Favorite Albums of 2005

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Well, putting aside that last question, because I really doubt any of us wants to take this thread there, this still doesn't seem to have much to do with what I was talking about. Again, I certainly don't have anything against songs written from an overtly Christian perspective. It's the idea of a "genre" of "Christian" music that I find to be severely limiting.

I still don't understand how it is limiting to have a ministry of music? Most Christian artist feel like they have been called to a ministry of music. And I do hope that you realize that Christian music is one of the LARGEST growing genre's of music...it is by no means "limiting" if more keep gaining interest.

Well, the lyrics aren't doing a whole lot for me, but written lyrics often don't. And a Sheryl Crow comparison isn't going to earn Ms. Groves any points with me, but as long as we're going to make this woman an example...

This doesn't look like a bad song, at least on paper. It also doesn't appear to be a religious song, at least any remotely overt way. So the question I find myself asking at this point is, if she writes "secular" songs like this, if she chooses to write about issues other than overt declarations of or meditations on her faith, then why does she label herself as a "Christian" artist? It's the existence of this "genre" that troubles me, and actually, I'm going to stop calling it a genre, because it's not one, it's a market. So why does she choose to restrict herself to this specific market? Why not attempt to expose other people outside the relatively small Christian culture that listens to "Christian" music to her art? Why do musicians like this find themselves to be so self-consciously Christian that they choose to label and pigeonhole themselves this way?

Again, there are simply dozens upon dozens of artists out there, and I think of more every minute, who are Christian and who write and/or perform religious songs, as well as writing and perofmring songs on other topics (as Ms. Groves seems to be doing here), but they don't label themselves as "Christian" and pigeonhole themselves into this very limiting, often bland and trite "genre"/market that separates itself almost entirely from the rest of the music industry and from most music fans. So why do other artists do this? What's the point?

Sara wrote that song after having a really big fight with her husband. She went into her room, sat at the piano, and just wrote! My point is that not all Christian artists’ songs mention the word God in them. It doesn't make them any less Christian. The reason they label themselves Christian artist is because THEY ARE CHRISTIAN and the majority of the music they write is about God's active role in their life, and also because of the record company they are with. For instance Sara is with Sponge Records which is a Christian label but she gets marketing support from Sony/Epic (so obviously Christian music is growing).

About the song and Sheryl Crow. Ok now let's turn the tables around...let’s say Sheryl Crow (or any other secular pop artist) recorded THIS song by Sara...tell me that their fans would turn on them saying they have gone "Christian"!!!



Compelled
Sara Groves

What a relief it is to know
I’m a slave to Christ
Of all the masters I have known
I’m compelled to live this life
Free for you

I’m on the other side of something
I’m on the other side of something

I have a new hope that blows away
The small hopes I knew before
And at the end of the day I am yours
And I am compelled

You’ve written on my very heart
Where no man can legislate
The law of your love has taken hold
With your holiness and grace
There’s no mistake

I’m on the other side of something
I’m coming out the other side, the other side

I have a new hope that blows away
The small hopes I knew before
And at the end of the day I am yours
And I am compelled

I am drawn and driven, I am compelled
You have written it, I am compelled
You live in me
And I can’t help myself

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

I still don't understand how it is limiting to have a ministry of music? Most Christian artist feel like they have been called to a ministry of music. And I do hope that you realize that Christian music is one of the LARGEST growing genre's of music...it is by no means "limiting" if more keep gaining interest.

I'm not sure if you're purposely miscomprehending what I'm writing or not, but this point isn't really a major issue.

Sara wrote that song after having a really big fight with her husband. She went into her room, sat at the piano, and just wrote! My point is that not all Christian artists’ songs mention the word God in them. It doesn't make them any less Christian.

I don't think anybody claimed that writing non-God praisin' songs makes a Christian artists less Christian.

The reason they label themselves Christian artist is because THEY ARE CHRISTIAN and the majority of the music they write is about God's active role in their life,

Once again, Steve and I and others have mentioned that there are dozens upon dozens of musicians out there who are Christian and who write music with religious themes, yet they don't pigeonhole themselves into the market of "Christian" music. The question I asked is why an artist would choose to do this.

About the song and Sheryl Crow. Ok now let's turn the tables around...let’s say Sheryl Crow (or any other secular pop artist) recorded THIS song by Sara...tell me that their fans would turn on them saying they have gone "Christian"!!!

Why do you keep bringing up Sheryl Crow? I have to say, I don't own any of her albums, and I'm not intimately familiar with her fan base or how they might react if she wrote and released a religious song. Anyway, are you implying that most fans of "secular" music would refuse to listen to a song by their favorite "secular" artist if it had religious themes? I don't think that's remotely true. If that's what you're saying, what is it that makes you think that?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

[QUOTE=Jyqm]

Once again, Steve and I and others have mentioned that there are dozens upon dozens of musicians out there who are Christian and who write music with religious themes, yet they don't pigeonhole themselves into the market of "Christian" music. The question I asked is why an artist would choose to do this.

You obviously weren't reading what I wrote. They label themselves Christian artist because of...

1. THEY ARE
2. They feel that have been called to a ministry of music
3. It depends on what label you are with.

And also the facts aren't going along with your contingency that Christian music is "limiting", not when sales and interest in Contemporary Christian music is continuing to grow...

Why do you keep bringing up Sheryl Crow? I have to say, I don't own any of her albums, and I'm not intimately familiar with her fan base or how they might react if she wrote and released a religious song. Anyway, are you implying that most fans of "secular" music would refuse to listen to a song by their favorite "secular" artist if it had religious themes? I don't think that's remotely true. If that's what you're saying, what is it that makes you think that?

Fine, forget Sheryl (she was just the singer songwriter that kept jumping into my head)...pick ANY secular pop artist, and if they were to come out with a song specifically written about their love for Christ (not just GOD but JESUS CHRIST), you don't think they would receive some backlash?

[estranged4life]

to Christian music let 'em...Doesnt float my boat at all (Yes, I own some Christian rock albums, The lyrics dont bother me, But the lameness of the musical instrumentation does...Too bad they cant have music like known Christians and some of my faves such as Steve Vai and King's X) so I choose to listen to other type of music.

[DavidMn]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

to Christian music let 'em...Doesnt float my boat at all (Yes, I own some Christian rock albums, The lyrics dont bother me, But the lameness of the musical instrumentation does...Too bad they cant have music like known Christians and some of my faves such as Steve Vai and King's X) so I choose to listen to other type of music.

Micheal W Smith absolutely makes me YAWN

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

to Christian music let 'em...Doesnt float my boat at all (Yes, I own some Christian rock albums, The lyrics dont bother me, But the lameness of the musical instrumentation does...Too bad they cant have music like known Christians and sonme of my faves such as Steve Vai and King's X) so I choose to listen to other type of music.

I know what you mean. That is a big problem I have with most Christian "Rock" groups...there music is a little "lame"...however I am a songwriter before I am a musician, so I always hear the words in a song first before I pay attention to the music. I do like some of the more rock/pop groups in Christian music like Switchfoot...

I usually care more for the more independent Christian artists...like Ms. Groves.

[CreepingDeath]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

to Christian music let 'em...Doesnt float my boat at all (Yes, I own some Christian rock albums, The lyrics dont bother me, But the lameness of the musical instrumentation does...Too bad they cant have music like known Christians and some of my faves such as Steve Vai and King's X) so I choose to listen to other type of music.

Admit it, Brian. You own Stryper's entire catalog.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by DavidMn

Micheal W Smith absolutely makes me YAWN

I suppose it is just a matter of taste. I for one can say I have been to an amazing Michael W. Smith concert with MercyMe and Amy Grant...and it was AMAZING! I can promise you there was NO yawning going on there! haha.

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

I suppose it is just a matter of taste. I for one can say I have been to an amazing Michael W. Smith concert with MercyMe and Amy Grant...and it was AMAZING! I can promise you there was NO yawning going on there! haha.

I used to love Point of Grace and Lisa Bevill

[DavidMn]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

I suppose it is just a matter of taste. I for one can say I have been to an amazing Michael W. Smith concert with MercyMe and Amy Grant...and it was AMAZING! I can promise you there was NO yawning going on there! haha.

NO problem, To each their own.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

I used to love Point of Grace and Lisa Bevill

I have never heard of Lisa Bevill, but do enjoy some of Point of Grace's music...they aren't my favorite...but I do like them.

[skcin]

Originally Posted by CreepingDeath

Admit it, Brian. You own Stryper's entire catalog.

I can hear Brian singing now...

"Free! Free to do what you want to! Choose your own destiny! Free to do what you waaaant to!"

Better than Honestly, anyway.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by CreepingDeath

Admit it, Brian. You own Stryper's entire catalog.

only own one of the album's "Soldiers Under Command", Which is very heavy & melodic & well-produced...

Otherwise I find the rest of Stryper's catalog of songs to be somewhat boring musically & Michael Sweet's vocals are too cheesy after prolonged listens (His vocals are better on their newest release "Reborn", But the band sounds like they want to be the band Disturbed for this album...Big yawn!)

[Jyqm]

[QUOTE=Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

You obviously weren't reading what I wrote. They label themselves Christian artist because of...

1. THEY ARE
2. They feel that have been called to a ministry of music
3. It depends on what label you are with.

The label answer is getting a little closer that to what I'm asking about, but then the question becomes, why sign up with a "Christian" label? Why do these artists choose to restrict themselves to a "Christian" music audience (because, once you label yourself as a "Christian" musician, that's largely what you're doing) rather than just put their music out there for the whole of the population to discover?

And also the facts aren't going along with your contingency that Christian music is "limiting", not when sales and interest in Contemporary Christian music is continuing to grow...

I was saying that the idea of "Christian" music seems to be self-limiting in the range of ideas that can be written about;* I never said anything about popularity or record sales.

*And you countered by demonstrating that not all "Christian" artists write every song about Christianity. At which point the question turned to, why do they then label themselves as "Christian?"

Fine, forget Sheryl (she was just the singer songwriter that kept jumping into my head)...pick ANY secular pop artist, and if they were to come out with a song specifically written about their love for Christ (not just GOD but JESUS CHRIST), you don't think they would receive some backlash?

No! Why on earth do you think this? Steve and I have both posted the names of a number of musicians who do not label themselves as "Christian artists" but who are Christian and have written and performed more than their share of music with religious themes with little to no backlash from anybody.

To cite the two examples I already mentioned:

1) Kanye West is one of the biggest "secular" music stars in the world right now, and he had a HUGE hit single last year with the song "Jesus Walks," the chorus of which is, "(Jesus Walk)/God show me the way 'cause the Devil's tryin' to break me down/(Jesus Walk with me)/The only thing that I pray is that my feet don't fail me now/(Jesus Walk)/And I don't think there is nothing I can do now to right my wrongs/(Jesus Walk)/I want to talk to God but I'm afraid 'cause we ain't spoke in so long." Incidentally, the song also grapples with this same idea of yours, that the music industry won't embrace a song about Jesus. But the song's massive success proves that idea dead wrong.

2) Sufjan Stevens is an artist who is very open about his Christianity, and a number of songs on his album Illinois are religious in nature. Critics have almost universally praised the album as one of the year's best, and it's become a commercial success by most independent music standards.

And those are just two examples from the present moment. Dig into the past a little, and you'll find dozens of "secular" artists in nearly every genre releasing widely-acclaimed and embraced religious music, from Willie Nelson's 1976 gospel album The Troublemaker to John Coltrane's 1964 masterpiece A Love Supreme.

You seem to have this dichotomous idea of the music world where there are self-labelled "Christian" artists who write songs about their religion, and then there are "secular" artists who write only about secular matters. But this simply isn't the case. There are many "secular" artists on "secular" labels who write music that deals with generally religious and/or specifically Christian themes and issues. And since this is the case, and everybody seems to be co-existing rather nicely, my question is why some artists feel the need to segregate themselves as "Christian" artists, shutting themselves off from the broader music industry.

[skcin]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Time to break out the Stryper picture again!
I think they achieved those hairstyles through the power of prayer myself.

Sharon. I love you.