Why does everyone say Lindsey Buckingham IS Fleetwood Mac?

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Ah, but one could easily disagree with that!
'Behind The Mask' charted in the Top 20, and quickly went gold.

Without Stevie, 'Time' didn't even chart, and sold only around 250,000 copies.

Not even Christine's presence, or a guest appearance from Lindsey, saved 'Time' from quickly dropping off the radar... meanwhile, the year prior, 'Street Angel' (Stevie's least successful solo album), peaked at #45, and eventually went gold (though it did take quite some time).

Like it or not, Stevie's presence in Fleetwood Mac is just as important as Lindsey's... perhaps moreso, where album and ticket sales are concerned.

But again, as I've stated, no one person is Fleetwood Mac.

Ah, but it sold terribly compared to other Mac records with Stevie. And while it debuted in the top twenty, it sank like a stone.

Let us also not forget that there was almost no promotion for Time, too. There was plenty for other Mac records and lots for Street Angel the previous year.

And saying it took some time for SA to be certified gold is an understatement; it took three years and holds the title for the worst selling Nicks album. Six years after being certified gold, it still hasn't reached platinum status.

So, what I conclude, is that Stevie and Lindsey are just as important in the Mac. Without Lindsey, the albums flop. Without Stevie, the albums flop. Without both of them, the albums flop.

[Hawkeye]

I'm suprised ChiliD hasn't chimed in yet and responded to some of these how can I say this nicely really "stupid" coments I don't mean to offend anyone but you SHOULD NOT use sales as a measure of greatness. Lindsey's solo albums sold like crap, SO WHAT. Does that mean Mirage is better then SYW because it SOLD more. I think not. And The debate over whether Stevie or Lindsey or both ARE Fleetwood Mac, are all wasting your time, bnecause Mick and John ARE Fleetwood Mac. They may not sell alot or they may not even be that good to some people, but they ARE Fleetwood Mac, and have been the heads of SEVERAL amazing lineups of this band.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
Everyone will jump down my throat if I say that he is the best producer for Stevie because he turns some of her rambling bullsh*t into GREAT songs, but I think it's true. Ever heard the pino demo for Gypsy? Lindsey worked wonders on that song. While the melody and tune was all Stevie, Lindsey turned it into something phenomenal. Just listen to the Bella Donna outtake of Gypsy and you'll understand.

D

Listen Snotty Applebuns, I have a version of Gypsy that (I think, don't quote me) has The Heartbreakers backing her. I, like you, always thought LB turned this song into the masterpiece that it truly is, until I heard this. The version is very, very similar to what appeared on Mirage, making me wonder if Petty or Iovine were the ones responsible for the molding of this song. Now that breathtaking guitar part at the end of the song, that's all LB. And I love the "Oh, Oh, Oh" version that appeared on Neil's site recently. But I digress. Lindsey is not Fleetwood Mac by himself. Fleetwood Mac is the sum of their parts.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Hawkeye
I don't mean to offend anyone but you SHOULD NOT use sales as a measure of greatness.

No one is using that measure. We're just conversing about how different line-ups affect the sales and success of the band.

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Listen Snotty Applebuns, I have a version of Gypsy that (I think, don't quote me) has The Heartbreakers backing her. I, like you, always thought LB turned this song into the masterpiece that it truly is, until I heard this. The version is very, very similar to what appeared on Mirage, making me wonder if Petty or Iovine were the ones responsible for the molding of this song. Now that breathtaking guitar part at the end of the song, that's all LB. And I love the "Oh, Oh, Oh" version that appeared on Neil's site recently. But I digress. Lindsey is not Fleetwood Mac by himself. Fleetwood Mac is the sum of their parts.

NO, you listen Loopy Bubble Humperdink!

*giggles hysterically*

Be a doll and send it my way. I've been meaning to email ya anyways, smartypants!

PS: The version on Neil's site is great! A firend sent it to me about two weeks ago and it knocked my socks off! Luv it!

[gldstwmn]

I've just been waiting for the opportunity to call you Snotty Applebuns. I'm sending it.

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I've just been waiting for the opportunity to call you Snotty Applebuns. I'm sending it.

Check your email!

[jwd]

Why, oh why does everyone seem to think that Lindsey Buckingham IS Fleetwood Mac?

I never thought that EVERYONE did. And for those who thought he IS Fleetwood Mac.....



Joe

[macfan 57]

I think no one person is Fleetwood Mac. It's whoever happens to be in the band at any given moment. As for sales figures, it's pretty obvious that the Rumours line up with all 5 members sells. Behind the Mask, Time & Say You Will all had very important members missing and all of these albums didn't sell well because of it.

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Listen Snotty Applebuns

Originally posted by dissention


NO, you listen Loopy Bubble Humperdink!

you guys are killing me!

[David]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Listen Snotty Applebuns, I have a version of Gypsy that (I think, don't quote me) has The Heartbreakers backing her. I, like you, always thought LB turned this song into the masterpiece that it truly is, until I heard this. The version is very, very similar to what appeared on Mirage, making me wonder if Petty or Iovine were the ones responsible for the molding of this song. Now that breathtaking guitar part at the end of the song, that's all LB.

I don't think it sounds very similar to the Fleetwood Mac "Mirage" recording, but I'm maybe a little nutso. On the Heartbreakers' recording of it (which may have actually come after the Mac tracked it in Herouville), you've got essentially a very standard series of Heartbreakers signature riffs & styles: Benmont's chunky B3 organ chords with plenty of on-again, off-again Leslie; Stan Lynch's galloping drums in brisk time; Mike Campbell's rhythm strumming of the chords; & the loping bass, which probably sounds the most like the Fleetwood Mac style. It has its own merits, like energy, immediacy. But it's essentially just a Heartbreakers jam, & the only similarity I can hear between it & the Mac recording is the chord progression.

The Mac's version, on the other hand, is a (some might say suffocatingly) stylized work built on a pentatonic riff & an intricately arranged pattern of choral backup vocals. It's just a whole different feel & approach. In fact, the accompaniment on the bridge "To the gypsy that I was" on the Heartbreakers version kicks in to this spare drums & bass thing with a little funk -- really totally different from the fake strings & pedal points in the backup vocal choir in the Mac's version.

Do you remember the crashing mess it was on the solo '83 tour? "Gypsy" lost her velvet.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by Hawkeye
I'm suprised ChiliD hasn't chimed in yet and responded to some of these how can I say this nicely really "stupid" coments

For this RARE occasion, I invoked the "Thumper rule". If I DID respond the way I would like, I'd most likely get all three strikes on one post alone.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by David
I don't think it sounds very similar to the Fleetwood Mac "Mirage" recording, but I'm maybe a little nutso. On the Heartbreakers' recording of it (which may have actually come after the Mac tracked it in Herouville), you've got essentially a very standard series of Heartbreakers signature riffs & styles: Benmont's chunky B3 organ chords with plenty of on-again, off-again Leslie; Stan Lynch's galloping drums in brisk time; Mike Campbell's rhythm strumming of the chords; & the loping bass, which probably sounds the most like the Fleetwood Mac style. It has its own merits, like energy, immediacy. But it's essentially just a Heartbreakers jam, & the only similarity I can hear between it & the Mac recording is the chord progression.

The Mac's version, on the other hand, is a (some might say suffocatingly) stylized work built on a pentatonic riff & an intricately arranged pattern of choral backup vocals. It's just a whole different feel & approach. In fact, the accompaniment on the bridge "To the gypsy that I was" on the Heartbreakers version kicks in to this spare drums & bass thing with a little funk -- really totally different from the fake strings & pedal points in the backup vocal choir in the Mac's version.

Do you remember the crashing mess it was on the solo '83 tour? "Gypsy" lost her velvet.

From you're description, I'd say we're listening to the same version. It is a more uptempo version but the chord progression is the same. As far as the minutae of the arrangement, I'm not a musician so I can't really respond to that. There's no date on it, so it well could have been recorded post Herouville. I suspect though, that Stevie & The Heartbreakers did the bulk of their studio work prior to that and the melody that we all know was already in place when she brought it to Lindsey, if that is the case. My opinion is he put the finishing touches on the masterpiece, where others think he actually painted it.

[strandinthewind]

quote:
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Originally posted by gldstwmn
Listen Snotty Applebuns
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quote:
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Originally posted by dissention


NO, you listen Loopy Bubble Humperdink!


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Why do I feel as if we are in a bar consuming large amount s of alcohol?

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Why do I feel as if we are in a bar consuming large amount s of alcohol?

Who says we aren't? Fetch me another vodka on the rocks and hold the orange juice this time.

I think the version that was brought up sounds very similar to the Mirage version. I think the melody and the beat are almost identical. Of course, compared to the album version, it is very stripped down, but I think the meat and potatoes of the song are on that demo.