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  #31  
Old 10-23-2020, 01:16 AM
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HomerMcvie HomerMcvie is offline
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
I think she didn’t want IDWTK because it was an older song and she would rather have a fresh song of hers on there.
I wonder what $he considers fresh now?

1985?

That stuff's turned rancid.
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  #32  
Old 10-23-2020, 07:13 AM
John Run John Run is offline
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For me I Don't Want to Know being an older song further pushes my curiosity / suspicion about the song. We all know those early songs were created during the time of closeness between Lindsey and Stevie and he spent days, weeks, and months working on her songs, as she worked odd jobs to support his production habit. As Lindsey has said the line between production and co-writing on Stevie's songs was pretty blurry.

To me there are some undeniable Lindseyisms in that song, phrasing, lyrical crutches, progressions, etc.

Mick says Lindsey, "we aren't using Silver Springs, what else we got that we can work up and present to Stevie as an option? How about the song you did the demo of with unfinished verses?"

All speculation and just good fun.

Last edited by John Run; 10-23-2020 at 07:41 AM..
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  #33  
Old 10-24-2020, 09:46 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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All speculation and just good fun.
It is good fun. I can see Crystal being a Nicks penned song. I can't stand her more current version. Way too nasal. So I'm glad LB sang the beautiful FM version. He presents the song way better than she does.

But, IDWK does have so many Lindsey isms. "I just want you to feel fine." There's a simplicity to it that screams Buckingham. It's the cousin of Second Hand News and half brother of Never Going Back Again. I've always loved this song and wished they'd had done it live. I wonder why she wouldn't sing it. Maybe it was too nasal like Crystal.
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  #34  
Old 10-24-2020, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
It is good fun. I can see Crystal being a Nicks penned song. I can't stand her more current version. Way too nasal. So I'm glad LB sang the beautiful FM version. He presents the song way better than she does.

But, IDWK does have so many Lindsey isms. "I just want you to feel fine." There's a simplicity to it that screams Buckingham. It's the cousin of Second Hand News and half brother of Never Going Back Again. I've always loved this song and wished they'd had done it live. I wonder why she wouldn't sing it. Maybe it was too nasal like Crystal.
I think that there is a live bootleg version of them doing it together from the Buckingham Nicks days.
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  #35  
Old 10-24-2020, 12:18 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by soul_drifter333 View Post
I think that there is a live bootleg version of them doing it together from the Buckingham Nicks days.
I've heard it. It's not half bad. I wish Mick and John and Christine were on it.
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  #36  
Old 10-24-2020, 04:08 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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I just think that Lindsey would’ve taken credit for the song, if he thought he did anything but arrange it. Frozen Love shows he knew how to do that back then.

Stevie has said that she has tried to write like Lindsey before when he said some of her poetic lyrics made him sick. In those instances, she tried to be less flowery, but it didn’t feel authentic for her. She may have done that with IDWTK and that may be another reason why she doesn’t like it so much.
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  #37  
Old 10-24-2020, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
I just think that Lindsey would’ve taken credit for the song, if he thought he did anything but arrange it. Frozen Love shows he knew how to do that back then.
i don't know. he didn't take co-writing or producing credit for many songs that others would have. he said recently (during BuckVie promotion i think?) when people asked them about all the co-writes he and Christine did, how many of their early FM songs were probably co-writes too, but he didn't think of taking credit for them at the time.

that said, i was always surprised he took co-writing credit for Frozen Love considering his pattern at the time.
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  #38  
Old 10-24-2020, 07:58 PM
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I can believe Stevie wrote IDWK all by herself, including the chords. Her most solid songs (in terms of their shape before being arranged and recorded) are her earliest. “That’s Alright” is another well-crafted country pop song. These two tubes along with “Landslide,” “Lady,” and “Crystal” show us where she might have gone had she not been swept up in the Rhiannon mystique.

I have said a 10000 times I think IDWK was chosen over SS primarily because it’s an upbeat tune with vocal presence for Lindsey. His voice is the one that unifies the contrasting women’s vocals and balances the female presence on the record. He reminds us Fleetwood Mac is first and foremost a rock band with blues and testosterone-heavy roots. Christine and Stevie’s songs and voices may have been far more distinctive and marketable on the whole, but they worked best to temper and stabilize Lindsey’s high-strung energy. Both the women seduce, soothe, and persuade (in their respective ways) whereas Lindsey rouses and agitates.

If IDWK wasn’t in the running order, the album wouldn’t have worked this balance as nicely. The one-two punch of YMLF and IDWK, following the searing guitar breakout of “The Chain“ push Rumours to the heights of its momentum, followed by the mournful dirge of “Oh Daddy” and then the eerie, mystical coda of GDW. It’s an impeccably sequenced record.

And, quite simply, IDWK embodies the desperate ethos of Rumours better than any other song. Those two gorgeous voices harmonizing their agony to what amounts to an Appalachian folk tune framed as California pop—that is serious genius.

I have always liked IDWK far better than the original “Silver Springs.” The 1997 version is a whole other matter. She grew into the song, became worthy of its epic pretensions.
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  #39  
Old 10-24-2020, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
I can believe Stevie wrote IDWK all by herself, including the chords. Her most solid songs (in terms of their shape before being arranged and recorded) are her earliest. “That’s Alright” is another well-crafted country pop song. These two tubes along with “Landslide,” “Lady,” and “Crystal” show us where she might have gone had she not been swept up in the Rhiannon mystique. .
yes, definitely.

so either:
  1. she was the best at the start of her career, and somehow drifted off later , forgot all the chords and arrangements and could never repeat it (there are many entertainers like that), or
  2. her early / pre-FM songs were heavily worked on by Lindsey so you can't know where he begins and she ends - and she did not want to let him get away with doing whatever he wanted with her songs after they broke up.
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  #40  
Old 10-24-2020, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
I can believe Stevie wrote IDWK all by herself, including the chords. Her most solid songs (in terms of their shape before being arranged and recorded) are her earliest. “That’s Alright” is another well-crafted country pop song. These two tubes along with “Landslide,” “Lady,” and “Crystal” show us where she might have gone had she not been swept up in the Rhiannon mystique.

I have said a 10000 times I think IDWK was chosen over SS primarily because it’s an upbeat tune with vocal presence for Lindsey. His voice is the one that unifies the contrasting women’s vocals and balances the female presence on the record. He reminds us Fleetwood Mac is first and foremost a rock band with blues and testosterone-heavy roots. Christine and Stevie’s songs and voices may have been far more distinctive and marketable on the whole, but they worked best to temper and stabilize Lindsey’s high-strung energy. Both the women seduce, soothe, and persuade (in their respective ways) whereas Lindsey rouses and agitates.

If IDWK wasn’t in the running order, the album wouldn’t have worked this balance as nicely. The one-two punch of YMLF and IDWK, following the searing guitar breakout of “The Chain“ push Rumours to the heights of its momentum, followed by the mournful dirge of “Oh Daddy” and then the eerie, mystical coda of GDW. It’s an impeccably sequenced record.

And, quite simply, IDWK embodies the desperate ethos of Rumours better than any other song. Those two gorgeous voices harmonizing their agony to what amounts to an Appalachian folk tune framed as California pop—that is serious genius.

I have always liked IDWK far better than the original “Silver Springs.” The 1997 version is a whole other matter. She grew into the song, became worthy of its epic pretensions.
All of this. Though I think the original Silver Springs is nice and COULD have fit into the album somewhere, I can't imagine Rumours without I Don't Want to Know. It's one of my favorite songs of Stevie's and on Rumours in general. How they have never played it live is beyond me.

The '97 version of SS is absolutely superior to the original -- from the borrowed intro from Wish You Were Here to the revised ending, they nailed that arrangement.
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  #41  
Old 10-25-2020, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
yes, definitely.

so either:
  1. she was the best at the start of her career, and somehow drifted off later , forgot all the chords and arrangements and could never repeat it (there are many entertainers like that), or
  2. her early / pre-FM songs were heavily worked on by Lindsey so you can't know where he begins and she ends - and she did not want to let him get away with doing whatever he wanted with her songs after they broke up.
Or a little of both. Stevie really ends in 1983 for me. She might have a good song here or there, but TWH was the last batch of consistently good new songs she’s made.

What’s sad is Blue Denim, Maybe Love..., and Destiny would have been great contributions to a Fleetwood Mac album.
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  #42  
Old 10-25-2020, 09:38 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
yes, definitely.

so either:
  1. she was the best at the start of her career, and somehow drifted off later , forgot all the chords and arrangements and could never repeat it (there are many entertainers like that), or
  2. her early / pre-FM songs were heavily worked on by Lindsey so you can't know where he begins and she ends - and she did not want to let him get away with doing whatever he wanted with her songs after they broke up.
I honestly think when she wasn't feeding her ego, (1973-1983) she was writing fantastic melodies and lyrics that someone else would ultimately morph into something fantastic.

As time went on, she was very hit and miss. I get to be the boss!
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Last edited by jbrownsjr; 10-25-2020 at 09:46 AM..
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  #43  
Old 10-25-2020, 12:57 PM
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On Stevie's writing, I think a journey through what we know is still in the vault shows that yes, she was writing fantastic melodies and lyrics: The Rhiannon songs, China Doll, Sanctuary etc. There is an old review out there somewhere of Buckingham Nicks that makes note of her skill in combining chords and melody. This is true of her writing (even pre-73 to 84) noting she had some good songs pre Rock a Little production. A combination of drug use and inflated sense of "everything I write is a classic", lead to the sharp decline in quality and consistency.

So, I believe I Don't Want to Know is hers but with a lot of Lindsey input to hone it into a fantastic song. Nothing different from Dreams or Gold Dust Woman and later Gypsy and Straight Back.
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  #44  
Old 10-25-2020, 07:21 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by On Ice View Post
On Stevie's writing, I think a journey through what we know is still in the vault shows that yes, she was writing fantastic melodies and lyrics: The Rhiannon songs, China Doll, Sanctuary etc. There is an old review out there somewhere of Buckingham Nicks that makes note of her skill in combining chords and melody. This is true of her writing (even pre-73 to 84) noting she had some good songs pre Rock a Little production. A combination of drug use and inflated sense of "everything I write is a classic", lead to the sharp decline in quality and consistency.

So, I believe I Don't Want to Know is hers but with a lot of Lindsey input to hone it into a fantastic song. Nothing different from Dreams or Gold Dust Woman and later Gypsy and Straight Back.
I always felt like she and McVie worked on Straight Back together. I like the two of them together.
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