I've been thinking...

[brickney723]

Here are some quotes from 1992 OOTC interview: Spoken and instrumental interludes serve as unexpected doorways to some of the songs, and in one of them, Buckingham hints at the emotional upheavals of the last decade:I`ve got to stop this obsession of revenge and fear -I`ve been running from everything that I once held dear-And it feels so cold; it feels like sin-I`ve got to stop this obsession and start living again.`I certainly don`t feel that way now, but there were times that I questioned my reasons for making the type of music I was,`` he says. ``There were things lingering for years having to do with relationships and the band, hurtful things, that were impossible to deal with until I left. If you were in a relationship and split up, then had to see that person every day for the next 15 years, it might keep you from dealing with some of those things.``While we made `Rumours` (in 1977) there were two couples breaking up in the band (Buckingham and Nicks, and John and Christine McVie), and we had to say, `This is an important thing we`re doing, so we`ve got to put this set of feelings on this side of the room and get on with it. “And when you do that long enough you forget that those feelings are even there.``On this album, I`m putting all these feelings in the healthiest possible perspective and that, looking at it broadly, is a lot of what the album is dealing with. It`s a catharsis, absolutely.”

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by brickney723

When he's candid, he'll admit the real reason he left was because he needed separation from her- the personal addictions/ habits and creative differences played a more minor part.

I don't think the personal addictions/habits and creative differences are something you can separate from Stevie. At any rate, if Lindsey was a person whose exclusive motivation in music and life was Stevie, I actually think the whole FM history would have played out a lot differently than it did. Michele

[brickney723]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't think the personal addictions/habits and creative differences are something you can separate from Stevie. At any rate, if Lindsey was a person whose exclusive motivation in music and life was Stevie, I actually think the whole FM history would have played out a lot differently than it did. Michele

Yeah, I actually do think she was his biggest motivation in music and life for a really long time.

[MrStevie]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't think the personal addictions/habits and creative differences are something you can separate from Stevie. At any rate, if Lindsey was a person whose exclusive motivation in music and life was Stevie, I actually think the whole FM history would have played out a lot differently than it did. Michele

"It Takes Time" ?

[elle]

Originally Posted by brickney723

There's a quote by Nicks from the first news conference after Lindsey's 1987 departure, I think in and of itself, it's very telling about the state of the situation.--

if you look at the quotes so many provide to base their assessment of that relationship, >90% come from just one side - SN. that is problematic. if you are trying to understand what's going on, you cannot continually take just one side's story. it may be just her justification why it didn't work out, and wanting to look like the one with the upper hand. many people in relationships, ongoing or finished, want to present themselves as having the upper hand. all SN's statements strike me us her being that way too. and that's perfectly fine, but it also means you cannot take what she says as objective truth.

she said "lindsey only loved himself" or "he only loved his guitar" - that probably harks back to Christine's recent description of his past behavior, as asperger-ish, or somewhere on the spectrum. singular interest. Michele elaborated nicely on that in the past few days.

Lindsey said their relationship was on the rocks during BN phase. Stevie said that too. Landslide and Monday Morning are clearly about that. if they haven't joined FM and became hugely successful, maybe they would have had a clean break at some point and went on their way. or had kids or messy life together, who knows. Stevie doesn't strike me as a person who would ever be happy with just quiet domesticated life, and as a woman i can fully understand that.

as they both said, but especially Lindsey, it was hard being broken up but never having a closure and a clean break because you had to see that person 24/7. of course you would be frustrated. there are little snippets in Carol's book about SN trying to reel him back in from time to time. however badly written, those snippets ring very true, human, and typical of so many relationships.

it may easily be that SN didn't really want to be with LB, but she also didn't want anybody else to have him. she wanted him to always be there in the background for her, in reserve. many people are like that, it's not that unusual. "what makes you think i'm the one?" right? you wanna know this person will always be there to fall back on, that you will always be loved, but you want to come and go and use him as you please. so every time he'd try to make a break, she'd reel him back in...

then he finally made a break. had a family. he finally got over her as far as any coupledom is concerned, however much he still cares for her and loves her and the road they traveled together. he's not angry anymore. he's calm. and she doesn't have him on her back and call whenever she wants to anymore. that must be frustrating. plus she is getting older... so she's giving all these statements saying what all his regrets supposedly are. not hers. that's interesting, no? goes back to where i started, wanting to look like you are the one with the upper hand in the relationship. and he doesn't seems to care either way about what she says. any pent up or leftover feelings, he vents out in his art. he seems to be in a very stable place in his life, where he can emit love towards others and just putting up with their quirks, for the most part. at least that's what he projects, these days.


to go back on topic - why not Christine and John, but Lindsey and Stevie generate so much attention? besides all the stuff many people listed here already, there is one other point that occurred to me, and i think you brought it up, too, brickney. Stevie Nicks, besides her 6 or so years with Lindsey, never had a lasting stable relationship in her life, as far as we know. Lindsey hinted in one recent interview that maybe moving around as a kid so much and having to prove herself to new people over and over may have scared her in some way. John, Lindsey, and Christine all had other lasting and stable relationships with other people, not just with each other. so if there was never anybody else for a significant period of time, coupled with their songs and all Stevie's statements of wanting to be a power couple, it is easy to project and speculate.


just my 0.02. i may be completely off, like everybody else.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by brickney723

This is an important thing we`re doing, so we`ve got to put this set of feelings on this side of the room and get on with it. “And when you do that long enough you forget that those feelings are even there.``On this album, I`m putting all these feelings in the healthiest possible perspective and that, looking at it broadly, is a lot of what the album is dealing with. It`s a catharsis, absolutely.”

This would suggest that while he was in the band, all of the songs he wrote were not about the relationship you think OOTC is about, since he was forgetting that those feelings were even there. I don't buy it.

But I do agree that once he left the band he was able to be more positive and healthy about his feelings for Stevie. That's why you got Say Goodbye, written before he now thinks it was written.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by brickney723

Yeah, I actually do think she was his biggest motivation in music and life for a really long time.

And I don't. I think maybe they could have had a smoother, less volatile relationship if she was, whether as lovers or just bandmates.

I do think she's his great romantic love, but I also don't think that romantic love is his strongest motivator.

Michele

[brickney723]

Elle, I pretty much agree with everything you said.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by elle

if you look at the quotes so many provide to base their assessment of that relationship, >90% come from just one side - SN. that is problematic. if you are trying to understand what's going on, you cannot continually take just one side's story. it may be just her justification why it didn't work out, and wanting to look like the one with the upper hand. many people in relationships, ongoing or finished, want to present themselves as having the upper hand. all SN's statements strike me us her being that way too. and that's perfectly fine, but it also means you cannot take what she says as objective truth.

she said "lindsey only loved himself" or "he only loved his guitar" - that probably harks back to Christine's recent description of his past behavior, as asperger-ish, or somewhere on the spectrum. singular interest. Michele elaborated nicely on that in the past few days.

Lindsey said their relationship was on the rocks during BN phase. Stevie said that too. Landslide and Monday Morning are clearly about that. if they haven't joined FM and became hugely successful, maybe they would have had a clean break at some point and went on their way. or had kids or messy life together, who knows. Stevie doesn't strike me as a person who would ever be happy with just quiet domesticated life, and as a woman i can fully understand that.

as they both said, but especially Lindsey, it was hard being broken up but never having a closure and a clean break because you had to see that person 24/7. of course you would be frustrated. there are little snippets in Carol's book about SN trying to reel him back in from time to time. however badly written, those snippets ring very true, human, and typical of so many relationships.

it may easily be that SN didn't really want to be with LB, but she also didn't want anybody else to have him. she wanted him to always be there in the background for her, in reserve. many people are like that, it's not that unusual. "what makes you think i'm the one?" right? you wanna know this person will always be there to fall back on, that you will always be loved, but you want to come and go and use him as you please. so every time he'd try to make a break, she'd reel him back in...

then he finally made a break. had a family. he finally got over her as far as any coupledom is concerned, however much he still cares for her and loves her and the road they traveled together. he's not angry anymore. he's calm. and she doesn't have him on her back and call whenever she wants to anymore. that must be frustrating. plus she is getting older... so she's giving all these statements saying what all his regrets supposedly are. not hers. that's interesting, no? goes back to where i started, wanting to look like you are the one with the upper hand in the relationship. and he doesn't seems to care either way about what she says. any pent up or leftover feelings, he vents out in his art. he seems to be in a very stable place in his life, where he can emit love towards others and just putting up with their quirks, for the most part. at least that's what he projects, these days.


to go back on topic - why not Christine and John, but Lindsey and Stevie generate so much attention? besides all the stuff many people listed here already, there is one other point that occurred to me, and i think you brought it up, too, brickney. Stevie Nicks, besides her 6 or so years with Lindsey, never had a lasting stable relationship in her life, as far as we know. Lindsey hinted in one recent interview that maybe moving around as a kid so much and having to prove herself to new people over and over may have scared her in some way. John, Lindsey, and Christine all had other lasting and stable relationships with other people, not just with each other. so if there was never anybody else for a significant period of time, coupled with their songs and all Stevie's statements of wanting to be a power couple, it is easy to project and speculate.


just my 0.02. i may be completely off, like everybody else.

I think your tuppence is spot on!

[MrStevie]

Originally Posted by elle

Lindsey hinted in one recent interview that maybe moving around as a kid so much and having to prove herself to new people over and over may have scared her in some way.

just my 0.02. i may be completely off, like everybody else.

I don't think completely off. I agree with a lot of what you said. The only thing I would add is a comment on the quote above. I moved all the time as a kid. I had to prove myself to new people over and over. It made me cherish monogamy, stability, and family so much that I'd do anything to keep those things from the crazy cyclone of show business. I could never see myself in that career, while it was her destiny.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by brickney723

Here are some quotes from 1992 OOTC interview: Spoken and instrumental interludes serve as unexpected doorways to some of the songs, and in one of them, Buckingham hints at the emotional upheavals of the last decade:I`ve got to stop this obsession of revenge and fear -I`ve been running from everything that I once held dear-And it feels so cold; it feels like sin-I`ve got to stop this obsession and start living again.`I certainly don`t feel that way now, but there were times that I questioned my reasons for making the type of music I was,`` he says. ``There were things lingering for years having to do with relationships and the band, hurtful things, that were impossible to deal with until I left. If you were in a relationship and split up, then had to see that person every day for the next 15 years, it might keep you from dealing with some of those things.``While we made `Rumours` (in 1977) there were two couples breaking up in the band (Buckingham and Nicks, and John and Christine McVie), and we had to say, `This is an important thing we`re doing, so we`ve got to put this set of feelings on this side of the room and get on with it. “And when you do that long enough you forget that those feelings are even there.``On this album, I`m putting all these feelings in the healthiest possible perspective and that, looking at it broadly, is a lot of what the album is dealing with. It`s a catharsis, absolutely.”

I just don't think the struggles Lindsey had within FM were exclusive to Stevie. There's the well-documented tension between his artistic ambitions and the band's business/profits ambitions. There was the struggle generally to be a collaborator not a dictator. Even Keith Olsen said recently that he brought BN into the studio and was working to introduce LB to the concept of working with other musicians and not just doing it all yourself. There was the reported quote from someone in the band--was it Christine? John? Someone must remember better than I-- to LB "maybe you just don't want to be in a band"... There's his relationship with John, often tense. His relationship with Mick-- which I think is one of the most interesting and complex in the whole band and which doesn't get as much discussion and perhaps dissection as it merits... there is one COMPLICATED friendship there. So I think OOTC was about ALL that stuff--- freeing himself from the band and EVERYTHING that that entailed, which of course, included Stevie, but so much more.

[brickney723]

I mean I think it's a great, great, incredible love story- I do. But only from one side. I don't think he was in any way to her what she was to him. I hope for him to be really happy with his life the way it is because I think he's suffered and I think he deserves it.

[Lindsfan]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

His relationship with Mick-- which I think is one of the most interesting and complex in the whole band and which doesn't get as much discussion and perhaps dissection as it merits... there is one COMPLICATED friendship there. So I think OOTC was about ALL that stuff--- freeing himself from the band and EVERYTHING that that entailed, which of course, included Stevie, but so much more.

I've always been fascinated by them as well. I know John is Mick's best friend, but Lindsey and Mick seem almost more like brothers in a way. I find their relationship totally endearing. Here's a neat interview from a few years back, that you may like:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...m-1149147.html

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by Lindsfan

I've always been fascinated by them as well. I know John is Mick's best friend, but Lindsey and Mick seem almost more like brothers in a way. I find their relationship totally endearing. Here's a neat interview from a few years back, that you may like:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...m-1149147.html

this is great, thanks for sharing it. I had not seen it. They do seem to know each other pretty well, don't they? It's nice to see they have come to accept their own and each other's foibles much better these days.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

to LB "maybe you just don't want to be in a band"...

I remember that Mick said to him that he was in a band -- like he had to remind him.

Michele