Who Has Given Up ??

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Good for him? how does the saying go, work smarter not harder?

Okay, but don’t get pissed off when the one who worked harder got inducted for a second time.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by saniette

I just don't see what the numbers are supposed to prove? Being prolific isn't always a good thing. Lots of artists release albums at a slower pace, and so what? I know plenty of people that would be better served waiting longer between albums, Stevie among them.

Agreed as multi-talented as Prince was and as much as I loved him, his album releases were ridiculous and the sheer volume lessened the value of the work. Sometimes crafting is good. Of course, one can go overboard with finessing the same song too long, too.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I am not sure why nine musicians in a solo set is bad. I didn’t need the wall of guitars, but I don’t think they detracted from his own musicianship either. They enhanced it. I will never forget how Doing What I Can first came to life for me live, not on the record.

Be that as it may, Stevie had like eight extra musicians, lounge act; Christine had five extra musicians, lounge act; Lindsey had nine extra musicians, total artistic experienc. Huh? By comparison, Richard Thompson tours either as a (completely) solo guitarist/vocalist or as a trio.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Okay, but don’t get pissed off when the one who worked harder got inducted for a second time.

I don’t Think many people believe Lindsey should be inducted into the RRHOF for his solo work. And Lindsey didn’t call them lounge artists because of the number of musicians they had with them, it was because of what those musicians were doing or not doing and the caliber of their work. I say that with a nod to Carlos.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Be that as it may, Stevie had like eight extra musicians, lounge act; Christine had five extra musicians, lounge act; Lindsey had nine extra musicians, total artistic experienc. Huh? By comparison, Richard Thompson tours either as a (completely) solo guitarist/vocalist or as a trio.

I quibble with your definition of lounge act, sir.

Aside from that, who cares. No one denies that Lindsey was critical of FM. He’s always got something to say.

[saniette]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Whatever. That doesn’t change the fact that when The Genius decided to tour (about a year after His magnum opus/flop came out), He still needed about as many musicians as Stevie.

But he didn't "need" as many musicians, that's what he chose to do. The guitar army was a weird idea, but it wasn't a necessity from a musical standpoint. Stevie really needs all those musicians on stage.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Well, she still has two more…

Actually, He still has the fewest overall studio releases of any of the classic lineup, or even present lineup, but who am I to judge?


And yet He’s still in last place.

Music isn't a competition though, so math is only going to take you so far here. You can't prove/disprove your opinions in music by citing numbers. Quantity of output doesn't prove anything, other than Stevie was more career-focused. And she deserves credit for that, but that also comes at a price too, such as chasing commercial success a little too much in the 80s. This has dated a lot of her output (hence nothing performed post-1983 at the RRHOF).

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

They never critiqued Him.

You mean in public? I'm sure they have critiqued Him plenty in private

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

So, you’re saying that OOTC and the various GOS songs benefited from being sat on for a half decade or more? I mean, Lindsey left in 1987, and OOTC came out five years later. Did those songs age well? Were they remotely relevant in 1992, save for maybe the Starbucks crowd, which wasn’t a thing back then???

Did “Steal Your Heart Away” sound better in 2003 than it did in 1998? Did any of those songs benefit from at least a five year wait?

I'll give you this for the GOS material, but who knows what OOTC songs would have sounded like if Lindsey rush released them? One of the impressive things about that album is the production, and maybe time was needed for that. Lindsey has always been a studio perfectionist for better or worse. I agree that he should have released OOTC sooner, as by 1992 an album like this was never going to sell (post-Nirvana and all that). I don't think it ever would have been a huge success though, even in 1988.

I still can't give you this point, though, as none of Stevie's, Christine's or FM's output after TITN has aged well. If we're going to be completely honest, nothing Stevie has done after her first solo album has aged particularly well. Some great songs, but the 80s production dates much of it (and to forestall any criticism, of course "Go Insane" suffers from this as well). And none of her recent output is very memorable.

So why is the whole contrarian thing strictly against Lindsey? Let's discuss Christine's great solo career while we're at it.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don’t Think many people believe Lindsey should be inducted into the RRHOF for his solo work. And Lindsey didn’t call them lounge artists because of the number of musicians they had with them, it was because of what those musicians were doing or not doing and the caliber of their work. I say that with a nod to Carlos.

Yeah, those comments predated Carlos. We’re talking like pre-TITN, before he actually tried it himself (and preceded to perform “The Chain” as a solo artist, with no sense of irony as the kiddies around here like to say these days).

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

oh laaawwd lets play numbers with steve again. LOL I dont even care enough to go down that rabbit hole plus I wouldnt want to be told to "go away" again. LMAO....

Yeah, facts and what not…

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by button-lip

Seven studio albums, ten tours and tons of cocaine

That’s the thing, though. In that time, she kicked cocaine AND klonopin. She went from her peak to her absolute worst to her redemption.

What did Lindsey do during that time?

Plus, are people not allowed to have had low points? Or, do those just always get to be thrown back at them? (Sometimes even I am allowed to fall.)

[HomerMcvie]

Good god, I wish I had a bullet right now. Y'all are f**king exhausting.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Agreed as multi-talented as Prince was and as much as I loved him, his album releases were ridiculous and the sheer volume lessened the value of the work. Sometimes crafting is good. Of course, one can go overboard with finessing the same song too long, too.

I can’t speak to Prince, but you know who I used to work for. My attitude is that if he releases five albums a year and there are three great songs per release, that’s still 15 great songs a year. I’ll take that any time over one album released between 1987-03.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Elton John criticized Billy Joel for not making new albums, his response was "Elton needs to make fewer albums"

Which proves my theory that Elton John is the only person who thinks Billy Joel should make a new album.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I quibble with your definition of lounge act, sir.

Not mine, His. He did everything He criticized Stevie for doing. He used a bunch of extra musicians and did Fleetwood Mac songs. Literally no difference. He failed to meet his own standards.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by saniette

But he didn't "need" as many musicians, that's what he chose to do. The guitar army was a weird idea, but it wasn't a necessity from a musical standpoint. Stevie really needs all those musicians on stage.

Yeah, but again, he was the one calling the others lounge acts and proceeded to do exactly the same thing.

I'll give you this for the GOS material, but who knows what OOTC songs would have sounded like if Lindsey rush released them?

Five years, though? “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” was recorded in six months and “Pet Sounds” in nine months. It’s not like a lot of OOTC wasn’t derivative of his past work. It was hardly revolutionary, broke much new ground, shed any new light on Lindsey, or warranted a five year wait. It sounded a lot like Tango II, which if you think about the Tusk-after-Rumours storyline, is something of a betrayal. I mean, I’m supposed to accept that His Genius is a genius for breaking the mold after Rumours, but did something completely within the mold thirteen years later, after a five year absence?

I still can't give you this point, though, as none of Stevie's, Christine's or FM's output after TITN has aged well.

I think John’s album and ITM aged better than the rest, but they have a timeless quality to them. They’re not monster, revolutionary albums, nor were they trying to be, but they’re not embarrassing.

So why is the whole contrarian thing strictly against Lindsey? Let's discuss Christine's great solo career while we're at it.

What solo career? She’s Fleetwood Mac. That’s her brand. She only made one solo album during her tenure with Fleetwood Mac, which the label pressured her into, and it yielded a top ten single, another top 40 single, and peaked at #26 (compared to the highest charting album by the genius, at #32).

The other two solo albums were done in some state of retirement and really should be judged accordingly. That said, I enjoyed them.

And, it should be noted that she had eight albums under her belt, not including her session work, prior to 1975.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Not mine, His. He did everything He criticized Stevie for doing. He used a bunch of extra musicians and did Fleetwood Mac songs. Literally no difference. He failed to meet his own standards.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Yeah, those comments predated Carlos. We’re talking like pre-TITN, before he actually tried it himself (and preceded to perform “The Chain” as a solo artist, with no sense of irony as the kiddies around here like to say these days).

But he didn’t criticize them for having a bunch of musicians.

If Lindsey had toured with Tango he was going to have extra musicians with FM himself. In those days he always wanted the fuller sound. He eventually found out he could not continue to afford it. He was forced to pare down for financial reasons.

The sheer number of musicians had nothing to do with the “lounge act” aspersions he cast. It’s the way the musicians were utilized. It’s the same thing with the microphone. Lindsey did not say that Stevie was Vegas because she used the microphone, she says he said she was Vegas because of HOW she used it.

But you invented an argument where none existed. I said that the break up in 1987 was less acrimonious than this one and you responded by saying that Lindsey criticized the band in 1987. Yes he did but he also reached out to remain friends with them. That’s why he was at Mick’s wedding in the first place, giving you the opportunity to happily supply us with a picture of it. And when he appeared at the BTM shows, Mick introduced him as if he was one of the band. Fast forward to today when if he appeared at one of the shows they’d probably have security arrest him and throw him out.