'Live In Boston' debuts at....

[Johnny Stew]

#84 on this week's Billboard Top 200 Albums chart.

I have to say I was expecting it to do better than that, given that it was a CD/DVD package... but it's second-week sales will probably be better, as more and more people catch the concert on PBS.

[MacMan]

I was actually surprised that it even debuted on the billboard 200!.... It's a dvd mainly, and they have a dvd sales section or chart just for that or for Music videos. But I guess because they included just enough tracks on the cd to call it an album (I'm sure running time had something to do with it), that it qualified to enter the billboard 200.

I thought the sales were abit weak too (roughly 16,000)... And I don't suspect second week sales to be much different. Those pbs shows were on so late at night in some markets, that I doubt they drew a large audience.

We need to see this in the early evening... not at 11:30pm!

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by MacMan

I thought the sales were abit weak too (roughly 16,000)... And I don't suspect second week sales to be much different. Those pbs shows were on so late at night in some markets, that I doubt they drew a large audience.

I still have yet to understand how Billboard tabulates these things. For example, how do they treat all of the copies that were given away to new PBS members during their pledge drive? Or is it strictly Soundscan at retail outlets? And what about all of the copies that were sold online? Via the fanclub? And what about the version of Live in Boston that came packaged in the regular rectangular DVD package?

Billboard also has a rather f**ked up way of dealing with multi-disc packages. For example, a double CD set like Outkast's "Speakerboxxx/Love Below" scans as two CDs for each album sold, which can probably explain why it has remained near the top of the Billboard chart for so long. And that also helps to explain why Stevie's "Enchanted" 3-CD box set was certified gold even though it sold less than 200,000 copies- each box set counted as 3 units. Now what about these new DVD/CD packages? Do each of the video DVD discs constitute a "unit," or are audio CDs only eligible to be counted as a "unit?" If CDs are only counted, then each copy of "Live in Boston" would only count as one unit. And if that is truly the case, and all of the PBS/online purchases are not counted, debuting at 84 is a pretty respectable showing, especially considering that it's technically a retail price of $32 for a single CD!

[MacMan]

And what about the version of Live in Boston that came packaged in the regular rectangular DVD package?

I don't think the dvd actually came packaged in the rectangle box. Just the digipack that's a bit larger then a cd.

But I know what you mean... It's a strange situation, that's why I was surprised that it debuted on the album chart in the first place... It's mainly a dvd - not a cd!!

I remember last year when 50cent brought out an album - it was basically a dvd, but because there was a cd packaged with it - it was allowed to chart on the 200.

Not sure if they are counting it as a 3 disc set (when adding up units sold) or counting it as a single (based on the one actual audio cd inside). Would be interesting to know that.

As for Outkast.. Even though I agree each unit sold was counted as 2 because it was a double cd set - I think the counting of it as 2 only really makes a difference when you are certifying it either gold or platinum. The units sold per week is still based on a single unit - if I understand it correctly. For instance - if they sold 50,000 units in one week. It would be counted as 50,000 units on the chart - but would be counted as 100,000 units when adding up the number of discs sold towards gold and platinum.

I still think 16,000 units is pretty weak given the Macs profile.. But - this is something that I think will continually sell through the years.

We need like a prime time - nbc/cbs/abc type showing of the show... whether its the full show or cut down.

[Janet]

Hey the fact it charted at all is impressive! The packaging is confusing, is it a cd or a dvd? At least some are buying!

I did my part today and bought my copy. I thought it funny the clear pic of Stevie's little leg footed by her Reboks ( and a pulled up sock!) Very cute hehe.

[Kelly]

So, just to clarify..are the ones we purchased through the fan club counted in this 16,000 total for last week?? If not, how and when are the online purchases added in to the total? (like Amazon) This stuff has always confused the heck out of me. If SYW would have been a double cd, would that have made a difference in its certification now? Would it be platinum? gah..confusing

[hayley]

Online purchases are still counted towards Soundscan totals, as long as the online vendor as a Soundscan reporter, which the vast majority of them are- and the PBS/fan club scans were also more than likely recorded.

Yes, if SYW was a double CD, it would be certified platinum.

[MacMan]

I don't think they are counted in this 16,000. But what ever is sold other then over the counter sales in stores will be factored in when certifying the release gold or platinum.

Here's the RIAA site http://www.riaa.com/gp/certification/criteria.asp

Yes, if SYW was a double CD, it would be certified platinum.

If SYW were a double as it stands, it would have to exceed 100 minutes in running time to be counted as two towards certification. What is the running time of SYW as it stands now?

As for other avenues of purchasing and the counting towards gold and platinum - this is from the RIAA.

We are often asked why we don’t just use sales figures from SoundScan. SoundScan measures over-the-counter sales at music retail locations, while the RIAA®'s certification levels are based on unit shipments (minus returns) from manufacturers to a wide range of accounts, including non-retail record clubs, mail order houses, specialty stores, units shipped for Internet fulfillment or direct marketing sales, such as TV-advertised albums. The other difference is that SoundScan's archive is only a few years old, while the RIAA® has tracked artists' sales levels for more than 40 years.

Certification Criteria

Along with minimum sales figures, a number of other criteria accompany each title for certification. The list and table below describe what titles and types of sales can be considered for the awards.

Each company that requests RIAA® certification must be a firm or corporation that has headquarters in the United States and is engaged in the legitimate production and sale of sound recordings.

Recordings become eligible for certification 30 days after initial street date. Audio and music video titles may be requested for award certification starting 30 days after product is commercially available to consumers.

Only domestic sales and sales to U.S. military post exchanges may be included. The requesting company must separate PX sales from other accounts on sales sheets. Export sales outside the United States are not included in certification.

Club sales and club free goods may be included towards certification. Product shipped to retail, mail order, record clubs, TV marketing and other ancillary markets are combined toward certified sales. All shipments to these accounts must be verified by the label.

Promotional radio and press copies, cut-outs, inventory sell-offs and surplus sales are not included toward certification.

Catalog product, specifically pre-1972 album releases, are eligible for certification by meeting either the unit shipment or manufacturer's dollar requirement for each award level.

Multi-Disc Set

Quantity:
500,000 units. Package must include two or more Cds (or its tape and album equivalent.)

Requirements:
*Each unit within set counts as one unit toward certification.
*Minimum running time 100 minutes.

Quantity:
One million units. Package must include two or more CDs ( or its tape and album equivalent.)
Requirements:
*Each unit within set counts as one unit toward certification.
*Minimum running time 100 minutes.

[hayley]

Originally Posted by MacMan

I don't think they are counted in this 16,000. But what ever is sold other then over the counter sales in stores will be factored in when certifying the release gold or platinum.

I can nearly guarantee you that they are. Labels have no impetus to give albums to PBS for sale, let alone with extra content, if they won't be reported. They always are. (My record company sees market share of sometimes up to 33% of sales on albums sold on PBS pledge drives for some projects) If the albums were bought through the fan club, they'd be shipped through Fanfire or whatever, which most certainly is a SS reporter.

If SYW were a double as it stands, it would have to exceed 100 minutes in running time to be counted as two towards certification. What is the running time of SYW as it stands now?

It's 79 minutes, but they recorded other songs and cut them for the sake of the album's length. If they'd made the decision to release a double album, then they most certainly would've had 100 minutes worth of music on there.

As for other avenues of purchasing and the counting towards gold and platinum - this is from the RIAA.

You're not confusing shipments with scans, are you? Consumer purchases have nothing whatsoever to do with RIAA certification, as you can see from the RIAA data you posted.

People get Soundscan sales and RIAA certification confused constantly. They have nothing to do with each other. Certification is quite useless, really, other than having the cachet of having a 'platinum' album. Anyone can have a gold or platinum record if their record company is willing to give retailers ridiculous deals and great return terms. Mariah Carey's last record was certified gold based on its release, if I remember correctly, and something like 65% of those records were returned as soon as possible.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by hayley

It's 79 minutes, but they recorded other songs and cut them for the sake of the album's length. If they'd made the decision to release a double album, then they most certainly would've had 100 minutes worth of music on there.

Ah, but what about the SYW Limited Edition with the bonus tracks? If you include those, you easily exceed 100 minutes for a multidisc set. So if these are counted as two units, then the actual number of SYW copies sold is far less than the approximately 800,000 that have been estimated to date.

Originally Posted by hayley

Mariah Carey's last record was certified gold based on its release, if I remember correctly, and something like 65% of those records were returned as soon as possible.

Actually I believe "Glitter" was ultimately certified as platinum. To be fair, I generally can't stand Mariah's music. But that being said, "Glitter" was actually a good album, but a HORRENDOUS movie.

[hayley]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Ah, but what about the SYW Limited Edition with the bonus tracks? If you include those, you easily exceed 100 minutes for a multidisc set. So if these are counted as two units, then the actual number of SYW copies sold is far less than the approximately 800,000 that have been estimated to date.

Untrue. If the limited edition is counted as two discs, it still makes no difference with SCANS. It has SCANNED over 800,000 units, regardless of multi-unit or single unit. The only time that the extra disc makes a difference is in the RIAA's count of SHIPMENTS on which certification is based.

Soundscan counts multi-disc units as one unit. The RIAA counts them by the number of discs (when it meets their criteria) in SHIPMENTS for their certification. The two have nothing whatsoever to do with one another.

Actually I believe "Glitter" was ultimately certified as platinum. To be fair, I generally can't stand Mariah's music. But that being said, "Glitter" was actually a good album, but a HORRENDOUS movie.

I was talking about charmbracelet. And anyways, I meant that upon its RELEASE it was certified gold, ie- they initially shipped 500,000.