What you don't like of Lindsey music.

[Les]

Oops, still a few thoughts bubbling up...about the albums and what they reveal about Lindsey.

I don't feel like any one of his albums doesn't represent him in a very tangible way. In fact, I think Law & Order, Go Insane, and Out of the Cradle all communicate a similar sort of almost socio-political view that says a lot about Lindsey the person, even though each album is dressed up quite differently from its predecessor.

Take Law & Order's songs collectively and see how many of them touch upon the idea of personal integrity - committment to family, friends, values, trying to do the right thing. The title is all about that. The covers he selected for that album are all about that. "Mary Lee Jones" is about a woman who has lost that because she's lost herself. "Johnny Stew", an incredibly funny/goofy song, is, at its heart, about the cruelty of a world that has left a man of integrity, John Stewart, out in the cold. Given this context, I think "I'll Tell You Now" is also indirectly about Lindsey's own feelings about wondering how to fit in a world that doesn't much reflect what he thinks is important.

Look at the songs from Go Insane. In microcosm, they're about a painfully failed relationship. In a broader sense, they're also about valuing committment, responsibility to self and others & love, and trying to deal with the feelings of the loss of control when those things don't last - when those core values and desires don't seem to be able to find a foothold in the crazy world. None of these are preachy songs in any respect, but they're very internal conflicts about the successes and failures he seems to see in himself in pursuing these values. Even for all the sexual innuendo in a song like "Loving Cup", it is still a song about wanting committment reciprocated in the same strong way that he feels it.

Out of the Cradle does this too. So many of the songs seem to touch upon the idea of rediscoverying himself, his values, after a period of having felt like he lost touch with them. I'd say this one is more sober than Law & Order, certainly, but not nessecarily more "serious" - as I think Law & Order was just as serious about its underlying values too. Again, Cradle seems to touch upon the pressures of life that intrude upon what he wishes it could be, and he ruminates on the successes and failures against the measuring stick of committment, family, friends, values, responsibility.

I think a similar type of theme can also be seen underlying many of his Mac songs. That's how I see them anyway.

[Johnny Stew]

Wow, excellent post, Gaius!
Many of the points you made are the exact reason I tell non Mac-fans that if they'd just get over the prejudice that Fleetwood Mac is some outdated pop band, they'd realize that there truly is something for just about everyone in this band's catalogue.

It's another reason I don't get into the bashing that sometimes occurs, and why I don't like to pit Stevie & Lindsey against each other, or Christine.
It's no secret that I have a preference towards Stevie, but there's so much to love about Christine & Lindsey too. And as a group, they're damn-near unstoppable.

A few comments on your post....
I can see why you, and anyone, would feel that Lindsey's music is the most diverse within Fleetwood Mac.
I tend to think sometimes that he's too self-conscious in his attempts at diversity though, but that's ok.
I've told my friend Anne that she's "self-consciously non-conformist," and sometimes that seems to fit Lindsey too.
Individuality is a VERY good thing, but it's always best when it's not forced or over-thought.

Stevie was once quoted as saying (I'm paraphrasing here), "If you tell Lindsey something he's working on sounds similar to something he's done before, he'll tear it apart and go in a completely different direction."

I love that Lindsey has an offbeat approach to making music... in fact, I don't think you can be a Buckingham fan without having an appreciation for that aspect of his creativity... but I've always felt that production touches... even the most avant-garde ones... should be done to benefit the song. Not just for the sake of being different.

Originally posted by face of glass
“Say Goodbye” could easily be “When I See You Again (Lindsey’s version)”... A perfect object of worship for the Buckingham/Nicks romantics. FM did this with “WISYA” earlier; a very simple arrangement, focusing on Stevie’s voice, just contributes to the drama. And then there’s Lindsey’s vocals that sound very distant during the fade-out. So why not do it again with “Say Goodbye”? That’s what the romantics want and that’s obviously what Johnny Stew wants. After all, JS, we know that “When I See You Again” is still your favourite Stevie song and it’s the simplicity of it all that does it for you.

Not sure if you have this misconception or not, but I just wanted to clear it up in case you did... I'm not a Lindsey & Stevie Romantic.
I think the mercurial nature of their relationship has made for some great music and performances, and for that reason I dig it... but I'm not hoping they someday get together, or wondering if they're carrying on a clandestine affair.

Not that there's anything wrong with the folks who do that... we all need a little romance in our lives, after all!

Also, "When I See You Again" isn't my "favorite" song... though I can see why people might think that!
It is definitely in the Top Five though.

Even still, that wasn't the song I had in mind when talking about "Say Goodbye." I was thinking more along the lines of "Never Going Back Again." Something that could give the vocal melody and harmonies room to breathe.

Again, terrific post, Gaius! VERY insightful, and a must-read.

(By the way, you might be surprised to know that one of my favorite L.B. songs has always been "The Ledge." )

[face of glass]

Ah, the Christmas rush. No time to post when you want to. And the Ledge can be down sometimes too. Sorry about that; I won’t be digging up this old stuff anymore.

But Johnny Stew deserves a proper answer, as usual:

I tend to think sometimes that he's too self-conscious in his attempts at diversity though, but that's ok...
Individuality is a VERY good thing, but it's always best when it's not forced or over-thought.[/b]

I agree about Lindsey’s self-consciousness. I sometimes get this feeling of some ideas of his being “forced”; they can just jump at me and startle me. It was a bit like that with “Say Goodbye” too; I didn’t feel instantly comfortable with that guitar percussion and the fast tempo. However, I’ve always felt that if there’s something for me to like in a track, it will eventually win me over. Go Insane may be dated in the terms of tone colours but otherwise I have no problem enjoying it. With “Say Goodbye” I got over certain things very fast. But I agree that music should often appeal to one naturally; you shouldn’t force yourself to like it.

Yes, individuality can be “forced or over-thought” (God knows how many times I’ve been guilty of that). But when you’re doing works of art, plenty of them, you’re bound to start repeating yourself if something/someone doesn’t shake you up once in a while. Stevie is very natural in her writing but I’ve always felt that she too often presents the same thing from a different angle and it can wear me off. But it’s my problem, I have my preferences in this band’s canon too.

I've always felt that production touches... even the most avant-garde ones... should be done to benefit the song. Not just for the sake of being different.

I understand. If it’s “songs” you’re after, then I accept your viewpoint with no qualms whatsoever. When I listen to music I’m not always after songs though. A simple keyboard drone can be enough, provided that it creates an atmosphere I haven’t heard before. If it creates a picture of something into my mind, if it makes my back shiver or if it moves me in any way, then it’s good for me.
Les said it better and in a much more up-to-the-point way than I ever could, but I’ll try this again: Lindsey can often work like an abstract painter. He may not try to create a portrait with a single song; he’s just trying to grab a particular random/senseless/significant moment into a recording. In Les’ site LB says the following on the “Artwork” page:

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the Jackson Pollock paintings before he threw away his brushes? They’re making this attempt to get to this sense of something, and he can feel it with his body and he can see it in his mind and he’s not getting there! And then suddenly, one day, he says, “Well, screw this!” And he throws the canvas down on the floor and he starts dripping paint on it and you see this tremendous sense of release and energy! And that’s, you know, a fairly apt analogy, I think, to what can happen in music as well if you sort of break through barriers and find new ways to work with colors.

That, I think, is what happened to Lindsey too, when he went from Rumours to Tusk.

Not sure if you have this misconception or not, but I just wanted to clear it up in case you did... I'm not a Lindsey & Stevie Romantic.

I knew you aren’t, although my post may have suggested that. And I’d like to apologize to all romantics who may have read the previous post; I do not think that you people are “cheap sentimentalists” or whatever. I just got way too carried away with the whole thing.

Even still, that wasn't the song I had in mind when talking about "Say Goodbye." I was thinking more along the lines of "Never Going Back Again." Something that could give the vocal melody and harmonies room to breathe.

“Never Going Back Again” has, for me, a sense of bitterness. As Les suggested, Lindsey likes to run two or more emotions alongside. Therefore it makes sense that the playful arrangement of “NGBA” goes with those lyrics. With “Say Goodbye”, the lyric of which communicates mainly sadness to me, the same approach wouldn’t work, at least for me.
And I think it’s also about the vocals too. Stevie is more convincing in slow ballads of this type than Lindsey; “When I See You Again” appears as simplistic with those lyrics, but when that woman is using that voice of hers it immediately clicks, because she has that songwriting-voice-and-lyrics relationship. If Lindsey was to approach “Say Goodbye” in a very stripped-down manner then I would probably lose a lot of my interest. The same goes for “Save Me A Place”; if it didn’t have those harmonies the tune would be a time-waster on Tusk.
So, “Say Goodbye” communicates sadness, loss, things like that. The fact that he put it in a faster tempo immediately makes clear that this isn’t your usual “sad song”. The “rush” of it all tells me that the two lovers have to separate quickly; that the whole song and the whole separation is just a natural thing to get over with. That’s what life can be like; we don’t always have the time to wallow in a certain emotional state like “When I See You Again” seems to suggest.
The fact that Lindsey put these weird harmonies and these percussive sounds to the song is similar to a way a cameraman would use a filter on a camera. “When I See You Again” shows us Stevie with no filter at all, completely bare before us. LB hides behind his arrangement and shows us that he’s not totally through with the separation. These “bells and whistles” give us a distorted picture, one that’s not as clear as the one in “When I See You Again”. But it’s not any less moving for me.
Yes, I definitely read too much into things there.
I honour Les’ posts. She obviously reads into Lindsey’s music more than I do; a song that I may brush off as “fun” or “lightweight” will mean more to her. And the fact that she’s capable of looking at Lindsey’s albums as a whole, as a continuation of the same thread, is impressive. So, even “Steal Your Heart Away” isn’t that obvious, even though I still may think so.
In the end I agree with Johnny Stew; pop music shouldn’t be that easily brushed off as “shallow” or “just-for-kicks”.

(By the way, you might be surprised to know that one of my favorite L.B. songs has always been "The Ledge." ) [/B]

It just goes to show that "no one falls into a simple set of labels".

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by AliP
I don't like how it sometimes appears that he is still stuck in the 80s. I hate those weird background echoing voices he loves to still use. I think you can hear a little bit of it in EFO. Also don't like "Smile at You" how he thought having Stevie going "ahh, ahh, ahhhhh, etc" during the chorus was a good idea. yuk.

Ditto.

Also, ironically enough, I hate "The Ledge."

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by trackaghost
But saying that, I know almost as many people who felt the same way about Steal Your Heart Away. For some it was a wonderful, sweet tune and for others they thought it was too sugary and throwaway.

then they're missing the point. STHA is very bittersweet and sad if you listen to it closely. Achingly beautiful song, especially when Lindsey plays it unaccompanied and acoustic only.

[wondergirl9847]

Well, you can all gang up on me and talk smack, but I love every damn thing he's ever done. I have this crazy, twisted mind that finds the good in every song he's done.

He's the ONLY artist that I feel that way about. I can find fault with other singers/songwriters/guitarists/groups (etc.), but with Lindsey, he's really captured my heart (in more ways than one obviously. LOL).

Even on Mirage, which is STILL a terrific album despite all the smack talked about it, IMO, I love his songs, even Empire State, which has the coolest plink plink sound and his voice is really unusual too.

Totally off topic: One of the coolest things that I heard at all the concerts I went to on this tour was his voice, the way he breaks his voice. Seteca knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's the way a country artist sings, if they are PURE COUNTRY. It's like a yodel, but not a full on yodel.

So, if I were to dig deep and say what I don't like about Lindsey's music, I'd say that I don't like that he only has THREE solo albums out.

What a cop-out, eh? I'm so friggin enamoured by this man, and after seeing him in concert 6 times and getting to strum his guitar, getting pointed to, eye contact and smiles from him, my admiration is even MORE intense now. No, he's not the Messiah, he's just my favorite artist in the world.

[madformac]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
Well, you can all gang up on me and talk smack, but I love every damn thing he's ever done. I have this crazy, twisted mind that finds the good in every song he's done.

He's the ONLY artist that I feel that way about. I can find fault with other singers/songwriters/guitarists/groups (etc.), but with Lindsey, he's really captured my heart (in more ways than one obviously. LOL).


I'm so friggin enamoured by this man, and after seeing him in concert 6 times and getting to strum his guitar, getting pointed to, eye contact and smiles from him, my admiration is even MORE intense now. No, he's not the Messiah, he's just my favorite artist in the world.

Hahahaaaaa.. Nice to have you back on the Buckingham forum Wondergirl... the 3 weeks without your posts here have been rather black and white... Now the colour has exploded once again!!

Welcome back girl..

[wondergirl9847]

Thanks MFM!! I've missed so much, but now I'm back with my crazy commentary and blatant positive fandom of Mr. Buckingham...or Buckinghum.

[seteca]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
One of the coolest things that I heard at all the concerts I went to on this tour was his voice, the way he breaks his voice. Seteca knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's the way a country artist sings, if they are PURE COUNTRY. It's like a yodel, but not a full on yodel.

Yep...it's awesome. The greatest example EVER is the way he says "when the liars come around" during "Say Goodbye" on the opening night of the SYW Tour in Colombus. Listen to the word "when".

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
No, he's not the Messiah, he's just my favorite artist in the world.

Hmmm....I wonder if I should contact my lawyer to take action for breach of copyright....



(Private joke)

[shackin'up]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
No, he's not the Messiah

shall we start an argue about that?


welcome back!

[wondergirl9847]

Originally posted by seteca
Hmmm....I wonder if I should contact my lawyer to take action for breach of copyright....



(Private joke)

LMAO!!! Sorry, if I could find the friggin copyright symbol, I'd make the correction.

[seteca]

"I don't think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread and I don't believe he's the next Messiah, but he is a musical genius and my favourite artist of all time."

&copy Seteca, 2003.

[wondergirl9847]

*sticks tongue out*

Nah nah.

LOL

So, to all Ledgies, if you use the Lindsey = Messiah comparison thingy (LMAO!!), please credit Seteca with a copyright.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847


Totally off topic: One of the coolest things that I heard at all the concerts I went to on this tour was his voice, the way he breaks his voice. Seteca knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's the way a country artist sings, if they are PURE COUNTRY. It's like a yodel, but not a full on yodel.

I know exactly what you're talking about. The first time I noticed it was a live 1975 performance of Blue Letter: "Do I reh-heed the message in your eyes, you wahn-hna love to stay another night." I can't really write it out but he does it where those dashes are and it is SOOO country!