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  #196  
Old 12-20-2018, 04:23 AM
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Mitzo, I saw TOSOTM tour at 5 ampatheaters and the Gold Dust tour at Universal Ampatheater and a casino in Palm Springs. She wasn't regulated to fair or casino circuits. Check the tour dates. She did extra shows at smaller venues. Big difference
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  #197  
Old 12-20-2018, 05:40 AM
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Pat Benatar definitely was a trailblazer. She burst onto the scene with her debut platinum album in 1979 and followed that up with many more platinum albums. She was one of the only artists female or male that could get a top 10 album and pack arenas without even having a top 10 single as she's only had four top 10 singles, her songs were basically played majorly by rock radio. She opened the doors for many many rock and roll females. To say that Pat benatar wasn't groundbreaking, is just naive. She was pure arena Rock! She definitely needs to be inducted. Along with Stevie, Pat was one the biggest female Rock stars of the 80's. As for Kate Bush, she was hugely popular in Europe and critically acclaimed in the United States, but her sales impact here was so minimal I don't think Kate Bush belongs in the Hall of Fame.
You used the correct word "trailblazer." Pat Benatar has achieved things no other rock female has done. During the peak of her career, she recorded a live album during her sold out world "Get Nervous" tour (1982). The live album went platinum and charted #13 on Billboard. I don't believe any female artist, let alone female rock artist ever recorded a live album let alone have that great success with a live album. Also, the tour was so successful that it was recorded for a HBO special and later released on VHS. Just a few months later, she would win a Grammy for best female rock artist.
People get their feelings hurt and bring their personal preferences into who should get into the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame. I never owned any Benatar music until about 20 years ago, I bought a "best of" CD. In the early/mid 80s, I despised her. I felt her success prevented Stevie from getting recognized at music award shows. As a teen, I had a shrine to Fleetwood Mac and Stevie on my bedroom wall. I would take clippings from Hit Parade magazine that claimed Pat "The Queen of Rock" and post those words over a Stevie Nicks photo. She ruled the female rock/pop charts for half a decade. She is someone who I would think would have gotten in within the first year or two.

There should be a standard to get in. Just because someone is your personal favorite is not enough. They should have to be a trailblazer, successful in touring or music, and even a crossover of different kinds of music. Benatar is every one of those things. Benatar has 4 Grammys for best female rock performance. Over her career, she was nominated 8 times, winning half the time.

Its true that Pat does not have the loyal fan base as Stevie or other artists. But that has no bearing on her achievements. I remember when I lived in West Palm Beach in 1998. Stevie was touring with Enchanted and still in the limelight of The Dance. After dismal showings at Street Angel, Stevie was once again filling arenas and concert halls. Pat was touring too and she was announced at some local club. I was shocked. The show got cancelled too. I was not attending the concert but was so surprised she would play such a small venue.
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Last edited by Macfan4life; 12-20-2018 at 06:04 AM..
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  #198  
Old 12-20-2018, 07:06 AM
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Nick shouldn't you be sewing up your costume for next years A Night of a Thousand Stevies? Skip along now.
Never been to one little girl. I see youíre one of those butthurt LB fans. Stay mad. lol
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  #199  
Old 12-20-2018, 07:17 AM
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Street Angel flopped and she did do state fairs. I saw her at the Ohio State fair. Her career tanked. The Dance saved her career. She is extremely lucky.
I saw her there that year, too. I remember reading an article about how/why bigger name acts had been playing state fairs, and it specifically mentioned Stevie Nicks playing at the Ohio State fair. It said that she was paid a huge amount, and one of the reasons she did it was because it was a guaranteed fee, rather than based on attendance, so she would have been paid the same whether there were 2,000 people there or 10,000 people there. The Celeste Center holds just over 10,000, and her concert was a sellout. For that same tour, I think she also played in Ohio at Cincinnati Riverbend amphitheater. I think the Ohio State fair was the only fair she played in, at least that year.
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  #200  
Old 12-20-2018, 07:57 AM
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Bob Dylan and Tom Petty did the California State Fair in 1986 when they were in the midst of touring huge venues.
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  #201  
Old 12-20-2018, 01:17 PM
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I saw her there that year, too. I remember reading an article about how/why bigger name acts had been playing state fairs, and it specifically mentioned Stevie Nicks playing at the Ohio State fair. It said that she was paid a huge amount, and one of the reasons she did it was because it was a guaranteed fee, rather than based on attendance, so she would have been paid the same whether there were 2,000 people there or 10,000 people there. The Celeste Center holds just over 10,000, and her concert was a sellout. For that same tour, I think she also played in Ohio at Cincinnati Riverbend amphitheater. I think the Ohio State fair was the only fair she played in, at least that year.
You saw the Street Angel tour?
Wow, you must have been really young

There was a leg of that tour that was never officially announced but was on the edge of being announced. New small theater in West Palm Beach was going to be played 2 nights. It was in the paper and on the radio. But after the first leg, Stevie got depressed. The album was not selling, attendance was not great, and people were fat shaming her. I was very disappointed I did not get to see her on that tour.
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  #202  
Old 12-20-2018, 01:59 PM
BombaySapphire3 BombaySapphire3 is offline
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You saw the Street Angel tour?
Wow, you must have been really young

There was a leg of that tour that was never officially announced but was on the edge of being announced. New small theater in West Palm Beach was going to be played 2 nights. It was in the paper and on the radio. But after the first leg, Stevie got depressed. The album was not selling, attendance was not great, and people were fat shaming her. I was very disappointed I did not get to see her on that tour.
I saw her once on the Street Angel tour for $17.50 for the first nine rows of seats. She was great vocally better than she had been on any tour in years really and put on a really good show.
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  #203  
Old 12-20-2018, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
You used the correct word "trailblazer." Pat Benatar has achieved things no other rock female has done. During the peak of her career, she recorded a live album during her sold out world "Get Nervous" tour (1982). The live album went platinum and charted #13 on Billboard. I don't believe any female artist, let alone female rock artist ever recorded a live album let alone have that great success with a live album. Also, the tour was so successful that it was recorded for a HBO special and later released on VHS. Just a few months later, she would win a Grammy for best female rock artist.
People get their feelings hurt and bring their personal preferences into who should get into the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame. I never owned any Benatar music until about 20 years ago, I bought a "best of" CD. In the early/mid 80s, I despised her. I felt her success prevented Stevie from getting recognized at music award shows. As a teen, I had a shrine to Fleetwood Mac and Stevie on my bedroom wall. I would take clippings from Hit Parade magazine that claimed Pat "The Queen of Rock" and post those words over a Stevie Nicks photo. She ruled the female rock/pop charts for half a decade. She is someone who I would think would have gotten in within the first year or two.

There should be a standard to get in. Just because someone is your personal favorite is not enough. They should have to be a trailblazer, successful in touring or music, and even a crossover of different kinds of music. Benatar is every one of those things. Benatar has 4 Grammys for best female rock performance. Over her career, she was nominated 8 times, winning half the time.

Its true that Pat does not have the loyal fan base as Stevie or other artists. But that has no bearing on her achievements. I remember when I lived in West Palm Beach in 1998. Stevie was touring with Enchanted and still in the limelight of The Dance. After dismal showings at Street Angel, Stevie was once again filling arenas and concert halls. Pat was touring too and she was announced at some local club. I was shocked. The show got cancelled too. I was not attending the concert but was so surprised she would play such a small venue.
probably because she didn't work it as hard as Stevie did. Like it or not, one of Stevie's greatest talents has been networking inside the industry and working her image. She worked to create a visual image so that people who don't know her music well still know her visual image-- the capes, the top hat, the sexy necklines (in the earlier days), the tambourine etc. She herself identifies with this stage image so much it is the logo of her personal stationery. Her tumultuous personal life has made her a regular in the pop culture/gossip columns-- the breakups within FM, drug use, her high profile romances, etc etc etc. Now the 90s saw how much her physical appearance played a role in her career-- when she got heavy a lot of the casual fan base turned on her, and many of the pop pundits. She knew it. And she worked to get back.

Pat went off the radar for a while having a family and all that. She doesn't seem to have the singular or narcissistic drive that Stevie does. Pat seems to pander to her husband's ego by giving him co-billing and that sort of thing, and that has probably hurt her career too.

So there's a hella lot more that goes into success than just talent. One of Stevie's talents has been keeping herself in the news. Important.
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  #204  
Old 12-20-2018, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
You saw the Street Angel tour?
Wow, you must have been really young

There was a leg of that tour that was never officially announced but was on the edge of being announced. New small theater in West Palm Beach was going to be played 2 nights. It was in the paper and on the radio. But after the first leg, Stevie got depressed. The album was not selling, attendance was not great, and people were fat shaming her. I was very disappointed I did not get to see her on that tour.
I was younger and more innocent

I read a review in one of the local Columbus papers at the time, I think the Guardian, and the critic did nothing but fat shame her. It was not cool, I mean he acknowledged she sounded good and put on a good show, but called her names like 'thunder thighs.' The concert was a sellout, but one of the few sellouts that tour, as you said, neither the album or tour performed to expectations. I 100% agree that if the Dance hadn't happened, Stevie's solo career never would have resurged like it did.

As far as her performance, she did sound really good and her backdrop was pretty cool, too- it looked like they were in an oversized Alice in Wonderland environment. Darden Smith opened for her and the audience was nasty to him, which made me feel badly for him. I don't think the ticket said anything about there being an opening act, so when somebody on stage came out and said something like "Are you ready to see Stevie Nicks?" to roaring applause, he added "Well first, how about a warm welcome to Darden Smith!" And some people literally started booing. At one point he even said "booing me off the stage won't make her come on any earlier." He had one hit, though: Loving Arms. Really good song.
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  #205  
Old 12-20-2018, 03:20 PM
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I saw her there that year, too. I remember reading an article about how/why bigger name acts had been playing state fairs, and it specifically mentioned Stevie Nicks playing at the Ohio State fair. It said that she was paid a huge amount, and one of the reasons she did it was because it was a guaranteed fee, rather than based on attendance, so she would have been paid the same whether there were 2,000 people there or 10,000 people there. The Celeste Center holds just over 10,000, and her concert was a sellout. For that same tour, I think she also played in Ohio at Cincinnati Riverbend amphitheater. I think the Ohio State fair was the only fair she played in, at least that year.
There were a bunch of empty seats. When I was there, we noticed that. If it was a sellout, then a bunch of people didnít show up. She sang Talk to Me and Rooms and she sounded great. She talked about it being her first fair. I think she sang a little song called At the fair.

The Columbus Dispatch gave her great reviews and they rarely gave out good reviews.But they said she put on a tight rock show and she did. It was the best vocals I heard her do. She was really trying. When she introduced Maybe Love she called it a small song.
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  #206  
Old 12-20-2018, 03:59 PM
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There were a bunch of empty seats. When I was there, we noticed that. If it was a sellout, then a bunch of people didn’t show up. She sang Talk to Me and Rooms and she sounded great. She talked about it being her first fair. I think she sang a little song called At the fair.

The Columbus Dispatch gave her great reviews and they rarely gave out good reviews.But they said she put on a tight rock show and she did. It was the best vocals I heard her do. She was really trying. When she introduced Maybe Love she called it a small song.
I could swear the marquee at the center said the show was sold out... thanks for the correction, if it wasn't. We were very close to the stage, like 5th row, so I couldn't tell exactly how packed it was. In Cincinnati, the newspaper review said Riverbend was only half full, like 6500 or so.

I was pleased she sang Talk to Me, Rooms on Fire, and Has Anyone Ever Written. I was also pleased that she only sang Maybe Love, Blue Denim, and Destiny from Street Angel, as those were some of only a handful of songs from that album I liked.

Jondalar, do you remember Darden Smith, the opening act? If you do, I was curious what you thought of him.
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  #207  
Old 12-20-2018, 04:11 PM
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I could swear the marquee at the center said the show was sold out... thanks for the correction, if it wasn't. We were very close to the stage, like 5th row, so I couldn't tell exactly how packed it was. In Cincinnati, the newspaper review said Riverbend was only half full, like 6500 or so.

I was pleased she sang Talk to Me, Rooms on Fire, and Has Anyone Ever Written. I was also pleased that she only sang Maybe Love, Blue Denim, and Destiny from Street Angel, as those were some of only a handful of songs from that album I liked.

Jondalar, do you remember Darden Smith, the opening act? If you do, I was curious what you thought of him.
I donít really remember the opening act that well. Just sort of. What I remember from that concert is her voice sounded great and she sounded so great on Talk to Me, a hard song to sing. Iíve never heard her sing it in concert again. Rooms sounded great to. I was sort of sad because I thought her careers was over.
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  #208  
Old 12-20-2018, 04:48 PM
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I saw the SA tour 3 times. Once at Irvine Meadow's Ampatheater, and twice at the Greek Theater. All 3 packed. I'm 51 now, so I was 27.
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  #209  
Old 12-20-2018, 05:35 PM
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probably because she didn't work it as hard as Stevie did. Like it or not, one of Stevie's greatest talents has been networking inside the industry and working her image. She worked to create a visual image so that people who don't know her music well still know her visual image-- the capes, the top hat, the sexy necklines (in the earlier days), the tambourine etc. She herself identifies with this stage image so much it is the logo of her personal stationery. Her tumultuous personal life has made her a regular in the pop culture/gossip columns-- the breakups within FM, drug use, her high profile romances, etc etc etc. Now the 90s saw how much her physical appearance played a role in her career-- when she got heavy a lot of the casual fan base turned on her, and many of the pop pundits. She knew it. And she worked to get back.

Pat went off the radar for a while having a family and all that. She doesn't seem to have the singular or narcissistic drive that Stevie does. Pat seems to pander to her husband's ego by giving him co-billing and that sort of thing, and that has probably hurt her career too.

So there's a hella lot more that goes into success than just talent. One of Stevie's talents has been keeping herself in the news. Important.
You can love Pat or hate Pat but false statements about her make no sense. Stevie worked harder than Pat? Oh hell no. While Stevie worked hard, she also played very hard and also was very lucky to get invited into a super group.
Pat did slow down when she had kids but her work ethic was insane. From 1979 to 1985 she released a full studio album EVERY year and toured. Pat also had to deal with things that Stevie never did. Because Pat was a solo artist, good looking, and trained in Opera, no one took her serious.
Stevie had lots of help.
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  #210  
Old 12-20-2018, 05:53 PM
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You can love Pat or hate Pat but false statements about her make no sense. Stevie worked harder than Pat? Oh hell no. While Stevie worked hard, she also played very hard and also was very lucky to get invited into a super group.
Pat did slow down when she had kids but her work ethic was insane. From 1979 to 1985 she released a full studio album EVERY year and toured. Pat also had to deal with things that Stevie never did. Because Pat was a solo artist, good looking, and trained in Opera, no one took her serious.
Stevie had lots of help.
For the record, I think Pat Benatar should be inducted into the HoF. I like her music a lot, although my collection is limited to Wide Awake in Dreamland, one of her 2 CD sets, and her latest live cd/dvd combo. I've owned two of her other albums but found most of the non-singles to be unmemorable and filler. Your point that she released an album every year from 1979-1985 might have hurt her credibility a little bit, possibly. Churning out an album every year is not something I think most people consider as a good reason for someone to be inducted.

I also think you're taking the comment that Stevie worked harder than Pat too literally. Pat has never said seemed to strive for stardom, but Stevie totally has. That quest for stardom is definitely something Stevie has worked harder for than Pat And yes, Stevie totally had an advantage over Pat by being in Fleetwood Mac. Stevie has a high powered manager, too.

Just my 2 cents.
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