE heard "Family Man" on the radio- Top 40, AOL Rock, AAA... "Big Love" didn't get much airplay after its initial release. "Everywhere" and "Little Lies" (in particular) were played to DEATH on several different formats. "Seven Wonders" did okay, with modest video airplay and limited radio airplay.

I do recall that a LOT of Mac fans thought that Stevie's voice was allll over "Big Love", which it wasn't. And Stevie's background vocals were a huge contribution to the success of "Little Lies"- believe it or not.

IMO Tango in the Night is a very weak album, most of it due to the overall poor songwriting from all three writers (the only great songs on the album are "Isn't It Midnight" and "Tango in the Night").

I really think that TITN's huge sales, etc. were really due to "reunion promotion" (they got a TON of MTV promotion for weeks and weeks and weeks), not the quality of the album. But that's just my opinion.

Yes, Stevie's contribution to TITN was limited at best- however, I'm surprised she would even want to show up given the situation(s) at the time.

So, an UPSIDE to Stevie for being brave and showing up and participating in Tango in the Night, when most others would have said "FORGET IT!"

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by The Tower

So, an UPSIDE to Stevie for being brave and showing up and participating in Tango in the Night, when most others would have said "FORGET IT!"

Upside the head?

[The Tower]

Originally posted by CarneVaca


Upside the head?

Hilarious.... You shouldn't be soooo mean to poor, little Stevie. Shame on you!

Just kidding!!!!

[chiliD]

Yes, Stevie's contribution to TITN was limited at best- however, I'm surprised she would even want to show up given the situation(s) at the time.

So, an UPSIDE to Stevie for being brave and showing up and participating in Tango in the Night, when most others would have said "FORGET IT!"

People have been asking me to the effect, "Why are you so down on Stevie Nicks, chili?"...

The above situation is a "case in point". Once she started off on her solo career in 1981, she has seemed to place more priority on her solo career than she did with the band. Sure, she's SAID things to the contrary in interviews, but the ol' "actions speak louder than words" thing holds true in this case. She's kept the better songs for herself, she's seemed to save her best performances (both live & in studio) for herself, etc. Like we as Fleetwood Mac fans are just supposed to fall over backwards that she decided to show up for a couple of weeks (and not consecutively) to the Tango sessions?? The results speak volumes. Oh, gee, Stevie, thanks for NOT putting "Gypsy" on Bella Donna...and thanks for bringing us "Welcome To The Room...Sara" when we could've had "If I Were You" or "No Spoken Word", etc, etc.

And, since 1997, the same is true...the whole "Dance" reunion was INTENDED to be the catapult for Lindsey's solo album, but who reaped the benefit? Stevie and her "Enchanted" box. Stole the limelight again.

[AliP]

Originally posted by chiliD


And, since 1997, the same is true...the whole "Dance" reunion was INTENDED to be the catapult for Lindsey's solo album, but who reaped the benefit? Stevie and her "Enchanted" box. Stole the limelight again.

But I don't see how that can be blamed on Stevie like she "intentionally" stole the limelight. Of course, we don't know all the facts, but Lindsey's delayed release could have been the result of several things ie. the record company, Lindsey dragging his feet etc. To me, it seems, that Stevie knew she had a huge opportunity after The Dance and she jumped on it. I don't see anything wrong that. It's too bad Lindsey wasn't able to do the same thing.

[chiliD]

Regardless of "intention", it's what happened.

[The Tower]

Once she started off on her solo career in 1981, she has seemed to place more priority on her solo career than she did with the band.

If I were in Stevie's situation I would have done exactly the same thing. The other band members didn't exactly give her any reasons to stay. After Tusk, I'm really surprised she came back to the band. I guess it just shows how much she loves being in FM, or maybe it's something else.

Sure, she's SAID things to the contrary in interviews, but the ol' "actions speak louder than words" thing holds true in this case. She's kept the better songs for herself, she's seemed to save her best performances (both live & in studio) for herself, etc.

I don't agree with the "kept better songs for herself" part. I'm sure that mostl of the songs on Bella Donna were available for FM to use/choose for the group albums. I think its more of a timing thing than anything else. She wrote "Edge of Seventeen in 80/81. If I had written that song, would I hold it FM somehow miraculously decides to get back together? Or would I record it and move on? I would pick the latter.

I have seen a show from every single solo tour Stevie has done, and I STILL think her best live performances have been with FM.

And, since 1997, the same is true...the whole "Dance" reunion was INTENDED to be the catapult for Lindsey's solo album, but who reaped the benefit? Stevie and her "Enchanted" box. Stole the limelight again.

I thought The Dance was designed to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Rumours? If it was supposed to catapult Lindsey, they sure did a crappy job of presenting it that way- considering he never even released a solo album. It's not Stevie's fault that her box set was successful and Lindsey was out of the limelight- simply fans buying product and Lindsey not putting out any product to buy.

[rhiannon1119]

Yes, I agree.. that is what happened... but wasn't Stevie getting ready to start work on a new solo album before the Dance? She put that project on hold when they decided to do the Dance... just as Lindsey put his solo project on hold to do the Dance. What happened after the dance was just seizing an opportunity. Stevie saw an opportunity and took it. Lindsey could have just as easily done the same thing... just my opinion.

Michelle