How do you measure success?

ERigby818 · #1 02-10-2003, 11:37 PM

I have this interview with Stevie from almost 2 years ago, when she was promoting TISL. She talks about hearing Planets Of The Universe for the first time on the radio and being absolutely thrilled. Then she adds, "its very, very hard to get a song played on the radio these days." It's true...it's definitely hard for a baby boomer rock artist to get new material on the radio, and I would think, especially a woman (correct me if I'm wrong but ageism in popular music is a little tougher on females). She didn't elaborate.

With all this speculating about how well Say You Will is going to do...how do we define success? I guess the question is, how do YOU want to see this effort succeed?

We all know record sales don't accurately define how good an album is anymore because sales are only as good as the promoters, and promoters are only as good as the support ($$$) they get from the record company. We know radio airplay doesn't measure how good an album is anymore because the radio industry is totally corrupt.

So I guess the logical answer to my own question is, I want Fleetood Mac to do as well as it wants to. I want each member to set a personal goal and make it, be it chart-topping sales (probably what Mick wants since he likes to make the big bucks), critical acclaim (maybe Lindsey would like to re-claim the title of "angriest dog in rock" once again?), or giving the fans something they'll treasure (we know this is high priority for Stevie).

But what kind of respect (and $$$ I guess), and from whom, should the Mac get for this record?

I know I want it to be a success for them, but I'm not sure how to define that. Please weigh in.

-Sonia

(The Stevie interview btw is from a Canadian TV program called Speakeasy, thanks Heather!)

Sorcerer386 · #2 02-11-2003, 12:22 AM

Well, I've said before in posts, usually these days "success" is defined not by volume of sales, critics, and so on, but by surpassing expectations. Many people considered TISL a success because it greatly surpassed what it was EXPECTED to do, plus had critical acclaim which Stevie rarely gets. So, because of FM's age, we're not expecting too much I don't think. I doubt many of us are even thinking it will hit #1 on Billboard or go 2x platinum, as well as many other people. However, if it does do that, then in the eyes of the many, it will have been successful. It's kind of like how they consider Tusk unsuccessful just because it fared no where near Rumours. The band didn't live up to expectations. I bet Alanis's new album was considered a failure, although platinum, due to the success she had with Jagged Little Pill. I hope this helps somewhat.

David · #3 02-11-2003, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ERigby818
With all this speculating about how well Say You Will is going to do...how do we define success? I guess the question is, how do YOU want to see this effort succeed?

If the new album gives me a pleasurable buzz, it's a success!

estranged4life · #4 02-11-2003, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David
If the new album gives me a pleasurable buzz, it's a success!

Amen to that David, Or in my case if it is worth a second listen...And a third...and so on...lol...Brian J.

David · #5 02-11-2003, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thewhitewingedd
I don't think it really matters what critics think...I actually think its very weird the whole critics thing anyway...I find it strange that someone would read an article about an album (SOMETHING THATS TO BE HEARD IN YOUR EARS ANYWAY) and decide that because one critic doesn't like it then you shouldn't either and therefore not give it a chance....

Critics aren't trying to make up your mind for you, Adam. Their purpose is to present their own informed, well-written opinions in the hopes that they can A) entertain you as you would be entertained by reading any good essay, & B) point out things about the work you may have missed in order to enrich your understanding & enjoyment of it.

Read good critics (like Dave Marsh & John Rockwell & Greil Marcus) on rock music & you'll have a great time! They're not thought police or mind-control agents. They're your brothers & sisters telling you what they think & why; let them engage you in dialog!

stefan · #6 02-11-2003, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thewhitewingedd
TIME for example I think sold like 34 000 copies but still I think its one of the greatest albums ever!...

By which group?

nae · #7 02-11-2003, 09:44 PM

I'm not too concerned about how the cd does commercially~ F.M. has had it's day~ I want music that touches me (however that may be) and I know that this cd will do that. The Mac always comes through for me~whether it be two songs or twenty~Peter Green or Stevie~I love this band!

N.

CarneVaca · #8 02-11-2003, 10:20 PM

I really don't care how well this CD does in sales, and I think it will sell about 2 million. The band will probably do better with the tour because people will go to it to hear Dreams and Go Your Own Way. I think the band already is blowing this release from a marketing perspective -- nothing like pissing off your fan core before your first release in five years.

Let's also keep in mind some other factors: The economy sucks, stock market confidence is below zero, and all this talk about war and terrorism is making people very nervous. Our government's color-coded fear meters may well end up keeping people holed up in their homes, and that has an effect on sales of just about everything. People on this board will run out and buy the CD the first day, but the wider audience will not.

Interestingly, I noticed more anger on Mick's board at the cost of the meet and greed than I did at the very concept of having to pay to stand next to these people. To me the idea itself is abhorrent, regardless of cost. But seeing as the biggest concern seems to be cost, I suspect a lot of people who may normally go to concerts may sit this tour out if the economy continues to limp along.

I hope I am wrong. (Now how many times do you read that from me?

celestenadia · #9 02-11-2003, 11:10 PM

"Meet & Greed"
TOO funny! ROTHFL!

celestenadia

ERigby818 · #10 02-12-2003, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I think it will sell about 2 million.

Just curious, how much is that compared to The Dance?
Unfortunately you're not wrong about the economy and war fear affecting everything, including record sales. I can't tell you how many people's cd collections I've seen The Dance in and been surprised, because you wouldn't expect some people to own a FM reunion cd....but times were good then, economically, and people didn't think twice about spending an extra 15 bucks on a cd that was very popular that year. 2003 will probably be a bad year for cd sales in general (2002 certainly was), and that's something that will probably weigh down sales of this album regardless of how popular it becomes.
-Sonia

CarneVaca · #11 02-12-2003, 01:39 PM

Sonia, don't forget that nostalgia sells. When VW reintroduced the Beetle, Americans were tripping over themselves to get on waiting lists for one. Some people paid as much as $25,000 for a $16,000 car. (Mick Fleetwood was among the early buyers.) So it didn't surprise me that so many people got The Dance, which I believe sold around 4 million.

This new album, however, is unlikely to sell as much. Incidentally, does anyone know how many Bruce has sold with The Rising? That will be very telling. Let's say he has sold 2 million, which I don't think he has, considering the theme of the album and who he is, that's not a lot. Of course, with the Grammy awards coming, he's likely to pick up some sales.

By the way, Sonia, I've enjoyed the link you sent me. I like most of the stuff and I am very much interested in seeing how the final product will sound.

Sorcerer386 · #12 02-12-2003, 10:07 PM

The Dance is 5x platinum, meaning 5+ million copies.
Bruce is 2x platinum.

Don't forget though, The Dance basically played off of the success of the early albums. I believe nine of the songs were from Fleetwood Mac and Rumours. Add to that the "hit" that Silver Springs was, and that generated more sales. So, if this album falls pretty short of The Dance's sales, I won't be surprised. I just really hope FM is able to generate ONE big hit off this album. Hopefully it'll get Grammy nods, and generate more sales early next year. I never realized until last year how much the Grammies really play a part in album sales. The main nominees/winners got a lot more sales after the show.

louielouie2000 · #13 02-13-2003, 01:26 AM

I think you're right on CarneVaca... I expect about 2 million in sales also.

I measure success for the Mac/Stevie nowadays in the amount of media attention their efforts get. There is very very little solid info on the upcoming album, and already it's creating a good little buzz... so I've got good feelings about it getting covered by the press. I also am going to weigh in critical acclaim. I'd rather have an album that's highly regarded for it's content than an ok album with high sales.

CarneVaca · #14 02-13-2003, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Sonia, don't forget that nostalgia sells. When VW reintroduced the Beetle, Americans were tripping over themselves to get on waiting lists for one. Some people paid as much as $25,000 for a $16,000 car. (Mick Fleetwood was among the early buyers.) So it didn't surprise me that so many people got The Dance, which I believe sold around 4 million.

Yes... I'm quoting myself now. Just to make a note: The Dance was released in August 97 and the Beetle came out in March 98. My comments above make it appear as if the Beetle came first. That was not my intent. I was using it as an example.

Carry on now.

David · #15 02-13-2003, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by louielouie2000
I think you're right on CarneVaca... I expect about 2 million in sales also.

Hi, louielouie2000. I remember you from the Legacy message board. I used to post there until my access was locked out because the moderator hates me for calling her out on Usenet for her trolling activities.

Nice to see you here!