Go off, Bill!

[Rob67]

Try not to speak when you don't know what you're talking about.

If everyone on this board followed that advice it would be very quite around here, me thinks!

All of those radio shows are carried by Clear Channel. If you don't know all about Clear Channel, I'm not going to waste my time by explaining anything to you. Limbaugh stills ranks 21st almost ever year and when he was up against Randi Rhodes, she whipped his ass and took the number one slot. None of those conservative shows "gained popularity and ratings from the ground up," they were forced onto the market by Clear Channel. Hannity's show regularly bombs and he gets close to no listeners in his major market, New York.

Air America does not get poor ratings, either. Radio ratings come out every quarter, four times a year and their ratings won't be published until the end of June. The only way for them to measure ratings is by measuring their online streams. Ironically, their online streams were higher than Limbaugh's, Hannity's, and Savage's combined. The last time they checked, they had over 2 million simultaneous streams. That's not good, that's amazing.

Well…sure…because they are on in only 6 markets and they have been parading the talent on all the network talk shows. So, the only way I can hear them in Pittsburgh or anywhere else outside those 6 markets would be streaming internet. There is the reasoning for your numbers. I can hear Hannity or Limbaugh anywhere on the radio if I chose to so of course the internet audience will be lower.

And, where are you getting your ratings numbers??? Every thing I read puts Limbaugh at #1 in most listened to talk radio and Hannity is close behind. Here’s a list from the biggest industry trade magazine:

According to Talkers Magazine (www.talkers.com) in 2003, here are the most listened-to syndicated shows:

1. Rush Limbaugh - 14.50+
2. Sean Hannity - 10.00+
3. Dr. Laura Schlessinger - 8.00+
3. Howard Stern - 8.00+
4. Michael Savage - 6.00+
5. Art Bell - 4.25+
5. Jim Bohannon - 4.25+
5. Dr. Joy Browne - 4.25+
5. Don Imus - 4.25+
6. Neal Boortz - 2.50+
6. Ken and Daria Dolan - 2.50+
6. Clark howard - 2.50+
7. Michael Gallagher - 2.25+
7. G. Gordon Liddy - 2.25+
7. Bruce williams - 2.25+
8. Kim Komando - 1.75+
8. Tom Leykis - 1.75+
8. Jim Rome - 1.75+
8. Doug Stephan - 1.75+
9. Glenn Beck - 1.50+
9. Michael Medved - 1.50+
9. Dave Ramsey - 1.25+
10. Bob Brinker - 1.25+
10. Dr. Dean Edell - 1.25+
10. Phil Hendrie - 1.00+

Originally Posted by dissention

While we're talking about Savage, I'd like to hear you try to defend that rat bastard like you do every other conservative. That f*cker is plain evil.

Can’t…I don’t listen to him. I couldn’t tell you where he stands on anything. But it’s nice to know that he is a “rat bastard” and that the “f*cker is plain evil.” Insightful…thanks.

BTW, what’s with the elitist attitude and all the hatred??? Were you not hugged enough as a child???

“Yes!! Feed your hatred!! That is the path to the Dark Side!!!”

Rob

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by dissention

Well, they do have the token liberal (Colmes) to balance the vile conservative (Hannity).

But you have to question how balanced that is.

Hannity is a viper and Colmes is just stupid.

Also, Rob, if you don' think Hannity is vicious, read his latest book. It's shockingly bad and erroneous, but he presents all of it as facts. or, you could read Ann Coulter, who believes that McCarthy is one of the greatest men to ever grace the earth.

More name-calling and hatred...jees!

Look...I am not defending every right wing kook. Ann is a tad extreme, Limbaugh is definitly way over there at times. But, listening to Hannity, when I get the chance, I rarely see hatred. In fact, he had Kerry's campaign manager on the other day and they had a relatively calm discussion. Of course they disagreed but he got equal time to say his piece. It mainly comes from liberals...just look at all the posts on this board. In fact...go back through every post I have ever had and every post Diss has had and count the number of times the word "stupid" is used for a member of the opposite party or someone with an opposing view, for that matter.

Read virtually ALL of Tower's posts...then tell me who is more vicious...

Rob

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Rob67

Well…sure…because they are on in only 6 markets and they have been parading the talent on all the network talk shows. So, the only way I can hear them in Pittsburgh or anywhere else outside those 6 markets would be streaming internet. There is the reasoning for your numbers. I can hear Hannity or Limbaugh anywhere on the radio if I chose to so of course the internet audience will be lower.

You seem to be forgetting that this network isn't even three weeks old, Rob.

Originally Posted by Rob67

And, where are you getting your ratings numbers??? Every thing I read puts Limbaugh at #1 in most listened to talk radio and Hannity is close behind. Here’s a list from the biggest industry trade magazine:

I was speaking about Limbaugh's home market in Florida. Check out those numbers, they're awful. The only reason that these people get such numbers is because Clear Channel monopolizes the airwaves. Do a google search on "clear channel stations" and the articles that come up about their business practices are shocking.

Originally Posted by Rob67

Can’t…I don’t listen to him. I couldn’t tell you where he stands on anything. But it’s nice to know that he is a “rat bastard” and that the “f*cker is plain evil.” Insightful…thanks.

MSNBC gave him his own show on their channel and then fired him after a particularly nasty outburst where he told a caller that all gay people were evil and that he wished they would all just gets AIDs and die.

Originally Posted by Rob67

BTW, what’s with the elitist attitude and all the hatred??? Were you not hugged enough as a child???

I got hugged...by Repugs. Like I said, I make no bones about my hate of Republicans. It's common knowledge.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Rob67

More name-calling and hatred...jees!

Look...I am not defending every right wing kook. Ann is a tad extreme, Limbaugh is definitly way over there at times. But, listening to Hannity, when I get the chance, I rarely see hatred. In fact, he had Kerry's campaign manager on the other day and they had a relatively calm discussion. Of course they disagreed but he got equal time to say his piece. It mainly comes from liberals...just look at all the posts on this board. In fact...go back through every post I have ever had and every post Diss has had and count the number of times the word "stupid" is used for a member of the opposite party or someone with an opposing view, for that matter.

Read virtually ALL of Tower's posts...then tell me who is more vicious...

Rob

I don't listen to his radio show, I've only seen him on his ****ty show and he's quite the asshole. It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative, he just comes across as rude and treats his guests quite badly; his ego is overpowering.

I am vicious, Rob. Very vicious. I'm from Massachusetts, I'm liberal, and I live in a country that is run by Shrub and Cheney. But I'll tell you one thing: if the shoe was on the other foot, you'd be just as vicious. Your disdain for liberals is as apparent as my hate for Republicans.

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by dissention

I don't listen to his radio show, I've only seen him on his ****ty show and he's quite the asshole. It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative, he just comes across as rude and treats his guests quite badly; his ego is overpowering.

I dunno...after some of the things he gets criticized for by his own guests...He dishes it out just as liberals do...

Originally Posted by dissention

I am vicious, Rob. Very vicious. I'm from Massachusetts, I'm liberal, and I live in a country that is run by Shrub and Cheney. But I'll tell you one thing: if the shoe was on the other foot, you'd be just as vicious. Your disdain for liberals is as apparent as my hate for Republicans.

That's fine...you live in the greatest country in the world that allows you to be vicious if you want to. And it's okay. It's a very common trait with most extremists, left and right, to be vicious and hateful. That's why most of the people I know and I look at the extremes of both sides with humorous curiosity. I don't have "disdain" for liberals...I think their priorities are a little unbalanced...I feel the same way about the far religious right. So what?
You can't HONESTLY say that I have the same hate as you do...there are no instances in my posts where you can back that up. I have always said I try to think independently...if more of my views fall on the conservative side...so be it.

I just hope you aren't that vicious and hateful in other aspects of life! It clouds rational judgement and would make for an unfun existance!

Rob

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by dissention

You seem to be forgetting that this network isn't even three weeks old, Rob.

Riiight....I am only commenting on the info you presented...and?

Originally Posted by dissention

I was speaking about Limbaugh's home market in Florida. Check out those numbers, they're awful. The only reason that these people get such numbers is because Clear Channel monopolizes the airwaves. Do a google search on "clear channel stations" and the articles that come up about their business practices are shocking.

OOOHHH...okay, I see now...we're only talking about a particular market now. Who cares about his "home" market?? He's national!! I am sure there are other markets where he isn't #1, or whatever. San Fransisco popped into my head for some reason...hmmm, go figure. I hope the Liberal talk shows go well. I hope they don't fall into the trap of blaming everything wrong in their lives on Bush. That turns most people off. If just blaming Bush for everything is your only argument then you don't have one. Bush will come and go like every other president and the next one will be blamed the same way Bush, Reagan, even Clinton by the far right were.

Originally Posted by dissention

MSNBC gave him his own show on their channel and then fired him after a particularly nasty outburst where he told a caller that all gay people were evil and that he wished they would all just gets AIDs and die.

I never heard that...but it's wrong and if he said what you claim, in that context, then he deserved to get fired. Like I said, I don't listen to him. Hate, either from the left or right, clouds rational judgement.

Originally Posted by dissention

I got hugged...by Repugs. Like I said, I make no bones about my hate of Republicans. It's common knowledge.

Well, if I ever met you I would offer up a hug and buy you a beer. I would even humour your viciousness!!

Rob

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

It has always been my feeling and thought, elitist though it maybe, that the common man does not want to think for himself. History shows they want it done for them. The "liberal media" is far more open with their thought process than people like Rush L., etc. The "liberal media" dares to ask why and dares to question authority.

AND...the liberal media seems to always put the blame on us and refuses to accept the fact that the blame could come from either themselves or others in the world. I have to disagree with your view. I don't consider Rush and Hannity the "media." I consider them entertainers. They do pander to a particular philosophy. I admit that I am not the most articulate person when it comes to discussing numbers and dates, etc. But I have a viewpoint that is sometimes expressed better by people with the gift of gab. I think that's the draw for Limbaugh and Hannity, even Franken & Colmes, if you will.

I am all for questioning authority...that's what is so great about this country. We can question it. But, I think there is a respectful and responsible way to go about it. To be honest, the hate comes from the extremes of both sides. AND, sometimes someone on the far left accuses someone who simply disagrees with them as hateful. It reminds me of this group discussion I had back in college. I was friends with my dorm RA, Dia, who was black. He sponsored floor talks about race religion, tolerance, etc. I did not initially participate because I knew I would speak my mind and thought that if I gave my point of view then I would unjustly be labled a "racist" because I am against AA. He convinced me to share, and I did attend a meeting. And you know what?? I presented my view honestly. I presented my case and was immediately attacked as being a racist for just saying I disagreed with AA becasue it didn't address the problem. I just turned to Dia and was like "See what I mean??" I wasn't racist...I just disagreed about the effectiveness behind a policy. And I presented my case in a respectful light. Thing about Dia, he knew where I was coming from and stuck up for me in this instance. He was a good guy. I think the same thing happens with Conservatives and Liberals immediately attacking each other for having different points of view.

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Conversely, the conservative media (which exists FAR more than the liberal media) clearly wants to force Christianity and all of the ruling authority that comes with it down the throats of everyone - and make a pretty penny while doing it even though they know it is not fair, America was NOT built on that premise, and the it is a classic do as I say not as I do schpeel. To me that is abhorrent. To others, it is God's way. The argument will never be solved, esp. as long as people can make a buck preaching the hate, like Fox News and MSNBC overtly and subtly do.

I also disagree with the assertion that conservative media FAR exceeds Liberal media. That would have to be a difference of perception. And, I am completely against pressing religion on anyone. I think the PC police have gotten carried away over the word "god". I have watched a lot of FOx News and CNN...I can't remember every seeing something that made me go..."You know what? That is hate!!"

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I mean, which of the true conservative values has W adhered to. Certainly he is not fiscally conservative - he is borrowing money left and right. Certainly he is not for less instrusive govt. - can you say a Const. Amend. taking away a state's right to allow gay marriage, tghe Patriot Act, etc. Finally, the Fed. Govt. is the largest it has ever been mostly due to W. None of these things in any way fit the conservative framework.

Agreed on many of those points. If you can show me a fiscally conservative, strong foriegn policy Democrat, I'll gladly vote for him/her!!!

Rob

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by Rob67

More name-calling and hatred...jees!

Look...I am not defending every right wing kook. Ann is a tad extreme, Limbaugh is definitly way over there at times. But, listening to Hannity, when I get the chance, I rarely see hatred. In fact, he had Kerry's campaign manager on the other day and they had a relatively calm discussion. Of course they disagreed but he got equal time to say his piece. It mainly comes from liberals...just look at all the posts on this board. In fact...go back through every post I have ever had and every post Diss has had and count the number of times the word "stupid" is used for a member of the opposite party or someone with an opposing view, for that matter.

Read virtually ALL of Tower's posts...then tell me who is more vicious...

Odd, I thought I was really, really, being careful and holding my tongue. Imagine what you'd say if I posted what I REALLY think? Unfortunately, I can't because it would violate the spirit and rules of this board.

Anyways..... I won't speak for anyone but myself. My disgust with conservatives and republicans is absolutely justified. I see no reason on earth why I should hold back from expressing my outrage.

I'm just guessing that you, oh cool Rob, have never been a target for discrimination from the government based on who you are- if you have been, I'm sorry. However, this current administration (not to mention Bush Sr and that awful, awful Reagan) has been so deceptive and so insidious with regard to courting the wealthy, discrimination against homosexuals, destroying the environment, gutting education and the whole Iraq thing that I just cannot believe that any good person would support them in any fashion.

I know that you don't get it and you probably never will. I'm sure there are some decent conservatives out there, but I have yet to meet one. And I come from a VERY conservative family, so I know the score. It's all passive-aggressive. "Compassionate conservative" is an oxymoron. Just because one has a civil demeanor does not guarantee that they are a civil person and vice versa. Republicans LOVE to demonize their opposition by using sleazy tactics- all in an effort to distort and/or deflect away from the real issues.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not a liberal- I'm a libertarian.

[strandinthewind]

Rob, how can you say that. Fox news anchors openly smirk when saying either Clinton's name. Morevoer, there own anchors and reporters have openly conspired to give Republican legislation more air time. I mean that to me is a bias in the actual reporting of the news not found on CNN or even at the NY Times.

As for O'Reilly and that ilk (from both camps) - to say they are not the news is a little misleading. Clearly, people turn to them for the news and believe everything they say. AND there are FAR more of the raging conservative ones than there are raging liberal ones. I mean count them.

Finally, Kerry IS more old school conservative than W and his posse. I mean at least Kerry is for state's rights as opposed to W (FL election, federal def. of marriage, etc.) So, Kerry gets my vote - I men even though I know it will cost me more money in taxes in the end, it is time to pay the piper for W's economic malfeasance.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Rob67

Riiight....I am only commenting on the info you presented...and?

You also commented on the completely false information you presented about Air America bouncing checks and getting kicked off the air. You wouldn't touch my calling it out as bogus with a ten foot pole, though.

Originally Posted by Rob67

I hope the Liberal talk shows go well. I hope they don't fall into the trap of blaming everything wrong in their lives on Bush. That turns most people off. If just blaming Bush for everything is your only argument then you don't have one. Bush will come and go like every other president and the next one will be blamed the same way Bush, Reagan, even Clinton by the far right were.

As opposed to the way conservative radio blames the country's problems on the left-wingers? If that doesn't turn off most people, it certainly won't when it comes from the liberals. However, if you took the time to listen to AA, you'd know it's much more than that; they don't just talk about Shrub and his Hitler-esque reign.

Originally Posted by Rob67

I never heard that...but it's wrong and if he said what you claim, in that context, then he deserved to get fired. Like I said, I don't listen to him. Hate, either from the left or right, clouds rational judgement.

Look for the video, it's everywhere on the net.

Originally Posted by Rob67

Well, if I ever met you I would offer up a hug and buy you a beer. I would even humour your viciousness!! .

Well, I don't touch alcohol, but I'd love an Evian.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by The Tower

"Compassionate conservative" is an oxymoron.

I'll toast to that!!!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by Rob67

AND...the liberal media seems to always put the blame on us and refuses to accept the fact that the blame could come from either themselves or others in the world.

See, that's another point where it goes both ways. I can't recall EVER reading, hearing, or seeing a conservative leader (or even a conservative mouth-piece) truly owning up to a foul-up on the part of Republicans.

If something is wrong, then find a liberal to blame.
I mean, look at how quickly the Republican party jumps to the "blame Clinton" defense. Wow, that's really constructive of them. Blame the guy who's been out of office for four years, and nevermind any mistakes or wrongdoing that has taken place in the years since then.
And how about the twelve years BEFORE Clinton was president? I don't see Republicans owning up to just exactly whose administration it was, that first trained and armed Bin-Laden and his cronies. That's conveniently pushed under the rug.

And the economy? Fahgeddaboudit! Anyone who thinks there was an economic problem during the Reagan/Bush years, are treated as if they're crazy. I've seen plenty of presumably rational Republicans who claim that Reagan was one of the greatest presidents ever, and should have his face on Mount Rushmore for the wonderful things he did for the American people!
And any problems were merely the result of the presidency of that Democrat, Jimmy Carter.

Originally Posted by Rob67

I am all for questioning authority...that's what is so great about this country. We can question it. But, I think there is a respectful and responsible way to go about it. To be honest, the hate comes from the extremes of both sides. AND, sometimes someone on the far left accuses someone who simply disagrees with them as hateful.

But see, that's the problem. I see very little "authority questioning" amongst conservatives.
It's all about status-quo with the Republican party. The rich should stay rich, and the poor should stay poor. Minorities should continue living their lowly lives, and no one should have to care how many people are living at poverty level.

If you're poor or in a minority, forget about getting any help from the Republican party.
They fight against laws that would eliminate discrimination, they fight against creating financial aid for lower-income families and students, etc., etc.

Again, and as always, I am not saying that the Democratic party is perfect. Far from it. But I sure as hell don't want to leave my future in the hands of the Republicans.
Not only won't I be allowed to marry, but I wouldn't be able to afford it anyway!

Originally Posted by Rob67

If you can show me a fiscally conservative, strong foriegn policy Democrat, I'll gladly vote for him/her!!!

Well, many people feel that John Kerry is too conservative, and damn-near a Republican.
Will he be getting your vote?

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by dissention

You also commented on the completely false information you presented about Air America bouncing checks and getting kicked off the air. You wouldn't touch my calling it out as bogus with a ten foot pole, though.

Um, sure I will. I told you what I heard, and that's that. I am sure you spent a lot of time looking into it so I will take your word that it was bogus. Happy?

Originally Posted by dissention

As opposed to the way conservative radio blames the country's problems on the left-wingers? If that doesn't turn off most people, it certainly won't when it comes from the liberals. However, if you took the time to listen to AA, you'd know it's much more than that; they don't just talk about Shrub and his Hitler-esque reign.

If you mean Limbaugh and Hannity, etc...well sure...that's their job. They get paid to give their opinions. But, they spend most of the time talking about issues. And, I am sure the AA network is much more then Bush-Bashing...it won't last long if that's all it is. It's all a double edged sword.

Originally Posted by dissention

Look for the video, it's everywhere on the net.

Again...I'll take your word for it!

Rob

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Rob67

Um, sure I will. I told you what I heard, and that's that. I am sure you spent a lot of time looking into it so I will take your word that it was bogus. Happy?

You don't have to look into it if it comes from The Smudge Report; it'll obviously be bogus.

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Anyways..... I won't speak for anyone but myself. My disgust with conservatives and republicans is absolutely justified. I see no reason on earth why I should hold back from expressing my outrage.

I'm just guessing that you, oh cool Rob, have never been a target for discrimination from the government based on who you are- if you have been, I'm sorry. However, this current administration (not to mention Bush Sr and that awful, awful Reagan) has been so deceptive and so insidious with regard to courting the wealthy, discrimination against homosexuals, destroying the environment, gutting education and the whole Iraq thing that I just cannot believe that any good person would support them in any fashion.

I know that you don't get it and you probably never will. I'm sure there are some decent conservatives out there, but I have yet to meet one. And I come from a VERY conservative family, so I know the score. It's all passive-aggressive. "Compassionate conservative" is an oxymoron. Just because one has a civil demeanor does not guarantee that they are a civil person and vice versa. Republicans LOVE to demonize their opposition by using sleazy tactics- all in an effort to distort and/or deflect away from the real issues.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not a liberal- I'm a libertarian.

Kind of sucks that you have to go through life with so much hate...sad.

Oh..if you mean by "discrimination" the fact that I am still paying for my 4 years of college where others got grants or free rides based on race, then yes I was discriminated against. And, no, I am not complaining.

And, yes...I think I am pretty cool...thanks!!

Rob