Securing our borders - Page 2

strandinthewind · #16 04-26-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

What utter ****. We certainly sat by fine while genocide was occurring in Sudan and Rwanda, along with the UN and many other nations. If people want to talk about how wonderful this country is, fine. It is a great country when it does great things. But let's not delude ourselves as to why this country of ours does these good deeds or turn a blind eye to this country's continued ignoring of genocide and human rights violations. We look out for our best interests in the end.

blah blah blah - we are all ingrates who need to be killed for our apathy

Interestingly, when the US acts, people get pissed off. When we do not act, people get pissed off. So, we might as well do whatever we want and there is no pleasing everyone

If we went into Darfur right now or even at the beginning, I am sure you would find some reason to hate Bush for it even if we did a great job. Thus, the state of political commentary.

I mean you, and others, seem to rejoice on the bad acts and never bring up the good ones. Just an observation

DrummerDeanna · #17 04-26-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

blah blah blah - we are all ingrates who need to be killed for our apathy

Interestingly, when the US acts, people get pissed off. When we do not act, people get pissed off. So, we might as well do whatever we want and there is no pleasing everyone

If we went into Darfur right now or even at the beginning, I am sure you would find some reason to hate Bush for it even if we did a great job. Thus, the state of political commentary.

I mean you, and others, seem to rejoice on the bad acts and never bring up the good ones. Just an observation

Right.

As if we're the only country who has ever done ****ty things...

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

I agree with ya!

Jason, I agree with you too. The mismanagement of funds in this country is atrocious. I sesly hope our next president is good at math. LOL

I agree too....

I do think more needs to be done for our own people- but I also think people need to start doing more for themselves...AND I think there are a lot of people doing great things for the people of this country...it's not enough - but I don't know that it will ever be enough...

dissention · #18 04-26-2005, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Right.

As if we're the only country who has ever done ****ty things...

There's no other country with as much power and force as ours, we're the only superpower. To compare us with other countries in that context is inane. When we do something, it affects the world.

strandinthewind · #19 04-26-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

. . . it's not enough - but I don't know that it will ever be enough...

I agree. I think our current welfare system stifles overall (certainly not in every case - look at Oprah) the drive to do better. I think it also captures people in it and by its design does not allow them to better themselves by getting a part time job. Mary knows way more than I about this, but people finally get a job and then they are cut off after a period of time and they cannot find a place to live, etc. So, they go back into the welfare system. It needs a huge overhaul and IMO it needs to focus not on getting people prematurely off of the rolls, but getting them off forever. Yet, it is a political poison pill if you tinker with it too much because in the transition, people will be effected and those people have nothing to put out as a buffer.

strandinthewind · #20 04-26-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

There's no other country with as much power and force as ours, we're the only superpower. To compare us with other countries in that context is inane. When we do something, it affects the world.

and more times than not it affects it in a good way

Interestingly, and in an attempt to drive your blood pressure through the roof

- couldn't it be argued that the invasion of Iraq was an attempt by the US to stop the genocide there? Certainly SH was doing the same types of things as other places? I get that W and the bozos lied about it and are horrible people, but assuming as history demonstrates that resistence would occur anywhere we asserted our peacekeeping, Iraq from that point of view was a good thing

I am not saying we should have gone or the reasons we went were anything but lies. I am just saying that hopefully, with the US' help, genocide will no longer occur in Iraq, though that possible instance does not excuse the lies since 1992.

dissention · #21 04-26-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

blah blah blah - we are all ingrates who need to be killed for our apathy

Interestingly, when the US acts, people get pissed off. When we do not act, people get pissed off. So, we might as well do whatever we want and there is no pleasing everyone

If we went into Darfur right now or even at the beginning, I am sure you would find some reason to hate Bush for it even if we did a great job. Thus, the state of political commentary.

That's why I was saying we should have been in Darfur immediately, right? Gimme a break. We should have been in there just as we should have been in Rwanda. But we had nothing to gain, so we didn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I mean you, and others, seem to rejoice on the bad acts and never bring up the good ones. Just an observation

If that's what you think, fine. Forgive me if I don't have a flag hanging from my window or a yellow ribbon plastered to the ass of my car. I'm not that dumb that I'll just make a blanket stement of "America is a great country." Such a statement is absurd.

strandinthewind · #22 04-26-2005, 01:57 PM

I am just saying you always talk about the bad things. You never say, "hey that was a good thing," which is hardly on the level of false intent with a plastic flag

- which I would never accuse you of

DrummerDeanna · #23 04-26-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

If that's what you think, fine. Forgive me if I don't have a flag hanging from my window or a yellow ribbon plastered to the ass of my car. I'm not that dumb that I'll just make a blanket stement of "America is a great country." Such a statement is absurd.

Okay - but America IS a great country

I'm not saying it's the greatest - but many here do get opportunities etc that one would not get elsewhere

And I hate this argument - but some of the things you say do beg the question - then why stay here?

if it's such an atrocious place - then why not go elsewhere?

I get that the US has done bad things - but I maintain that other countries have as well...regardless of superpower status....atrocities are atrocities...

dissention · #24 04-26-2005, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

and more times than not it affects it in a good way

Tell that to the millions upon millions who have died because we didn't give a ****. I'm certainly not suggesting that we could prevent everything, but a little bit of effort is in order.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Interestingly, and in an attempt to drive your blood pressure through the roof

- couldn't it be argued that the invasion of Iraq was an attempt by the US to stop the genocide there? Certainly SH was doing the same types of things as other places? I get that W and the bozos lied about it and are horrible people, but assuming as history demonstrates that resistence would occur anywhere we asserted our peacekeeping, Iraq from that point of view was a good thing

I am not saying we should have gone or the reasons we went were anything but lies. I am just saying that hopefully, with the US' help, genocide will no longer occur in Iraq, though that possible instance does not excuse the lies since 1992.

You mean the genocide in Iraq that our country helped to perpetrate by telling the Iraqi's to rise up and rebel? Where were we when they listened to us and did, in fact, rise up and rebel? We were nowhere to be found.

strandinthewind · #25 04-26-2005, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

. . . You mean the genocide in Iraq that our country helped to perpetrate by telling the Iraqi's to rise up and rebel? Where were we when they listened to us and did, in fact, rise up and rebel? We were nowhere to be found.

Well that, but we were not alone and it occured before then. AND - we certainly are there now

strandinthewind · #26 04-26-2005, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Tell that to the millions upon millions who have died because we didn't give a ****. I'm certainly not suggesting that we could prevent everything, but a little bit of effort is in order . . . .

I am not saying we have not been bad. I am just saying that we have helped far more than we have not. A good example is Europe in WWI and Europe and Asia in WWII. Another good example is the aid we current give South America and Africa. Yet, you never ever mention that. It is always a bash on the bad stuff. I know you know about the good stuff. I just think it would not kill ya to mention it istead of the non-stop America bashing

Both exist and I suggest the good we do far outweighs the bad.

dissention · #27 04-26-2005, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Okay - but America IS a great country

That's your opinion. My opinion is that America is a great country when it does great things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

but many here do get opportunities etc that one would not get elsewhere

Yeah, and just look at the people that inhabit this country. They take everything for granted and it's revolting. I'd like to see them live in mud huts in Africa for three days and then tell me how horrible their lives are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

And I hate this argument - but some of the things you say do beg the question - then why stay here?

if it's such an atrocious place - then why not go elsewhere?

Don't put words in my mouth, I never called this country atrocious.

strandinthewind · #28 04-26-2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

. . . Yeah, and just look at the people that inhabit this country. They take everything for granted and it's revolting. I'd like to see them live in mud huts in Africa for three days and then tell me how horrible their lives are . . .

With respect - you are grossly generalizing all Americans. I know lots of people from all walks of life who take nothing for granted.

strandinthewind · #29 04-26-2005, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

That's your opinion. My opinion is that America is a great country when it does great things . . .

So let's hear about those great thing!!!!!

In the end, I am an optimist, which is contrary around here most of the time

dissention · #30 04-26-2005, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

With respect - you are grossly generalizing all Americans. I know lots of people from all walks of life who take nothing for granted.

While you may encounter those types of people, to say that they are the majority of this country is absurd, imo. The people of this country take so many things for granted that it's kind of funny. I bet half of them don't even realize what a luxury it is to have supermarkets; to them, it's just there. They can walk into a store and come out with 87 different sodas, all the meat and produce they want, and whatever else their heart desires. I doubt any of them take the time to think of how incredibly lucky they are to have such a thing. They're so used to it that they don't pay it any mind. And then they get pissed if they don't have a certain type of fish or cheese in stock.