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  #76  
Old 11-02-2019, 08:12 PM
cbBen cbBen is offline
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Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
Agreed. The live three-part harmonies on Isn't it Midnight and Eyes of the World are fantastic. Why, oh why were they not considered for their respective albums? Think of how cool Big Love would have been if all three of them were singing on it. When all three voices are singing on The Dance's Silver Springs, I get chills.

Love SYW as a testament to the duo's continued viability as songwriters. The set is strengthened by the trio's instrumentation. But it's so bifurcated. Christine is sorely missed.
A real waste to leave Stevie's voice off almost any song, but particularly the wordless chorus of "Eyes Of The World."
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  #77  
Old 11-02-2019, 09:07 PM
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For me, Mirage was their peak, live. The peak of their voices, their looks, and their energy. And it was before the Fleetwood Mac Orchestra. And let's be honest....that's really(Tango, and the orchestra) when the old goat began gaining power in the group.

Christine coming back was a dream come true, and looking back now, THAT should have been the end of their story. Not firing Lindsey, hiring Neil and Hobo Joe to take his place.
Agreed about Tango. But then Lindsey left and of course the old goat took the opportunity to gain power.

Christine coming back meant she was free to firing Lindsey, so I don't know if it was such a good thing that she came back. Old Goat couldn't care less about the band's legacy. And that's the f*cking truth.
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  #78  
Old 11-03-2019, 01:58 AM
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Christine coming back meant she was free to firing Lindsey, so I don't know if it was such a good thing that she came back. Old Goat couldn't care less about the band's legacy. And that's the f*cking truth.
But it was REALLY an ordeal for me to deal with them, without the balance that Christine brings. It was FLAT without Christine.

That said (especially after BuckVie, and the love they showed on the swan song for FM), if we'd known she was GOING TO HAVE NO F*CKING SPINE, and let that ego maniacal old goat fire the REASON that made and kept them being ARTISTS, maybe it would have been better if she hadn't come back. Spineless old company shill, who WAS the heroine of my life. Her loyalties are f*cked up beyond belief. Mick called her Superwoman. She ain't. #companyshill
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  #79  
Old 11-03-2019, 02:05 AM
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I remember that when I read Bob Welch's wife's stories about Christine keeping Bob out of the R&RHOF, that she wasn't the woman I'd always hoped she was. And I did my best to ignore it, and forgive her. And I pretty much made it. Until the Lindsey debacle. She's almost as bad and Dick and the Old Goat.'

Lindsey is the ONLY one I'd even care to meet, these days. Perhaps John, but I've never understood anything he's ever said on camera, so it would be frustrating trying to decipher his cockney mumblings.
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  #80  
Old 11-03-2019, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
I remember that when I read Bob Welch's wife's stories about Christine keeping Bob out of the R&RHOF, that she wasn't the woman I'd always hoped she was. And I did my best to ignore it, and forgive her. And I pretty much made it. Until the Lindsey debacle. She's almost as bad and Dick and the Old Goat.'

Lindsey is the ONLY one I'd even care to meet, these days. Perhaps John, but I've never understood anything he's ever said on camera, so it would be frustrating trying to decipher his cockney mumblings.
I'm with you admiring Christine as my favorite member. She has always had a calming effect on me. Her songs are always excellent and always loved how it was never about "her" but always the group effort. All traits that I admire. I love her playing too. Everything she adds to a song it always top notch. But if you read some of Bob's interviews during the 90's, Bob had some harsh things to say about her saying stuff like she acted like royalty, etc. I guess those traits of putting the band FIRST (no matter what) does come with some negative baggage i.e. turning your back on Lindsey and not putting your foot down, turning your back on Bob, etc. She seems to have a blind loyalty to Mick except when she wanted to leave the band. She even gave him $50,000 during his peak debt crisis in 1984.
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  #81  
Old 11-03-2019, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
I'm with you admiring Christine as my favorite member. She has always had a calming effect on me. Her songs are always excellent and always loved how it was never about "her" but always the group effort. All traits that I admire. I love her playing too. Everything she adds to a song it always top notch. But if you read some of Bob's interviews during the 90's, Bob had some harsh things to say about her saying stuff like she acted like royalty, etc. I guess those traits of putting the band FIRST (no matter what) does come with some negative baggage i.e. turning your back on Lindsey and not putting your foot down, turning your back on Bob, etc. She seems to have a blind loyalty to Mick except when she wanted to leave the band. She even gave him $50,000 during his peak debt crisis in 1984.
I think the older they’ve got the three Brits have stuck together...
They have a long long history back to the mid 1960’s
.....Unfortunately due mainly to Mick having permanent money problems
they have to sit at the same table as the cash cow....
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  #82  
Old 11-03-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
But it was REALLY an ordeal for me to deal with them, without the balance that Christine brings. It was FLAT without Christine.

That said (especially after BuckVie, and the love they showed on the swan song for FM), if we'd known she was GOING TO HAVE NO F*CKING SPINE, and let that ego maniacal old goat fire the REASON that made and kept them being ARTISTS, maybe it would have been better if she hadn't come back. Spineless old company shill, who WAS the heroine of my life. Her loyalties are f*cked up beyond belief. Mick called her Superwoman. She ain't. #companyshill
as a fan, and as a feminist, i'm very happy she came back. i was happy to see a 70 year old woman being able to come back and reclaim her place in rock history. as a fan, i am thrilled to have gotten Buckingham McVie, songs that we probably still would not get out with the band trying to appease Stevie and bring her to the table to release that as Mac album. i'm thrilled to see Lindsey-Christine collaboration and how productive and happy it was at this late stage in their career. i'm thrilled to have making off BuckVie footage, showing us how happy and cohesive and creative Fleetwood Mac can be where the person constantly holding them back and constantly inciting unnecessary fights and touting their own importance is not there.

yes, personally for Lindsey it did not end well, and ended in a heart attack and voice damage. i'm still hoping he will come back. but at least he's not wasting away more years on useless jukebox tours.

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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie View Post
I remember that when I read Bob Welch's wife's stories about Christine keeping Bob out of the R&RHOF, that she wasn't the woman I'd always hoped she was. And I did my best to ignore it, and forgive her. And I pretty much made it. Until the Lindsey debacle. She's almost as bad and Dick and the Old Goat.'

Lindsey is the ONLY one I'd even care to meet, these days. Perhaps John, but I've never understood anything he's ever said on camera, so it would be frustrating trying to decipher his cockney mumblings.
you take Mick's word (washing his own hands and putting it all on someone else) as gospel. i don't believe a word Mick's saying, so i don't see why would we believe what he said to Wendy is true. he was just trying to make her stop blaming him.

i never understood this - why are you giving a pass to John while at the same time blaming Christine? John had an opportunity to say no to Mick, before Christine even knew what was happening. he just lazily rolled over and couldn't care less. and then Christine went with him and Mick. so John is even more to blame than Christine. just because he doesn't say much he always get more of a pass than anyone else in that band. he shouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
I'm with you admiring Christine as my favorite member. She has always had a calming effect on me. Her songs are always excellent and always loved how it was never about "her" but always the group effort. All traits that I admire. I love her playing too. Everything she adds to a song it always top notch. But if you read some of Bob's interviews during the 90's, Bob had some harsh things to say about her saying stuff like she acted like royalty, etc. I guess those traits of putting the band FIRST (no matter what) does come with some negative baggage i.e. turning your back on Lindsey and not putting your foot down, turning your back on Bob, etc. She seems to have a blind loyalty to Mick except when she wanted to leave the band. She even gave him $50,000 during his peak debt crisis in 1984.
yes.
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  #83  
Old 11-03-2019, 07:23 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
I'm with you admiring Christine as my favorite member. She has always had a calming effect on me. Her songs are always excellent and always loved how it was never about "her" but always the group effort. All traits that I admire. I love her playing too. Everything she adds to a song it always top notch. But if you read some of Bob's interviews during the 90's, Bob had some harsh things to say about her saying stuff like she acted like royalty, etc. I guess those traits of putting the band FIRST (no matter what) does come with some negative baggage i.e. turning your back on Lindsey and not putting your foot down, turning your back on Bob, etc. She seems to have a blind loyalty to Mick except when she wanted to leave the band. She even gave him $50,000 during his peak debt crisis in 1984.
I'd always heard it was $100k.
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  #84  
Old 11-03-2019, 11:29 PM
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I'd always heard it was $100k.
Either way it was not nearly enough to get that greedy old P.O.S. out of the red..It took the Tango album and tour to do that but he would lose that fortune as well.
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  #85  
Old 11-04-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
Yes that's what I and many others mean when we say it is a highly produced album. They didn't leave the songs in a raw state meaning that they went in and did some rough takes and then put those out. Make no mistake everything on there is deliberate and polished. They recorded a lot of backing vocals and instrumental tracks and Lindsey played around with how many to layer in (or not). And even on the songs that you THINK are really minimalist and only have a couple things on them it's not the case. It's hard to imagine but it takes a lot of layers to sound like it's only a few. It's like women who you'd swear aren't wearing any makeup at all and just look naturally flawless, when in reality there are layers and layers of foundation and contouring and highlighter and 6 shades of neutral eyeshadow and eyeliner that look like she's wearing no eye make up at all.
Good way to put it—good analogy. I think we’re all on the same page. The production label includes things like the arrangements or orchestrations, which involve deciding which instruments to incorporate, setting levels, deciding how (or whether) to combine instruments or vocals (double-tracking, triple-tracking, quadruple-tracking), instrumental costuming (creating the illusion of one instrument with another), and so on.

Over and Over may have a lot of thinking behind it and a lot of conscious craftsmanship involved in its recording, but it’s arranged to sound as if you were only hearing a basic combo: drums, bass, electronic piano, organ, acoustic guitar, an electric guitar or two, a lead vocal and some harmonies. It has a natural, ad hoc feel—kind of a “take it from the top” live feel, which is something that Fleetwood Mac usually does not do. What you usually hear is an entire novel of sound ideas where pieces of instrumentation or vocals are stripped or combined in ways that the listener feels more than hears. Fleetwood Mac is the idea band. They must have thousands of ideas in a year of being in the studio, and I bet they put the majority of those ideas on tape. But months later, they may remove a bunch of them, too (think of the way the kit brushes were removed from Never Going Back Again).

Sometimes they go wrong for my personal taste. Why isn’t there a chunkier, more prominent piano on Love in Store? It fairly cries out for it.
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  #86  
Old 11-04-2019, 05:21 PM
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Sometimes they go wrong for my personal taste. Why isn’t there a chunkier, more prominent piano on Love in Store
? It fairly cries out for it.
Ugh this song is one of my personal bugaboos as well... it just doesn't work. It sounds to me very..... empty. Lots of unfilled spaces. Cold. Unfinished. Especially on an album so full of plinks and plops and all sorts of sounds (like Gypsy).
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  #87  
Old 11-04-2019, 06:51 PM
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I'd always heard it was $100k.
I'm going off memory from Mick's own words in his first book. Although $50,000 in 1984 would almost be $100,000 today. But the money only carried Mick for one month before he officially declared bankruptcy.

BTW, would it not be a dream to bring Lindsey into this Tusk conversation. I bet he would love it too. Answering all Tusk related questions with dedication. (I don't believe this) but there are many in the rock world that believe Tusk ruined FM. You hear the White Album and Rumours on classic rock stations every day. They never play Tusk or Sara and Mirage is too light pop, etc. I often wonder not about Tusk that changed the band but Rumours. What IF Rumours was as successful or a tad less successful than the White Album. What would Tusk have sounded like then? Would it have even been called Tusk? What if we got another "traditional" album like the first 2. Interesting to think about it.
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  #88  
Old 11-04-2019, 11:12 PM
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Either way it was not nearly enough to get that greedy old P.O.S. out of the red..It took the Tango album and tour to do that but he would lose that fortune as well.
Mick has revealed to the world that he lost all his money more times than we originally knew about. Should we assume he will eventually blow through the ten million dollars he earned from this current tour also? I try to imagine having his income from 1977. Would I still have my fortune today? Would I have been like him and blow it all? It's so easy for me to criticize his stupidity when it comes to money but I myself made many a blunder with all the money I earned in my lifetime. I have been marijuana free for almost 11 years now but during those smoking times, I never was able to save money. My bills always got paid but everything after that went up in smoke.
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  #89  
Old 11-05-2019, 08:41 AM
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BTW, would it not be a dream to bring Lindsey into this Tusk conversation. I bet he would love it too. Answering all Tusk related questions with dedication. (I don't believe this) but there are many in the rock world that believe Tusk ruined FM. You hear the White Album and Rumours on classic rock stations every day. They never play Tusk or Sara and Mirage is too light pop, etc. I often wonder not about Tusk that changed the band but Rumours. What IF Rumours was as successful or a tad less successful than the White Album. What would Tusk have sounded like then? Would it have even been called Tusk? What if we got another "traditional" album like the first 2. Interesting to think about it.

Interesting perspective MacMan and one that supports how the bands setlists have remained unchanged for how many decades now. With the exception of I Don't Want to Know and Oh Daddy here and there the whole album gets played. Tusk has all but disappeared and Gypsy and Hold Me are the only Mirage tunes. As for the others, did Behind the Mask and Say You Will actually exist? So I think the band themselves have defined what is memorable and what is not- the shout outs to Tusk that Stevie or Mick gives are empty in my mind as they know a concert full of Tusk songs would see a lot of empty seats. As for what ruined the band's creativity, it was in my mind the gargantuan success of Rumours, they didn't know how to handle it all and it went to their heads, along with a lot of coke, they lost their way and the creativity that spawned Rumours went up in smoke.
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  #90  
Old 11-05-2019, 11:18 AM
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So I think the band themselves have defined what is memorable and what is not- the shout outs to Tusk that Stevie or Mick gives are empty in my mind as they know a concert full of Tusk songs would see a lot of empty seats.
But empty seats confirm my suspicions of who defines what is memorable. The band? Mmmm... I think it is people. Common admirers, who are the majority. It reminds me the History of the Eagles doc, Glenn explained it very clear:

Randy Meisner, called the road manager and said "Tell Glenn I don't want to do Take It To The Limit any more. Take it out of the set. "
Glenn: I confronted him about this. I called him up, and I said, "Randy, there's thousands of people waiting to hear you sing that song. "You just can't say, 'F... them. I don't feel like it. Do you think I like singing Take It Easy and Peaceful Easy Feeling every night? I'm tired of those songs, but there's people in the audience who've been waiting years to see us do those songs."


And to be sincere, I felt so identified with that, since 1997 was my first opportunity to see Fleetwood Mac live, and did I want to see them playing Honey Hi? No, I was dying to see them singing the hits... Don't Stop, GYOW, Tusk(song), Sara, Everywhere, or Rhiannon. Of course in 2009 I wanted different songs and I was so thrilled watching Stevie singing Storms. And in 2014 after being at 2 concerts it was time to expect Sister of the Moon and IKINW, and enjoyed!!! But do most of the public go to a Fleetwood Mac concert 3 or 5 times in their lives? . Ledgies do, of course. Common mortals don't.

And concert operating costs are high, so any singer or band are forced to fill seats. Otherwise it will be the last tour.
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