Trying Something New

David · #1 03-13-2003, 12:02 AM

Lindsey has referred repeatedly to the goal of some of his new picking & layering techniques used on his solo material (which got turned into this newest Fleetwood Mac album)---of wanting to make one guitar (or two guitars at most) do the work of a whole track using more experimental fingerpicking & sharper, more defined arrangements, as well as trying to create a very percussive, drum-like energy with the guitars. And you can hear this approach exactly in "Red Rover" & "Try for the Sun" & "Say Goodbye" & some others. He also relied on this new technique of his when he played the George Harrison song at the tribute on ABC last year.

I can't help thinking that this new instrumental dynamic is going to play some part in what Lindsey means by "trying something new" for a specific segment of the Fleetwood Mac show.

chiliD · #2 03-13-2003, 12:29 AM

All this "new" picking stuff is just an extension of what he started with his solo version of "Big Love". Taking the technological things he experimented with on that to an absurd level...like taking the hex pickup of the Roland VG-8 and sending the signal from EACH STRING thru different fx loops. (as he talked about in one of the "guitar-nerd"* magazine articles) He did that with "Big Love", but so stealthily that because we only SEE "one man, one guitar" (and one that is supposedly "acoustic"), but what's actually happening is the sound signal is being routed through tons of signal processing equipment to get that full orchestrated sound.

"Red Rover" & "Try For The Sun" ARE the two best examples of this.

*--hold your horses; put down the flame-throwers and step away... I AM one of the more qualified people that the "guitar-nerd" label should be bestowed upon!!

Les · #3 03-13-2003, 04:20 PM

Probably not a bad guess, Dave. I'm just happy to hear the "something new" approach is being tried in some capacity for some portion of the show.

BlueGrass · #4 03-13-2003, 04:28 PM

Yeah, I like this new style a lot...

What other songs has he used this on?

"Go Insane" '97
"Love Minus Zero/No Limit"
"Bleed To Love Her"
"Down On Rodeo"

???

seteca · #5 03-15-2003, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlueGrass
Yeah, I like this new style a lot...

What other songs has he used this on?

"Go Insane" '97
....
"Bleed To Love Her"
"Down On Rodeo"

???

Actually none of those songs really use the same Travis method as on Big Love '97, Red Rover, Try For The Sun, and Say Goodbye. Miranda comes to mind as the only other one. The intro to The Chain '97 is another example, where the melody goes out of (finger) synch with the alternating bass line (on the video you get a really nice shot of his index and middle fingers moving out of synch with his thumb). I'm not sure about "Love Minus Zero/No Limit"...I can't remember how that goes. Any classical guitarist would be able to play the 3 songs you've named, no Travis picking required. Same goes for NGBA - although I still think it's the toughest piece to play well out of all the guitar work he's done over the years.

BlueGrass · #6 03-15-2003, 10:26 PM

Well what I meant was the sound of the guitars...they all sound very melodic and not as 'thin and percussive sounding'. The sound is more thick (Like in TFTS) than a normal guitar.

MikeD · #7 03-27-2003, 04:10 PM

I thought that the out of sync was due to poor editing in the post prod part...cause if you look at the end of Say That You Love Me, you see that he breaks the high G string of the banjo, and the next time you see it, it's whole again...The Dance was filmed on two different nights, don't forget. Also, the Boss DD-5 that he uses can cause some awesome delay effects.

seteca · #8 04-06-2003, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeD
Also, the Boss DD-5 that he uses can cause some awesome delay effects.

Yea you really hear that baby come to life on some of the less/non-produced recordings like the Irvine Meadows show, it's got a phrase preservation comparable with some Lexicon racks.

Check out the new Boss DD-20 GigaDelay.....it's NUTS!! 23 seconds of delay!

fleetfootmike · #9 04-07-2003, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seteca
Same goes for NGBA - although I still think it's the toughest piece to play well out of all the guitar work he's done over the years.

How about "Stephanie"

I actually don't find NGBA as hard as I thought I would - it took me a week of constant practice to get it 'in my fingers'. Big Love '97, though.... yeesh.

fleetfootmike · #10 04-07-2003, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeD
I thought that the out of sync was due to poor editing in the post prod part...cause if you look at the end of Say That You Love Me, you see that he breaks the high G string of the banjo, and the next time you see it, it's whole again...The Dance was filmed on two different nights, don't forget. Also, the Boss DD-5 that he uses can cause some awesome delay effects.

The fingerpicking style he uses basically keeps an alternating bass going with the thumb, and 'melody' with the fingers. It takes practise (as chiliD I'm sure can attest as well as me!) but after a while you get so you can keep the thumb going pretty much on autopilot, and fool around with the fingers. Listen to some live versions of the Chain (Mirage video, Sin City '77) for this...

MikeD · #11 04-07-2003, 08:11 AM

I have it pretty well under my fingers, but sometimes it's tough to do it and sing at the same time...so I stay clear of NGBA outside of playing it for the hell of it.

Mike, you have the chords for Stephanie? Mind helping a fellow player out?

MikeD · #12 04-07-2003, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fleetfootmike
Big Love '97, though.... yeesh.

It isn't that difficult if you try and distance your mind from the fact the your fingers are acting unaturally...and with a slight slap-back delay, if you miss a downbeat of the bass, the delay will make it sound like you didn't. But only if it's inside the chord...not the begining of one. I found this out at the talent show on campus a few months back...my thumb seized up on me for a moment, but the deay setting I had made it sound like I still had the bass line going.

fleetfootmike · #13 04-07-2003, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeD
I have it pretty well under my fingers, but sometimes it's tough to do it and sing at the same time...so I stay clear of NGBA outside of playing it for the hell of it.

Ahah! He cheats. He doesn't play the main riff under the vocals, live, just a little D A D A D thing.

Quote:

Mike, you have the chords for Stephanie? Mind helping a fellow player out?

Nope. It's on my 'sit down and transcribe' list when I have some spare time.

seteca · #14 04-07-2003, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fleetfootmike
How about "Stephanie"

Well "Stephanie" is two guitars (in different tunings) playing at the same time, so it's impossible for a single guitarist to play it identically. However, last year a Ledgie really wanted to learn to play it so I tabbed out a version which sounds VERY close (if I may say so!

) to the original.

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeD
Mike, you have the chords for Stephanie? Mind helping a fellow player out?

Hey Mike, do you just need the chords or do you wanna pick the song like LB/my tab? If you wanna take a look at my tab for Stephanie I can email it to you.

Quote:

Originally posted by fleetfootmike
I actually don't find NGBA as hard as I thought I would - it took me a week of constant practice to get it 'in my fingers'. Big Love '97, though.... yeesh.

My problems with NGBA are a) as MikeD said, singing and playing it at the same time is VERY difficult for me and b) not positioning but keeping the rhythm going during the "been down one time" etc part, and the "never going back again" part (and here the positioning is damn tricky anyway, at least for me!).

For some reason I never had a problem with Big Love '97....it took me about a year of playing it practically every day to go from nothing to getting it to 99%...(I'm not LB so 99% is where it will forever stay!! lol!). In some Travis picking books and websites they often instruct you to start with the bass line first, get comfortable with it and then throw in the rhythm/melody lines. I find that doesn't work very well when I'm learning a Travis-style song. I prefer doing it all together, but at a very slow pace at first. That way, I can hear the whole song so it very quickly comes together and I can then concentrate on improving the pace.

MikeD's suggestion of slap-back delay is very good, and I always use a delay of about 340ms with two repeats (one strong and one weak) when I'm doing Big Love live. Not only does it allow you to get away with screwing up a bass note here and there, but also gives you the luxury of having a secret metronome built into the song so you play in perfect time. Also it just gives the song so much more flavour and dimension. Compare Big Love '97 (from The Dance where he is using a very complex delay/FX system to get that multi-guitar sound) to the version he did at the Mark and Brian show which had no delays (or any other FX, as far as I can tell), and you'll really hear the difference.

The slap-back delay (much longer delay, can't think off-hand exactly what it is) is critical to Go Insane '97. The rhythm of the song relies heavily on it, especially with those opening harmonics.

sodascouts · #15 04-08-2003, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seteca
Well "Stephanie" is two guitars (in different tunings) playing at the same time, so it's impossible for a single guitarist to play it identically. However, last year a Ledgie really wanted to learn to play it so I tabbed out a version which sounds VERY close (if I may say so!) to the original.

Hey Mike, do you just need the chords or do you wanna pick the song like LB/my tab? If you wanna take a look at my tab for Stephanie I can email it to you.

Hello,

Could you e-mail me the Stephanie tabs, too, at sodascouts@aol.com? I know nothing about guitars, but I have a friend who plays the guitar and has been bugging me about finding these ever since he heard the BN CD I burned for him.

Thanks!